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Game News inXile admit that Torment stretch goal content has been cut, including companions

Maculo

Arcane
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Messages
2,604
Strap Yourselves In Pathfinder: Wrath
It's not even a character, it's a five lines npc and like only one is related to that.

Your favorite merchant from BG2 is probably more of a"character" than that.

That's the point though. The dev's made a character whose sole purpose was to repeat those five lines. Moreover, the lines in question made no god damn sense (why would someone share that with strangers right off the bat?!?). This was not an attempt to write a trans character or even a trans perspective, but rather a pathetic attempt by the devs to appear progressive. It showed a lack of understanding of the setting and the issue they tried to champion.

Going back to what started this conversation, it is inaccurate to say that this controversy arose solely because people were "uncomfortable" with the character,as himmy alleged. It arose because the devs wrote something plainly stupid and refused to accept criticism. Bullshitters caught bullshitting, news at 11.

Edit: Lurker King said it better than I:

The way they treated the games, trying to “make it appropriate to modern sensibilities”, reflects lack of respect for the franchise and cheap opportunism. The way they reacted to fans’ criticisms showed lack of respect for their target audience and cretin activism. If some studio made something similar to “Age of Decadence”, I would be furious.
 

DeepOcean

Arcane
Joined
Nov 8, 2012
Messages
7,405
A terribly written trans minor character. Oughta be precise here. :obviously:
Imagine you had a fantasy game and you find this minor character, a guard:

"Welcome traveler."
Tell me your story, guard.
"When I was a little kid, my mom told me I had a little dick, the other kids heard that and kept pestering me, "Little dick!", "Little dick!", I always dreamt of having a big dick and looked at the stars asking the gods for a favor, the gods told me that if I fucked enough sheep, I will get a horse size dick."

What you would think? "Who was the fucking degenerate that wrote this?" It would make any difference if he wasn't an heterosexual and a tranny instead? "Look player, I know you are worried about dragons, evil mages and that stuff but this person here,, she cut her own dick... isn't that amazing? Isn't it indredible? She cut her own dick! If a SJW wrote the Game of Thrones, Varys would spend a whole chapter crying how this character had his dick cut and how a courageous being he was instead of being a smart asshole what is actually what is important. You had a fucking dwarf, a man without a dick, homosexuals and this stuff and why nobody freak out? Because it wasn't written by coward, no talent writers that hide behind political agenda.
 

Maculo

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Joined
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Messages
2,604
Strap Yourselves In Pathfinder: Wrath
Imagine you had a fantasy game and you find this minor character, a guard:

"Welcome traveler."
"Greetin-"
"When I was a little kid, my mom told me I had a little dick, the other kids heard that and kept pestering me, "Little dick!", "Little dick!", I always dreamt of having a big dick and looked at the stars asking the gods for a favor, the gods told me that if I fucked enough sheep, I will get a horse size dick."
"That's so brave and beautiful. Thanks for sharing."

Fixed for accuracy.
 
Unwanted

Charles Eli Cheese

Neckbeard Shitlord
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Jewed by inanatron the crybaby faggot
A terribly written trans minor character. Oughta be precise here. :obviously:
Imagine you had a fantasy game and you find this minor character, a guard:

"Welcome traveler."
Tell me your story, guard.
"When I was a little kid, my mom told me I had a little dick, the other kids heard that and kept pestering me, "Little dick!", "Little dick!", I always dreamt of having a big dick and looked at the stars asking the gods for a favor, the gods told me that if I fucked enough sheep, I will get a horse size dick."

What you would think? "Who was the fucking degenerate that wrote this?" It would make any difference if he wasn't an heterosexual and a tranny instead? "Look player, I know you are worried about dragons, evil mages and that stuff but this person here,, she cut her own dick... isn't that amazing? Isn't it indredible? She cut her own dick! If a SJW wrote the Game of Thrones, Varys would spend a whole chapter crying how this character had his dick cut and how a courageous being he was instead of being a smart asshole what is actually what is important. You had a fucking dwarf, a man without a dick, homosexuals and this stuff and why nobody freak out? Because it wasn't written by coward, no talent writers that hide behind political agenda.

Sure it was, that show is pure shit after the first few seasons, but yeah the original stuff is good.
 
