Is MotB worth it...

[MetalCraze]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztwHygX0qjs
TNO brings peace to Canceri

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6Bpg2MrG3M
TNO talks his way through the Negative Plane

These are just two quick results from youtube search for "pst combat" - he totally kills only 2 characters there. Now go troll somewhere else

 

[Black Cat]

@ Dumb Bitch

Uh, the last half of the game is more or less Diablo with Nameless Ones and worse gameplay, and before the game is in no way lacking encounters where you do not even get the chance to talk, only a bunch of guys or thingies with red circles around their feet who run at you screaming bloody murder and stuff.

And, really, when combat sucks a lot of awful, unhealty looking suckable thingies even a lone fight would be too much combat, just like when combat is cool and amazing you can throw all the combat you want my way and i will be in heavenly bliss.

Oh, screw me, the topic review thingie updated. So, like, what Metalcraze said and stuff, yeah.

 

[Dumb Bitch]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztwHygX0qjs
TNO brings peace to Canceri

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6Bpg2MrG3M
TNO talks his way through the Negative Plane

This is late game. What about '100s of enemies rushing at you in Sigil'?

 

[MetalCraze]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztwHygX0qjs
TNO brings peace to Canceri

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6Bpg2MrG3M
TNO talks his way through the Negative Plane

This is late game. What about '100s of enemies rushing at you in Sigil'?

Valley of Sharp Angles (or whatever was its name), that Necropolis-like dungeon with the necro-boss in the end, lots of random thugs deciding to attack you etc. But I imagine you like totally used your diplomatic powers there and avoided all of it. Hey and want the special offer with the Modron character? Suffer through lots of rooms full of terribad combat too.

And suddenly this is a late game that is with combat - didn't you say there was no combat at all only 2 characters to kill?

 

[VentilatorOfDoom]

thugs on the street rushing at you, and enough quests that involve combat too.

 

[Dumb Bitch]

@ Dumb Bitch

Uh, the last half of the game is more or less Diablo with Nameless Ones and worse gameplay, and before the game is in no way lacking encounters where you do not even get the chance to talk, only a bunch of guys or thingies with red circles around their feet who run at you screaming bloody murder and stuff.

I'm not sure if you're aware, but:
1. TNO can't die, he immediately gets resurrected when he loses all health.
2. When a party member reaches the exit, the whole party gets teleported with him.

Now try putting 1 and 1 together.

 

[MetalCraze]

I'm not sure if you're aware, but:
1. TNO can't die, he immediately gets resurrected when he loses all health.

Must be from cutting his wrists and not combat right?

 

[Dumb Bitch]

Valley of Sharp Angles (or whatever was its name), that Necropolis-like dungeon with the necro-boss in the end, lots of random thugs deciding to attack you etc.

The dungeons are awfully short compared to other games, and you can just run/sneak past enemies. And the necromancer encounter is optional.

Hey and want the special offer with the Modron character? Suffer through lots of rooms full of terribad combat too.

Nordom is more of an Easter egg than anything.

And suddenly this is a late game - didn't you say there was no combat at all?

See my previous post.

 

[Dumb Bitch]

I'm not sure if you're aware, but:
1. TNO can't die, he immediately gets resurrected when he loses all health.

Must be from cutting his wrists and not combat right?

The point is that escaping combat in PST is trivial because your main character simply can't die.

 

[MetalCraze]

Have you played the game yourself? When he dies in non-Sigil territory it's game over.
And he dies in Sigil too - and you must start running through the same territory with the combat all over.
You say there was no combat. Now you are weaseling out by saying that you can just play a game like a fag - well sorry in some quests you can't.

Hey does that also mean that Doom is the most pacifist shooter out there? You can just run past enemies till the end of the map!

 

[Dumb Bitch]

Now you are weaseling out by saying that you can just play a game like a fag - well sorry in some quests you can't.

Look up the definition of the word 'optional'. Obviously, if you're aiming for a two kills run, your playthrough won't be very complete.

But even in a more conventional run your kill count should be much lower than in most other RPGs. However, if you're so inclined, give me an example of a more pacifist RPG.

Hey does that also mean that Doom is the most pacifist shooter out there? You can just run past enemies till the end of the map!

This argument could hold some water if Doom had god mode on by default at all times. PST removes focus from combat by making the main character immortal.

 

[MetalCraze]

But even in a more conventional run your kill count should be much lower than in most other RPGs

First - no. Second who gives a shit? I didn't say PS:T was bad because you had to fight I said the combat itself is terrible.

