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Anime Is Planescape an interesting setting?

Skinwalker

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Not talking about Planescape: Torment specifically (pay no attention to the thread tag), but rather the D&D setting that tried to unify all of their various different settings into a single systematized cosmology. Is it an interesting setting in its own right? Would you want more games set in Planescape?

Personally, I enjoyed reading about it from various dungeon master manuals a lot, but it could also use some trimming. The elemental planes, for instance, are fairly bland and don't need to be described in any amount of detail. Oh look, the elemental plane of water, it's... infinite water, like a bottomless ocean with no shores or surface. How extremely... less fascinating than an actual ocean.

The "Prime Material Plane" is a neat idea, basically medieval cosmology with a myriad of worlds floating inside a luminipherous aether-like substance, instead of the cold, dark space of modern mythology. Don't remember if the "demi-planes" were part of it, but they certainly should be. Most of the various D&D settings, e.g. Forgettable Realms, Ravenloft, Greycawk, etc. were established to be various planets or "demi-planes" inside the Material Plane.

Of course, the real meat and bones of the Planescape setting are the Outer Planes and Sigil, and that's where I've always felt the authors had made a grave error. With so many different realms, most subdivided into even further "layers", it is overkill to also make each one of them infinite. Extremely vast, sure. Constantly expanding to accommodate new arrivals, fine. But infinite from the get-go? That's just too much.

And then, of course, there's the mindbendingly cosmopolitan city of Sigil, written at a time when people were still intelligent enough to realize that a city full of so much dieversity could never sustain its existence for more than a millisecond, unless there was an omnipotent figure artificially maintaining the status quo (Lady of Pain) for some unknowable reason. Dieversity is NOT our strength in Planescape or the real world, but it does make for an interesting setting for adventure and exploration. Note what makes Sigil interesting: it's unique, finite, and fairly small. How it hasn't collapsed under an infinite number of entities pouring in from infinite portals out of the infinite planes is beyond me.

But what do YOU think about Planescape?
 
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scytheavatar

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It's a setting that is interesting, but I would fucking hate more Planescape games cause I would hate modern writers getting involved with the setting. Like Dark Sun the setting is all about player disempowerment and making it clear to the players that they can't change shit. Which goes against the direction modern RPG has been pushing. It would be dumb if the players could overthrow the Lady of Pain. So please stop wanting more Planescape games cause you will regret it.
 

Zed Duke of Banville

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S.torch

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It was the second most interesting setting back when D&D was not a complete corporate zombie. The first one being Ravenloft. It tried to apt White Wolf's World of Darkness which was big at the time. Some features like factions were a direct rip-off from there. That alone made it more appealing than the other generic dungeon-crawler focused settings.

But like most D&D settings it never reached its potential. It was held by barebones mechanics and muh lore police and epic metaplot. The art rocks though.
 

Nifft Batuff

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If they will make a new cRPG in this setting, the romance with the Lady of Pain will be mandatory. It's for modern sensibilities.
 

Chuck Norris

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It's a bit pretentious with all the armchair philosophy induced in the factions of Sigil, but it is truly creative and it can have its moments if used correctly.

At this point, I judge any attempt at true creativity in fantasy less harshly, because the genre desperately needs it.
 

laclongquan

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Yes, very~ It's like it take everything and squeeze together into a Sigil . Give a feel of cosmopolitan mixed with wild wild west. Fantasy cyberpunk, if you can imagine that line.

In fact, if you can take every location in Baldur's gate 2 (and dlc) and squeeze them together into a city, it's that Sigil and planescape. The fantasy part of it, lacking steampunk part.

It's very hard to make a fantasy megapolis, as both BG city, Alkethla in BG2, Arcanum's Tarant, and Barcelona in Lionheart. Sigil in PST make a fair start, but nothing later come close to it.
 

