Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

Incline Ion Fury (formerly Ion Maiden) - Build Engine powered FPS by Duke Nukem 3D mappers - now with Aftershock DLC

PEACH

Arbiter
Joined
Jan 22, 2017
Messages
286
That's good to hear, I loved the preview levels but the current 'Hard' equivalent is really underwhelming. I don't expect it to be on par with Blood on Extra Crispy, but it'd be nice if a shitty player like me couldn't breeze through carelessly with nearly constant full hp/armour
 

SharkClub

Prophet
Patron
Joined
May 27, 2010
Messages
1,584
Strap Yourselves In
Despite my criticisms about the difficulty in my previous post I'm pretty sure I'm just addicted to this game now. It has like 2 levels and a boss... and I'm so into it I've started speedrunning it because that's at least challenging. As I said before I like pretty much everything else about it so I actually can't fucking wait to play the game when it's finished and has content as well as more difficulty modes. Major incline on the horizon as far as the core gameplay and level design goes, if the preview is anything to go by. Not just a "retro fps" poser like fucking STRAFE or Gibhard. I have played DUSK and while I enjoy it I'm pretty sure Ion Maiden is going to turn out the better game if this demo is anything to go by.
 
Self-Ejected

unfairlight

Self-Ejected
Joined
Aug 20, 2017
Messages
4,092
I don't really see any reason to not just throw on a good megawad with a gameplay wad I like in Doom instead. Not too interested in even more all style and little to no substance "retro" shit like this, last year was filled to the brim with it.
 
Self-Ejected

unfairlight

Self-Ejected
Joined
Aug 20, 2017
Messages
4,092
Also, modern 3D realms is essentially a shitware and scam company. I wouldn't really keep my hopes high personally.
 

Hines

Savant
Joined
Jan 26, 2017
Messages
258
Also, modern 3D realms is essentially a shitware and scam company. I wouldn't really keep my hopes high personally.
Modern 3D Realms are publishing and funding the game with Voidpoint handling development duties on Ion Maiden. There's no denying the latter's a talented group, who understand what made Build shooters work. The reveal trailer shows a few areas and weapons that are not featured in the preview release, so I don't think there's any reason to doubt the game won't make it out of early access.
 
Self-Ejected

unfairlight

Self-Ejected
Joined
Aug 20, 2017
Messages
4,092
This is so early, you cannot in any way accurately predict if a game will make it out of EA so early into a project.
 

Hines

Savant
Joined
Jan 26, 2017
Messages
258
This is so early, you cannot in any way accurately predict if a game will make it out of EA so early into a project.
But it's not early. The game has been in development for years. It was announced before Bombshell released, and the team are being paid to improve EDuke32, which some team members have worked on for over a decade, so they're not going to squander this opportunity by letting the project wither away in early access.
 
Joined
May 5, 2014
Messages
1,677
capt0005.png
 

Astral Rag

Arcane
Joined
Feb 1, 2012
Messages
7,771
I don't really see any reason to not just throw on a good megawad with a gameplay wad I like in Doom instead. Not too interested in even more all style and little to no substance "retro" shit like this, last year was filled to the brim with it.

This is no cheap retro shit, this is a proper Build game.
 
Self-Ejected

unfairlight

Self-Ejected
Joined
Aug 20, 2017
Messages
4,092
I don't really see any reason to not just throw on a good megawad with a gameplay wad I like in Doom instead. Not too interested in even more all style and little to no substance "retro" shit like this, last year was filled to the brim with it.

This is no cheap retro shit, this is a proper Build game.
Yeah, so is Doom. So I repeat my point, why should I pay 20 euros for a game that may or may not get finished when
1. Doom and a source port is free
2. Doom has 20 years worth of mods, levelpacks, megawads and TCs
3. Doom is the same thing at it's core gameplay.
So I can buy it just for the gimmick that it's a Build engine game in 2018? Sorry, but I am not a retard.
 