Joined
Jan 7, 2017
Messages
1,489
"Welcome traveler."
Tell me your story, guard.
"When I was a little kid, my mom told me I had a little dick, the other kids heard that and kept pestering me, "Little dick!", "Little dick!", I always dreamt of having a big dick and looked at the stars asking the gods for a favor, the gods told me that if I fucked enough sheep, I will get a horse size dick."

You give those SOBs too much credit, they don't have the talent to come up with something as ludicrous as that (they'd put something about how his... her... its father fucked it in the ass repeatedly with a sandpaper condom, but it wasn't the abrasions that hurt, but the patriarchy and the male privilege and so on and so forth). Now that line you wrote is something I would include in a game!

I'd also include The Temple of Goa Tse as a stretch goal, it doesn't get any stretchier than that - you could fit an aircraft carrier in there! It'd be a bowling alley for tranny gnomes in disguise (the bowling alley would be in disguise, not the gnomes). It's important to include stuff about made-up genders and hemorrhoid-infested cornholes these days in about any medium imaginable, else those kids without a job and an income will not spend the money they don't have in my game.
 

almondblight

Arcane
Joined
Aug 10, 2004
Messages
2,649
Dragonfall, Expeditions: Conquistador, SitS, Starcrawlers, Dex, Telepath Tactics, Unrest, Legends of Eisenwald, Paper Sorcerer, PoE, D:OS, FTL, Consortium, Kim. Even if you dislike some of those, it's not a bad list for 5 years. If you're including crowdfunding in general, than you're going to include games like AoD, Underrail, and Battle Bros. Might not be a renaissance, but it's still a lot better than what we were getting before.

I'm also not sure RPGs crowd out other RPGs as much as they crowd in. If you are playing WoW, you're probably not playing another MMORPG. But if you play Fallout and enjoy it, there's a good chance you'll look for more games like it. Just look at the threads here asking for recommendations to find examples of that.
 
Self-Ejected

Lurker King

Self-Ejected
The Real Fanboy
Joined
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Messages
1,865,419
Crowdfunding in general my ass. Only if you consider early acess as crowdfunding, LOL.

Hey, an Administrator, you retard. I saw you saying on shoutbox that Underrail was funded on kickstarter. Not, it wasn't.
 

Malpercio

Arcane
Joined
Dec 8, 2011
Messages
1,534
Erm, that's the whole point (among the sane critics)? The "character" only exists to be a contrived soapbox.

I dunno, NPC telling your their life story is nothing unusual. This one is a cleric NPC that says some lines about her name if you bother to ask.

Like it or not, it's certainly not worth sperging about the whole thing in every damn discussion, even months later. You become more annoying than that one line of text.
 

Saduj

Arcane
Joined
Aug 26, 2012
Messages
2,604
Why thank you mother, I had no idea Kickstarters were speculative and could fail. Could you wag your finger a little harder plz?

You and the rest of the "everything is fine" community keep missing the point. We know shit happens. We can be extremely understanding of it if the people to whom it happens are up-front about it.

What I find utterly unacceptable is the attitude that if someone reneges on a promise they made to you, it's your fault, not theirs. If someone lies to you, it's your fault, not theirs.

There is this thing called "integrity." Keeping your promises to the best of your ability, and doing your best to make amends if you fail. Not lying. Not betraying a trust. Not blabbing about stuff that you were told in confidence. I respect people – and organisations, groups, communities etc. – who have it, and don't respect those who don't. That's why I'm pissed off at inXile about this, the Toy and the Oasis be damned.

I didn't wag my finger at anyone. Nor did I say inXIle's behavior has been OK and everything is fine. You'd have to be retarded to read what I wrote and think that.

I mentioned kickstarters being a gamble to support my opinion that features being cut isn't always the result of scumbag behavior. I also said that inXile's behavior indicates that the exception doesn't apply in this case. If you disagree with any or all of that, fine. But shove your idiotic straw man up your ass. Misrepresenting what I said to me isn't exactly a convincing lie.
 
Last edited:

Nihiliste

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Jan 16, 2014
Messages
2,998
inXile is a garbage company.

I foolishly contributed to this kickstarter, but wised up and haven't given them a penny since, and won't be, ever.
 

Kev Inkline

(devious)
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Joined
Nov 17, 2015
Messages
5,580
A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
my partial refund request hasn't elicited a response. I must be in a queue.
:lol:
TBF, mine was handled really fast, each mail was answered within hours, one on saturday. I feel remorse and almost regret for refunding, but I think I'll allocate the funds received to supporting indies/CP2077 which makes me feel a bit better.
 