JarlFrank

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It's a setting that is interesting, but I would fucking hate more Planescape games cause I would hate modern writers getting involved with the setting. Like Dark Sun the setting is all about player disempowerment and making it clear to the players that they can't change shit. Which goes against the direction modern RPG has been pushing. It would be dumb if the players could overthrow the Lady of Pain. So please stop wanting more Planescape games cause you will regret it.
A Planescape-like game written by modern writers would be something like Torment: Tides of Numenera. A completely messy collection of random quirky stuff without any thematic tissue to connect it, along with extremely overwritten walls of text that have nothing of relevance to tell you.
 

Saint_Proverbius

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Yes, very~ It's like it take everything and squeeze together into a Sigil . Give a feel of cosmopolitan mixed with wild wild west. Fantasy cyberpunk, if you can imagine that line.
It's fairly alien compared to most fantasy settings, which is part of the appeal. It's still fantasy, but it's several steps removed from traditional high fantasy. The concept of the City of Doors allows for a lot of crazy things that you wouldn't find in Forgotten Realms while still allowing things from Forgotten Realms in there as well. It's honestly similar to the concept of Babylon 5 where it's a hub for virtually anything in any of the source books to show up and interact with one another, only where Babylon 5 is Sci-Fi and takes place in a single galaxy, the City of Doors is a nexus for the D&D planes.
 

Daemongar

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It's a bit pretentious with all the armchair philosophy induced in the factions of Sigil, but it is truly creative and it can have its moments if used correctly.

At this point, I judge any attempt at true creativity in fantasy less harshly, because the genre desperately needs it.
See, there WAS some armchair philosophy in the Sigil factions. There was a little bit of work to flesh them out, and with capable hands they made the factions sorta interesting.
There - I said capable hands. Modern writing in Sigil would go the Fallout Vault way. Starting out as sorta interesting and quickly descending into large scale idiocy in the span of a few games. There would be plenty of new factions in any new Planescape writing, almost all revolving around current events.
  • The "Let Everyone In" faction to let all races into Sigil, including warring demons, devils, and other. The player can join, but they must always select the conversation option that makes excuses for the rising crime rate. Every time you return to Sigil it looks shittier and shittier.
  • The "Explore the Million Sexualities" faction. In old PS:T the biggest pervert was someone stole some gals panties. The planes shudder to think of what kinda of perversion would be snuck into a modern game in the same universe.
  • The "Women do more than Complain" faction (and the members ironically complain about everything! A bunch of battle-axes!)
 
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I like Planescape. It's a nice departure from traditional D&D fare. It lets players dabble in scifi and more contemporary themes without spoiling the medieval fantasy punch. The problem with this setting is when it becomes too familiar to the player and the exotic becomes mundane. A good campaign should be run like an episode of the old TV show Sliders, being strangers in a strange world where they are constantly in peril from things they don't quite understand.
 

Erebus

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Planescape was my favorite D&D setting even before Torment. It's very creative, engaging and atmospheric.

That doesn't mean it's perfect, obviously. The factions, for instance, were a great idea but not very well executed. Several of them were poorly designed : the Xaositects were painfully bad, the Harmonium and Mercykillers were much too unlikable, the Dustmen had a philosophy that was way too bizarre to be widespread, the Athar were more about religion than philosophy... And the influence of the factions was much too limited outside of Sigil.

But the concepts were strong, and the flaws could be fixed by the DM.


With so many different realms, most subdivided into even further "layers", it is overkill to also make each one of them infinite. Extremely vast, sure. Constantly expanding to accommodate new arrivals, fine. But infinite from the get-go? That's just too much.

I think it's best not to take the "infinite" thing too literally. I prefer to interpret it as meaning that space doesn't follow the usual rules on the planes, that the planes don't have a size that can be measured with rational methods, and that they can't be mapped.


The elemental planes, for instance, are fairly bland and don't need to be described in any amount of detail. Oh look, the elemental plane of water, it's... infinite water, like a bottomless ocean with no shores or surface. How extremely... less fascinating than an actual ocean.

The Inner Planes are clearly much less interesting than the Outer Planes, and adventurers aren't meant to spend that much time exploring them.