Ash

Arcane
Joined
Oct 16, 2015
Messages
7,055
I don't really see any reason to not just throw on a good megawad with a gameplay wad I like in Doom instead. Not too interested in even more all style and little to no substance "retro" shit like this, last year was filled to the brim with it.

This is no cheap retro shit, this is a proper Build game.
Yeah, so is Doom. So I repeat my point, why should I pay 20 euros for a game that may or may not get finished when
1. Doom and a source port is free
2. Doom has 20 years worth of mods, levelpacks, megawads and TCs
3. Doom is the same thing at it's core gameplay.
So I can buy it just for the gimmick that it's a Build engine game in 2018? Sorry, but I am not a retard.

Build engine shooters were an evolution of the Doom design formula in many ways:

-Extended interactivity with the environment, and how this plays into gameplay e.g blasting cracked walls, breaking hydrants for a drink, browsing security cameras to get a heads up of what lies in wait.
-Basic inventory system.
-Vertical usage in level design, and notable emphasis on platforming gameplay. Doom had these things in VERY limited form and it extends to the mod community too.
-Swimming.
-Full mouselook support.
-More elaborate (yet still non-intrusive) scripted events.
-More personality via Duke talk and more detailed art direction. Even minor environmental storytelling e.g from the environment we can piece together that Duke is something of a celebrity. And that the Aliens like to do something...alieny to human women, god knows what but it involves imprisonment in biomass/tentacles and is most likely of a sexual nature. :D

However, they devolved slightly in one key way: combat and enemy design. Too much hitscan goddamn it, and the combat was just not quite the polished and clever state Doom was in general (e.g projectiles are hard to see in the build games).

Ion Maiden is likely to have unique key traits and style of its own too, that make it worth exploring instead of playing Nukem 3D mods.
Furthermore, old school incline should always be supported with few exceptions.

But really, why not play both? I've played a shitload of Doom wads, kinda sick of it of late, but I'll be returning to the game at some point.

That's a point, does Ion Maiden have swimming? Seems like it has some optional platforming at least, but I bet they won't have the balls to make in mandatory, such as the spinning cogs in Duke Nukem 3D Episode 1 level 3: Death Row. Also why no inventory system? Jetpacking in Nukem 3D was so badass.
 
Last edited:

Darth Roxor

Rattus Iratus
Staff Member
Joined
May 29, 2008
Messages
1,879,059
Location
Djibouti
Too much hitscan goddamn it, the combat was just not quite the polished state Doom was.

Except Doom already declined itself on this particular front first.

1707133-heavy_weap.png


fuck these sons of bitches and all the monster closets they were put into
 
Joined
Dec 1, 2013
Messages
452
I don't really see any reason to not just throw on a good megawad with a gameplay wad I like in Doom instead. Not too interested in even more all style and little to no substance "retro" shit like this, last year was filled to the brim with it.

This is no cheap retro shit, this is a proper Build game.
Yeah, so is Doom. So I repeat my point, why should I pay 20 euros for a game that may or may not get finished when
1. Doom and a source port is free
2. Doom has 20 years worth of mods, levelpacks, megawads and TCs
3. Doom is the same thing at it's core gameplay.
So I can buy it just for the gimmick that it's a Build engine game in 2018? Sorry, but I am not a retard.

If we don't support the :incline:, then all we'll get is :decline:. Another thing you are overlooking is that the Doom and Build families of games actually offer very different approaches to design and gameplay. It might seem gratuitous to pay for a Doom TC when the Doom community is still alive and kicking and continues to produce high-quality content for free, but on the Build side of things, there hasn't been much activity since the end of the 90s. A new Build game therefore is a very welcome contribution and, to me, certainly worth my money.

That being said, I still oppose this strange model of payed beta access that's so popular these days. I will buy the game once it's complete and finished, but if they want my help with debugging incomplete, buggy pre-release code they better pay me.
 