Lady_Error

█▓▒░ ░▒▓█
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Joined
Oct 14, 2012
Messages
1,879,250
inXile is a garbage company.

I foolishly contributed to this kickstarter, but wised up and haven't given them a penny since, and won't be, ever.

Like there are a TON of companies delivering better RPG's out there?

I quite liked Wasteland 2. I like what I've seen of Torment and Bard's Tale 4 so far and look forward to both. I don't give a shit about their public relations.
 

Somberlain

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Zionist Agent
Joined
Mar 5, 2012
Messages
6,202
Location
Basement
I feel remorse and almost regret for refunding, but I think I'll allocate the funds received to supporting indies/CP2077 which makes me feel a bit better.

Say no to inEptile.


Noregret_box_art.jpg


76dc939c01b0c6e7356ab7c225097cc4.jpg
 

Prime Junta

Guest
Did you realize a certain pattern here? Of all the above problems, apologists just ignore all the problems that involve incompetence and dishonesty from the developer and try to pretend is all about the tranny. People get offended because their game fucking suck and they tought be politically inclusive was a bigger priority than making a good game.

Poor Mizhena does get a lot more attention here than your points 2-4. Exhibit A, this thread. (For the record, I didn't buy or play SoD, largely because of those reasons.)

(inXile just accepted my refund request BTW)
 

tormund

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Aug 15, 2015
Messages
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Location
Penetrating the underrail
Also, how does Neogaf fit into this? They are a Sony advertising board, so why are they discussing pc games? Won't that interfere with sucking off Sony and its products? Sounds like they are slacking over there. Or, do they still believe InXile can deliver a sound console port :lol:
Eh, from around 2010 onwards they became one of premier "NuPC MastarRace" strongholds... thanks solely to the cheapness of PC games and superiors visuals and framerate of PC ports, rather than interest in PC gaming as such or in its other benefits. Basically, they are one of the homes of that particular breed of PC gamers that is interested solely in playing console ports with higher resolutions and smooth framerate, with minimal-to-nonexistent interest in classic PC games or newer PC-focused titles (with few notable exceptions).
 

LESS T_T

Arcane
Joined
Oct 5, 2012
Messages
13,582
Codex 2014
Now Eurogamer, with comments and apology from Colin McComb: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2017-01-31-torment-tides-of-numenera-apology-stretch-goals

Torment: Tides of Numenera dev issues apology for missed stretch goals
"We should have communicated the cuts earlier."

Torment: Tides of Numenera developer inXile has issued an apology, following the discovery that certain stretch goals promised in the game's then-record-breaking 2013 crowdfunding campaign have not materialised.

The discovery was made using leaked Achievements from the final game, due 28th February on PC, PS4 and Xbox One. The most notable omissions include missing companions - I'll discuss those in detail further down, underneath a statement inXile has sent me, so I can keep any potential spoilers out of the way - and no Italian language support. If you are an Italian backer and this is a deal-breaker you can now claim a refund.

But the most glaring issue is not the missing content - which some inXile staff members have tried to explain on the company's forum and on Reddit - but that backers, people who funded the game, are only now finding out, off the back of their own detective work no less. Why didn't inXile say something before?

Torment: Tides of Numenera creative lead Colin McComb replied.

"We did have to cut some content, and had to make some difficult decisions based on lengthy internal prototyping, budgeting, and scheduling considerations," he told me. "Some of our initial ideas didn't pan out as we had hoped, and some of them would have cost us content that we felt was more important for the overall experience of the game. Game development is never a straight line, and it's extraordinarily rare for a project to go unchanged from vision to completion.

"We should have communicated the cuts earlier," he added, "when they happened. Unfortunately, because we were busy finishing and polishing the game, we neglected to reach out to our community and explain the changes that were necessary. Please know that we absolutely and sincerely apologise to our backers for that lack of communication.

"We're extraordinarily grateful to all our backers who made it possible for us to get this far. We are currently considering ways to integrate ideas that didn't make it into the initial launch, and we promise that any potential future expansions or content will be made available for free to all backers."

The emphasis above is mine - I didn't want you to miss that point. Potential spoilers follow.

Specifically, Achievements note six companions, but the Kickstarter campaign still clearly shows stretch goals promising at least eight, maybe nine. There were new companions promised at the $2m, $2.5m, $3m and $3.5m markers, and the $3m milestone noted there were seven total companions at that point. But in the final game there only appear to be six.