Look up the definition of the word 'optional'

Sure the second half of the game is entirely optional.
Again you said there was no combat. Don't weasel out now.

But if you're so inclined, give me an example of a more pacifist RPG.

I won't, why should I? It has nothing to do with "PS:T has lots of shit combat"

This argument could hold some water if Doom had god mode on by default at all times. PST removes focus from combat by making the main character immortal.

TNO is just as immortal as Tommy Vercetti from GTA: VC
Not my problem you don't know what "godmode" is.

 

[Dumb Bitch]

Again you said there was no combat.

Did I, now? I said it's never the main focus, thus the statement that 'overabundance of the terribad combat ruins the game' seems unwarranted.

But if you're so inclined, give me an example of a more pacifist RPG.

I won't, why should I? It has nothing to do with "PS:T has lots of shit combat"

Looks like you lost your argument. In order for PST to have 'lots of shit combat', there must be a better, more pacifist game, for comparison.

 

[muds_animal_friend]

Far too many of you make PS:T out to be some great literatary masterpiece on par with Shakespeare.
At least Avellone has the honesty to admit that the game wasn't really all that deep and pretty light compared to most fantasy novels.

THIS. THIS you poisonously lying Codex fuckers. This is why I haven't installed MotB. In discussing gameplay, RPGCodex is about as reliable as the mainstream gaming press. You pack of filthy story whores.

PS:T may be the apex of CRPG storytelling, but that's damning by faint praise. On all other levels it's mediocre to poor.

 

[MetalCraze]

Did I, now? I said it's never the main focus, thus the statement that 'overabundance of the terribad combat ruins the game' seems unwarranted.

No you said you have to kill only 2 characters there. 3 people in this thread proved otherwise. And then you started with your "oh but that's the last part of the game it doesn't count/you can just get killed inside the quest and try to run past all combat in it again, dying again, but finally running past it/etc"

But if you're so inclined, give me an example of a more pacifist RPG.

I won't, why should I? It has nothing to do with "PS:T has lots of shit combat"

Looks like you lost your argument. In order for PST to have 'lots of shit combat', there must be a better, more pacifist game, for comparison.

Haha what the fuck are you talking about? Let me repeat it for you because you didn't seem to get it: "PS:T has lots of shit combat" not "PS:T has lots of combat". Reread three times, think on each word and on their sum. PS:T has as much combat as any other token RPG. Oh and btw you can speedrun Fallout in 7 minutes without a single shot.

 

[Dumb Bitch]

Did I, now? I said it's never the main focus, thus the statement that 'overabundance of the terribad combat ruins the game' seems unwarranted.

No you said you have to kill only 2 characters there. 3 people in this thread proved otherwise.

It is technically possible to finish the game with only two kills. That was my point. Is it more clear now?

But if you're so inclined, give me an example of a more pacifist RPG.

I won't, why should I? It has nothing to do with "PS:T has lots of shit combat"

Looks like you lost your argument. In order for PST to have 'lots of shit combat', there must be a better, more pacifist game, for comparison.

Haha what the fuck are you talking about? Let me repeat it for you because you didn't seem to get it: "PS:T has lots of shit combat". Reread three times, think on each word and on their sum.

I'm awfully sorry, but this holds as much water as "game X is bad because I said so". A game can be bad only in comparison. Black can't exist without white, and vice versa. Logic 101.

 

[Vibalist]

No really I found it terribly funny how you put it "all game mechanics aside it's an amazing game" hahaha

hahaha.

 

[MetalCraze]

It is technically possible to finish the game with only two kills. That was my point. Is it more clear now?

It is also technically possible to finish Doom with only two kills. However with PS:T you will have to skip 3/4 content for that and even 1/4 has combat that you can't avoid.

I'm awfully sorry, but this holds as much water as "game X is bad because I said so". A game can be bad only in comparison.

Yes and it's also bad in comparison - I've never said otherwise. Let's compare PS:T combat to the combat of f.e. ToEE/RoA which had more depth, allowed for some tactics, there even were ranged characters. In PS:T there are no ranged characters besides Nordom (and even he is very uncomfortable to play ranged because there is no such thing as range in PS:T's combat). You just gang up with your melees on enemies, then on another bunch, then on another bunch (those videos actually show that well) - all while twitching spacebar to baby-sit every single one of them and you don't even need buffs (because most of the time you don't have access to them - add to that that you have no choice but to play a melee char for a good chunk of the early game - even the first 4 characters you'll have in your party are melee ffs). It's IE combat but in PS:T it is even worse than in BG/IWD. Let's say I'd prefer 100 times more combat encounters of Star Trail than a piece of shit I had to suffer through in PS:T.