Ash

Arcane
Joined
Oct 16, 2015
Messages
7,055
Lol you have the Todd Howard Modd I see :lol:

thanks for confirmation.

Edit: oh, you're the creator of that mod.

If we don't support the :incline:, then all we'll get is :decline:.

That being said, I still oppose this strange model of payed beta access that's so popular these days. I will buy the game once it's complete and finished, but if they want my help with debugging incomplete, buggy pre-release code they better pay me.

Agree.

Too much hitscan goddamn it, the combat was just not quite the polished state Doom was.

Except Doom already declined itself on this particular front first.

fuck these sons of bitches and all the monster closets they were put into

No! Doom had it perfect. 60% projectile, 20% melee, 20% hitscan. Hitscan (or very, very fast projectile bullets) is good for further diversity of combat engagements and enemy placement, you just can't overdo it. Sadly every game since added more and more hitscan and now shooter combat is almost entirely hitscan :/
 
Last edited:
Self-Ejected

unfairlight

Self-Ejected
Joined
Aug 20, 2017
Messages
4,092
I don't really see any reason to not just throw on a good megawad with a gameplay wad I like in Doom instead. Not too interested in even more all style and little to no substance "retro" shit like this, last year was filled to the brim with it.

This is no cheap retro shit, this is a proper Build game.
Yeah, so is Doom. So I repeat my point, why should I pay 20 euros for a game that may or may not get finished when
1. Doom and a source port is free
2. Doom has 20 years worth of mods, levelpacks, megawads and TCs
3. Doom is the same thing at it's core gameplay.
So I can buy it just for the gimmick that it's a Build engine game in 2018? Sorry, but I am not a retard.

If we don't support the :incline:, then all we'll get is :decline:. Another thing you are overlooking is that the Doom and Build families of games actually offer very different approaches to design and gameplay. It might seem gratuitous to pay for a Doom TC when the Doom community is still alive and kicking and continues to produce high-quality content for free, but on the Build side of things, there hasn't been much activity since the end of the 90s. A new Build game therefore is a very welcome contribution and, to me, certainly worth my money.

That being said, I still oppose this strange model of payed beta access that's so popular these days. I will buy the game once it's complete and finished, but if they want my help with debugging incomplete, buggy pre-release code they better pay me.

Yes, a level pack and a reskin is such incline. Bought 10 copies for Amiga 1200. There's more 'incline' games than this, and to call something that didn't evolve essentially in the slightest compared to the 20 year old games it's copying 'incline' is frankly fucking retarded. The entire game is a fucking gimmick you retards bought up just because LOL RETRO NOSTALGIA XDDD LETS ALL BUY OVERPRICED SHIT RESKINS.
 

Ash

Arcane
Joined
Oct 16, 2015
Messages
7,055
I've always said, when gaming gets the (gameplay) quality back, only then will I give a shit about innovation. This is us slowly and unsurely getting quality back.

Also the game is bound to have minor innovations: innovative aspects of level design, innovative aspects of weapon design (bowling bombs) and so on. The whole thing is new aside from the core design formula, and said formula is something we love so :incline:
 
Last edited:

Ash

Arcane
Joined
Oct 16, 2015
Messages
7,055
They're the same game. Doom 2 was a megawad with one extra gun and a few extra enemies. It was a OVERPRICED RESKIN WHY THE FUCK YOU BUY!?

:positive:

I get your point, the chaingunners were added in D2 (if I recall), but I like the role they serve personally. As long as their placement isn't stupid (100 chaingunners in a monster closet).

Regarding difficulty, the Devs say they've yet to implement a Damn Im Good/Nightmare difficulty.

Won't save the challenge if they insist on retaining their ridiculous 26 secrets per level approach. I seriously hope they just change their approach and do that on the first level/s only. Or the intent is for a portion to be found near-mandatory. After all, the first few levels are meant to be the easiest.
 