It's hard to know which companions were cut, as two of them were a secret, but it looks like Toy, a living ball of goo that changes appearance based on its master's desires, won't make it either, which is a shame.

"The companion roster has been slightly reduced from our initial plans," wrote inXile staffer "sear" on Reddit.

"During development, we found that the more far reaching and reactive our companions were, the better they felt and the more justice it did to the original Planescape: Torment. This trade-off meant we were able to add more companion conversations, banter, voice-over, quests, and story endings. We did not want to leave some companions feeling shallow, with storylines that felt incomplete, or be forced to shove them into the late game.

"That said," sear added, "we certainly haven't shut the door on Torment's development. We still have a lot of early work done on other companions and are open to continuing to work on the game. We can say that any DLCs or expansions that we put out will always be free to our backers of that game, so there is no need to worry about paying for any additional content in Torment."

The stretch goal announcing the Oasis as a second city hub also appears to have been missed, although Colin McComb (and sear, separately) explained that was because the Bloom, the living city that straddles dimensions, had grown to become that second city hub instead.

"During the game's development, there were some unexpected elements of the game that, for the sake of the storyline and gameplay, grew in size and scope," McComb said. "The game has over 1.2m words, and features many of the stretch goals we detailed earlier on - the Ascension, the expanded Bloom that turned into our second city hub, cults like the Dendra O'hur and Children of the Endless Gate."

Sear added: "Despite being one of the earliest locations we showed, the Bloom was originally intended to be smaller than it ended up being. Though we initially planned for the Oasis to be our second major story hub, over time our fascination with the Bloom's darker, more Tormenty feel, led to it being recast as the game's second major city hub instead. We felt creatively this was the right thing to do, and the change did not shorten the gameplay experience."

The other major omission is the crafting of numenera, the game's magical, mysterious, equippable, objects.

Sear tackled this on the inXile forum: "The main one that I haven't seen mentioned, but should address, is crafting. During development, it became very clear that a traditional crafting system wasn't meshing. We had some early design done, but everything ended up feeling like an MMO-style system, and that just didn't fit Torment's gameplay.

"Instead," sear said, "we repurposed those resources, adding significantly more and better Cyphers and Artifacts to the game. We also added some elements that are thematically in line with crafting, like surgical procedures, companion armor upgrades, and essences."

Torment: Tides of Numenera is a spiritual successor to Planescape: Torment, one of the most revered computer role-playing games of all time. It plumbed philosophical depths other games did not, and was unusual in a way other games weren't. Torment: Tides of Numenera is exactly the same in that regard, but differs in that unlike Planescape it is not based in a Dungeons & Dragons setting but in the new setting of Numenera instead.
 

Jarpie

Arcane
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Joined
Oct 30, 2009
Messages
6,733
Codex 2012 MCA
Now Eurogamer, with comments and apology from Colin McComb: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2017-01-31-torment-tides-of-numenera-apology-stretch-goals

Torment: Tides of Numenera dev issues apology for missed stretch goals
"We should have communicated the cuts earlier."

Torment: Tides of Numenera developer inXile has issued an apology, following the discovery that certain stretch goals promised in the game's then-record-breaking 2013 crowdfunding campaign have not materialised.

The discovery was made using leaked Achievements from the final game, due 28th February on PC, PS4 and Xbox One. The most notable omissions include missing companions - I'll discuss those in detail further down, underneath a statement inXile has sent me, so I can keep any potential spoilers out of the way - and no Italian language support. If you are an Italian backer and this is a deal-breaker you can now claim a refund.

But the most glaring issue is not the missing content - which some inXile staff members have tried to explain on the company's forum and on Reddit - but that backers, people who funded the game, are only now finding out, off the back of their own detective work no less. Why didn't inXile say something before?

Torment: Tides of Numenera creative lead Colin McComb replied.

"We did have to cut some content, and had to make some difficult decisions based on lengthy internal prototyping, budgeting, and scheduling considerations," he told me. "Some of our initial ideas didn't pan out as we had hoped, and some of them would have cost us content that we felt was more important for the overall experience of the game. Game development is never a straight line, and it's extraordinarily rare for a project to go unchanged from vision to completion.