 

[Dumb Bitch]

It is technically possible to finish the game with only two kills. That was my point. Is it more clear now?

It is also technically possible to finish Doom with only two kills.

Um, no? You'll get toasted.

I'm awfully sorry, but this holds as much water as "game X is bad because I said so". A game can be bad only in comparison.

Yes and it's also bad in comparison - I've never said otherwise. Let's compare PS:T combat to the combat of f.e. ToEE/RoA which had more depth, allowed for some tactics, there even were ranged characters. In PS:T there are no ranged characters besides Nordom (and even he is very uncomfortable to play ranged because there is no such thing as range in PS:T's combat). You just gang up with your melees on enemies, then on another bunch, then on another bunch (those videos actually show that well) - all while twitching spacebar to baby-sit every single one of them and you don't even need buffs. It's IE combat but in PS:T it is even worse than in BG/IWD. Let's say I'd prefer 100 times more combat encounters of Star Trail than a piece of shit I had to suffer through in PS:T.

The combat in PST may be somewhat simplistic, but it's understandable since as I said it's never the main focus. PST obviously favors pacifist solutions, thus you have to compare it to another pacifist game. Comparing it to ToEE isn't fair at all, since it's a different subgenre.

 

[MetalCraze]

Um, no? You'll get toasted.

Not really, just dodge their blasts and know where to run for medkits.
You'll get toasted the same in PS:T.

The combat in PST may be somewhat simplistic, but it's understandable since as I said it's never the main focus.

Then why is it there everywhere? Even on every single street of Sigil? That's too much combat for "never the main focus" - in fact so much that it makes it very annoying. What about failed speech checks that lead to even more combat?

PST obviously favors pacifist solutions, thus you have to compare it to another pacifist game.

OK tell me how to solve Valley of Angles, Necro dungeon, Modron cube, Carceri, Baator, Outlands and Negative Plane in a pacifist way? Especially the last 50% of the game. It obviously favors it!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JzHRuR7YEIc
Those are some favorable pacifist solutions there, especially at 0:30

Comparing it to ToEE isn't fair, since it's a different sub-genre.

So what? Even the combat is DnD both here and there. Just because in PS:T you can spend 30 minutes just reading text and solve a few situations in a peaceful way doesn't mean you can't compare similar stuff and it somehow makes it "pacifist".

 

[Dumb Bitch]

Um, no? You'll get toasted.

Not really, just dodge their blasts and know where to run for medkits.
You'll get toasted the same in PS:T.

You're giving me doubts that you have actually played the game for any substantial amount of time. Do you know that you can use Annah to sneak past an area with enemies? Or you can make a thief TNO for the same purpose as well.

Then why is it there everywhere? Even on every single street of Sigil?

The thugs are so weak, they're never a problem. Not to mention that it's extremely easy to outrun them.

OK tell me how to solve Valley of Angles, Necro dungeon, Modron cube, Carceri, Baator, Outlands and Negative Plane in a pacifist way? Especially the last 50% of the game. It obviously favors it!

'Favors' != 'guarantees'. Also, 50% of the game? That's a bold statement.

Comparing it to ToEE isn't fair, since it's a different sub-genre.

So what? Even the combat is DnD both here and there. Just because in PS:T you can spend 30 minutes just reading text and solve a few situations in a peaceful way doesn't mean you can't compare similar stuff and it somehow makes it "pacifist".

Are you seriously insisting that comparing a story-driven game to a dungeon crawler is in any way reasonable? Can you compare a motorcycle to a car just because 'they both run on gasoline'?

 

[FeelTheRads]

Hey and want the special offer with the Modron character? Suffer through lots of rooms full of terribad combat too.

Not a good example for you want you try to point out.
First, it's entirely optional. Second, if you set the dungeon on hard, the combat is actually quite challenging.
And, on a more personal level, it's amusing.

 

[spectre]

So, guys, when do we reach the conclusion that *gasp*
it's totally possible to avoid combat in PST

 

[Xor]

It's not. There are 3 enemies you HAVE to fight to advance the plot.

 

[Serious_Business]

I understand that it may be too much for the unwashed masses, however.

Hahahhah fucking hilarious