Last edited:

SharkClub

Prophet
Patron
Joined
May 27, 2010
Messages
1,584
Strap Yourselves In
Anyone who thinks BUILD engine fps games are "the same as playing a Doom wad" is clearly retarded and obviously hasn't played many BUILD fps games.

I have played Duke 3D and all its expansions, Shadow Warrior and all its expansions, Blood and all its expansions, Redneck Rampage and its expansion + sequel, Witchaven, PowerSlave (PC), whatever. The engine is capable of things that are extremely different to what you find in a standard Doom wad. BUILD games' level design has always been about realistic environments and littering them with tons of small details and interactive objects, as well as elaborate (by mid 90's standards) scripted setpieces in the form of earthquakes/explosions/aeroplanes moving/trains moving/ships moving/driveable vehicles, etc. (looks to me like Ion Maiden is going to continue this trend, especially since it's built on eDuke32's BUILD engine source port) and while that sort of thing might be a bit more common nowadays with ZDoom and various other expansions of the idtech 1 engine that is not at all what Doom, Doom 2 or Heretic was known for. The closest it gets with an official title in the idtech 1 engine is HeXen having scripted earthquakes and jumping (lol), HacX having a wider array of interactive/destroyable objects (which is a bare minimum standard in any BUILD game) and Strife having more advanced scripting with "rpg mechanics", non-hostiles, """stealth""", alarms and whatnot.

Doom is great and all but BUILD engine games have always had much more flavor, personality and complexity to them. Doom was there to set the standard, Doom 2 was a poor followup with rushed, unattractive level design that was only rectified once modders came and made Final Doom but while that was going on in 1996, 3DRealms were doing bigger and better things with BUILD.

Won't save the challenge if they insist on retaining their ridiculous 26 secrets per level approach. I seriously hope they just change their approach and do that on the first level/s only. Or the intent is for a portion to be found near-mandatory. After all, the first few levels are meant to be the easiest.
I don't think this would be a problem if the game gets usable items and powerups in the future to replace having every secret filled to the brim with armor and health, but I don't know what the plan is for that.
 
Last edited:
Self-Ejected

unfairlight

Self-Ejected
Joined
Aug 20, 2017
Messages
4,092
So tl;dr is exactly my point, style over substance. You prefer Build and 3D realms because it has the pretty setpieces and interactive buttans on the map.
 

SharkClub

Prophet
Patron
Joined
May 27, 2010
Messages
1,584
Strap Yourselves In
So tl;dr is exactly my point, style over substance. You prefer Build and 3D realms because it has the pretty setpieces and interactive buttans on the map.
Yes because level design incorporating vehicles, moving playing areas that can kill you if you fall off them, earthquakes that drastically change the level design, cracked walls and manholes you can blow open and get into new areas through, swimming and underwater areas, fall damage, the true vertical elements of using jetpacks, high jump boots or jumping in general for exploration are all style and no substance. How about try educating yourself on these games before pretending to be the authority on them, retarded shitposter.
 
Last edited:
Self-Ejected

unfairlight

Self-Ejected
Joined
Aug 20, 2017
Messages
4,092
moving playing areas that can kill you if you fall off them
There were levels in Doom 2 that dropped you in pits where you died too IIRC.

earthquakes that drastically change the level design
Once every 5 levels. Woah. Gamechanging.

cracked walls and manholes you can blow open and get into new areas through
Same thing as just pressing E on a secret wall to open it, except it's something you shoot. Once more, style over substance.

fall damage
Not really a positive and not something that matters in gameplay most of the time.

the true vertical elements of using jetpacks
The one valid point you have yet. It was somewhat cool during those times.

high jump boots or jumping in general
Somewhat valid but it became primitive basically the second quake came out which made vertical movement far more interesting alone.

How about try educating yourself on these games before pretending to be the authority on them, retarded shitposter.
How about you stop being such a uppity bitch and go write some more 5000 character posts telling people why they are wrong on the subjective matter of not liking PUGs in a game with 50 players.
 

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Back
Top Bottom