"We should have communicated the cuts earlier," he added, "when they happened. Unfortunately, because we were busy finishing and polishing the game, we neglected to reach out to our community and explain the changes that were necessary. Please know that we absolutely and sincerely apologise to our backers for that lack of communication.

"We're extraordinarily grateful to all our backers who made it possible for us to get this far. We are currently considering ways to integrate ideas that didn't make it into the initial launch, and we promise that any potential future expansions or content will be made available for free to all backers."

The emphasis above is mine - I didn't want you to miss that point. Potential spoilers follow.

Specifically, Achievements note six companions, but the Kickstarter campaign still clearly shows stretch goals promising at least eight, maybe nine. There were new companions promised at the $2m, $2.5m, $3m and $3.5m markers, and the $3m milestone noted there were seven total companions at that point. But in the final game there only appear to be six.

It's hard to know which companions were cut, as two of them were a secret, but it looks like Toy, a living ball of goo that changes appearance based on its master's desires, won't make it either, which is a shame.

"The companion roster has been slightly reduced from our initial plans," wrote inXile staffer "sear" on Reddit.

"During development, we found that the more far reaching and reactive our companions were, the better they felt and the more justice it did to the original Planescape: Torment. This trade-off meant we were able to add more companion conversations, banter, voice-over, quests, and story endings. We did not want to leave some companions feeling shallow, with storylines that felt incomplete, or be forced to shove them into the late game.

"That said," sear added, "we certainly haven't shut the door on Torment's development. We still have a lot of early work done on other companions and are open to continuing to work on the game. We can say that any DLCs or expansions that we put out will always be free to our backers of that game, so there is no need to worry about paying for any additional content in Torment."

The stretch goal announcing the Oasis as a second city hub also appears to have been missed, although Colin McComb (and sear, separately) explained that was because the Bloom, the living city that straddles dimensions, had grown to become that second city hub instead.

"During the game's development, there were some unexpected elements of the game that, for the sake of the storyline and gameplay, grew in size and scope," McComb said. "The game has over 1.2m words, and features many of the stretch goals we detailed earlier on - the Ascension, the expanded Bloom that turned into our second city hub, cults like the Dendra O'hur and Children of the Endless Gate."

Sear added: "Despite being one of the earliest locations we showed, the Bloom was originally intended to be smaller than it ended up being. Though we initially planned for the Oasis to be our second major story hub, over time our fascination with the Bloom's darker, more Tormenty feel, led to it being recast as the game's second major city hub instead. We felt creatively this was the right thing to do, and the change did not shorten the gameplay experience."

The other major omission is the crafting of numenera, the game's magical, mysterious, equippable, objects.

Sear tackled this on the inXile forum: "The main one that I haven't seen mentioned, but should address, is crafting. During development, it became very clear that a traditional crafting system wasn't meshing. We had some early design done, but everything ended up feeling like an MMO-style system, and that just didn't fit Torment's gameplay.

"Instead," sear said, "we repurposed those resources, adding significantly more and better Cyphers and Artifacts to the game. We also added some elements that are thematically in line with crafting, like surgical procedures, companion armor upgrades, and essences."

Torment: Tides of Numenera is a spiritual successor to Planescape: Torment, one of the most revered computer role-playing games of all time. It plumbed philosophical depths other games did not, and was unusual in a way other games weren't. Torment: Tides of Numenera is exactly the same in that regard, but differs in that unlike Planescape it is not based in a Dungeons & Dragons setting but in the new setting of Numenera instead.

It's too late to apologize after you've gotten caught trying to lie or hide shit. "We should've communicated when the cuts were made", no fucking shit Sherlock, people have been asking about the companions and cuts for at least couple weeks if not more and they only admitted it after the achievements were revealed. Colin McComb cares more about bitching about Trump in fucking twatter than communicating with their backers. We now see where their priorities lay. I hope people wouldn't let this go but I don't hold high hopes.
 

duanth123

Arcane
Joined
Mar 22, 2008
Messages
822
Location
This island earth
Unfortunately, because we were busy finishing and polishing the game, we neglected to reach out to our community and explain the changes that were necessary.

This, in particular, is a pretty bold lie.

Reminder that just 7 days ago InXile made a media blitz on Torment, talking to the press about how amazing they are at "open development":
 

undecaf

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Jun 4, 2010
Messages
3,528
Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2
I wonder what eventually drove them to be like this. I remember they used to be OK a couple of years back, posting here and all.
 

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