The Inner Planes campaign expansion did its best to make them interesting (all eighteen of them), but even though some good ideas can be found in it, it certainly doesn't hold a candle to the three boxed sets focused on the Outer Planes : Planes of Chaos, Planes of Law and Planes of Conflict.
 
Vatnik Wumao
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The problem with this setting is when it becomes too familiar to the player and the exotic becomes mundane. A good campaign should be run like an episode of the old TV show Sliders, being strangers in a strange world where they are constantly in peril from things they don't quite understand.
In this regard, I think that Numenera (mainly the TTRPG, not the CRPG) did a pretty good job addressing that as a spiritual successor of sorts with the whole Ninth World concept and the "tech that is advanced enough is indistinguishable from magic" approach to worldbuilding. Even if you don't intend to ever play it (it has a very casual, more storytelling-focused system), I do recommend checking out the books solely for the fluff.
 

Louis_Cypher

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Utterly alien cultures. The appeal of "wacky cosmic settings" is probably the same appeal as being a space explorer in Star Trek, a Gulliver type traveller like in Farscape, or discovering wacky pacific islands like in One Piece. To see how a speculative society might develop along different lines, in an entirely different environment, separating them by a barrier like sea or space or distance or dimension. Age of Sail, Strange New Worlds. Discovering a new way that civilization has played out. Stuff with planar settings is just space opera with wizards instead of Chief Engineers and warp cores?

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Except instead of becoming a chad for four years at Starfleet Academy, then earning a starship command, crewed by other explorers working together as a plausible collective endevour, you just have a power fantasy of walking through a doorway I guess. Man up and become a real sci-fi fan retards /joke

Which are tolkienesque settings?
Nobody except Tolkien has ever competently done Tolkien.
 
Vatnik Wumao
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Utterly alien cultures. The appeal of "wacky cosmic settings" is probably the same appeal as being an explorer in Star Trek, a Gulliver type traveller like in Farscape, or discovering wacky pacific islands like in One Piece. To see how a speculative society might develop along different lines, in an entirely different environment, separating them by a barrier like space or distance or dimension. Age of Sail discovery, Strange New Worlds. Discovering a new way that civilization has played out. Stuff with planar settings is just space opera with wizards instead of Chief Engineers and warp cores?
I think that's part of it, but it's more about the mishmash rather than the individual components. It's not about alien cultures in themselves, but about alien cultures interacting with each other in a common space. Less of an explorer fantasy, more of a cosmopolitan one (which can be naturally tied to exploration if the protagonist represents an outsider dropped into it). Space operas naturally play into that as well.
 

Zed Duke of Banville

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tolkienesque or gtfo
Which are tolkienesque settings?
For D&D/AD&D, the Tolkienesque campaign setting is Dragonlance, which was conceived as an epic series of 12 linked adventure modules, published from 1984 to 1986 (with another two non-adventure supplements along the way), in which the player-characters change the outcome of the 'War of the Lance'. TSR took the risk of publishing an associated trilogy of novels that followed the general path as the adventures, with the pregenerated characters included in the modules being the protagonists of the novels, and it sold beyond their wildest dreams. When TSR shifted to a focus on campaign setting material in 1987, a Dragonlance Adventures hardcover campaign setting book was published, but it was overshadowed by the box set for the new Forgotten Realms campaign setting, which served as the replacement for Greyhawk as the standard AD&D campaign setting. Although Dragonlance remained popular among TSR's ever-expanding lines of D&D/AD&D fiction publishing, in terms of AD&D game products it never fully received its due in comparison to the Forgotten Realms, and was de facto cancelled as a game line (as opposed to novels) by the end of 1996 (among the other conventional campaign settings, Greyhawk was officially cancelled in 1994, and D&D's Known World / Mystara was dead by the end of 1995, following a poorly-conceived effort to convert it to AD&D 2nd edition).

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Odoryuk

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It being a part of DnD multiverse thing diminishes its impact greatly.
 

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