Vlajdermen
Arcane
Read the title
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Is the Sega Saturn a good or a bad console?
- Thread starter Vlajdermen
- Start date
It is a dead console.
Sega Genesis is what you want. Sega Saturn was a response to PlayStation 1 and failed, removing Sega from the console race.
It probably had some exclusives, but seeing that it wasn't going anywhere, no devs were incentivized to release hidden gems on it. PS1 and N64 were their goto platforms.
It probably had some exclusives, but seeing that it wasn't going anywhere, no devs were incentivized to release hidden gems on it. PS1 and N64 were their goto platforms.
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Nutmeg
Arcane
It has a lot of good otaku games and arcade ports which are well worth playing as different takes on the arcade originals. Titan ports aren't even ports as it's the same hardware, so you just get the extras with nothing lost.
As a result it has an excellent shmup (e.g. Batsugun, Battle Garegga, Gunlock) and fighting game library (e.g. Vampire Savior, Street Fighter Alpha 3), oddball arcade games like Gals Panic SS or Gussun Oyoyo S, alongside quirky exclusives like Bulk Slash or Psycho Killer Taromaru, some excellent Japanese sim-lite titles like Assault Suit Leynos 2, Gungriffon 2 and Stellar Assault, this is not even mentioning Treasure (Radiant Silvergun, Guardian Heroes, Silhouette Mirage) and Sega's output (Nights into Dreams, Burning Rangers, Panzer Dragoon etc.) for the console which everyone knows and loves.
Yes they were.
For example Saturn has Asuka Limit Over which was released by the developers of the series after their company folded, and after the Dreamcast was released as a passion project. How's that for incentive? It's arguably the progenitor of a whole sub-genre of anime fighters and the inspiration for Skullgirls. Here's some live play and commentary from the Skullgirls devs (I think?) on the game:
For RPG hidden gem exclusives you have Shining the Holy Ark from Camelot which, aside from the Busin games, has the best presentation out of any grid based blobber, IMO, and the Falcom Classics Collection which has an excellent version of Xanadu, a game not enough people on this forum have played.
Market success is an awful measure of quality and an excellent measure of fickle fashions and advertising resources.
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As far as I understand, it could do 2D better than PS1, but lagged behind in 3D, which is where things were going at the time.
I'll definitely try some titles you suggested, thanks.
True Ukrainian
Arcane
The Saturn was a victim of bad strategy by Sega. Sega released the Saturn with the 32X, effectively two same gen systems in the same stable. Both systems cannibalized each others market. Saturn survived thanks to arcade ports, it had very generous 2D memory that made high quality ports possible, in particular the Capcom games that used the tag team mechanic.
Nutmeg
Arcane
It absolutely bombed in Western markets but did well in Japan, partly because of its vast library of very anime looking games. Also many (most?) of the games I mentioned weren't even released in the West, even though being arcade ports or arcade format games they didn't really have much or any text to localize at all.
In terms of untranslated, there's Soul Hackers and Devil Summoner, which have ports to other systems, but are best on Saturn IIRC.
In terms of untranslated, there's Soul Hackers and Devil Summoner, which have ports to other systems, but are best on Saturn IIRC.
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True Ukrainian
Arcane
The Saturn wasn't doing well in Japan either until the Segatta Sanjiro campaign gave it a fresh breath of life.
Hellraiser
Arcane
Actually owning one since not that long ago, I have to say the library is decent when compared to anything from that generation that isn't a PS1, but it can be hard to find something if you're not into arcade ports or arcade games in general (it's like with the N64 and sub-30 frames per second 3d platformers and FPS games...). One can only play so many shmups and fighting games. The more singleplayer home experience titles, your tomb raiders, resident evils, 2D platformers (Gex, Rayman, Megamans..), longer stuff you wouldn't find on an arcade cabinet etc. often overlap with the PS1. If you look at sega first party exclusives they dropped the ball in this regard, failing to read the market, as there's just some jRPGs mostly, no mainline Sonic game etc.
The gap in 3D while visible wasn't some canyon, and there's enough early cross-platform 3D games between it and the PS1 to show it. I mean FFS it has the first two Wipeout games (honestly besides the transparency/smoke from missiles I wouldn't be able to tell the two versions of Wipeout 1 apart, maybe if I had them side by side, but the saturn one runs very well with no drops and the tracks/vehicles look the same as far as I can tell, so way better than expected), Tomb Raider was originally developed for the Saturn (and never got the sequels...). In the end while it was originally designed for 2D its library has a lot more 3D games in my experience, it's actually a bit hard to find 2D exclusive games on it in my experience.
Its main problem wasn't the 3D, it was the PS1 being cheaper, Sony having a ridiculously good market entry strategy (good deals for indies/3rd parties, cheap dev kits, a lot easier development with a C library that was well documented) which lead to a very big library that was bound to have something for everyone, while Sega had a bad case of internal stupidity and lack of cooperation between Japan and the US branch.
The gap in 3D while visible wasn't some canyon, and there's enough early cross-platform 3D games between it and the PS1 to show it. I mean FFS it has the first two Wipeout games (honestly besides the transparency/smoke from missiles I wouldn't be able to tell the two versions of Wipeout 1 apart, maybe if I had them side by side, but the saturn one runs very well with no drops and the tracks/vehicles look the same as far as I can tell, so way better than expected), Tomb Raider was originally developed for the Saturn (and never got the sequels...). In the end while it was originally designed for 2D its library has a lot more 3D games in my experience, it's actually a bit hard to find 2D exclusive games on it in my experience.
Its main problem wasn't the 3D, it was the PS1 being cheaper, Sony having a ridiculously good market entry strategy (good deals for indies/3rd parties, cheap dev kits, a lot easier development with a C library that was well documented) which lead to a very big library that was bound to have something for everyone, while Sega had a bad case of internal stupidity and lack of cooperation between Japan and the US branch.
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Nutmeg
Arcane
There's plenty I've not played but heard good things about like Baroque, Tokimeki Puzzle Dama, Astra Superstars, Nekketsu Oyayo and Vatlva as well. Or games I am sure are good based on the sequel, but I've not played the Saturn original like Culdcept. Or the other way around where I played the Mega Drive original but not the Saturn sequel like Legend of Oasis. I also just didn't mention a bunch of shmups cause to be honest I can rattle off another 5 or 6 excellent games, but they're not as "big" as the three I did mention. I guess the only big omission there is Twinkle Star Sprites. Another big omission outside of shmups is Elevator Action Returns.
Also worth noting is that I didn't mention any arcade ports where I don't *know* if there's a good reason you'd want to play it over the original e.g. I know the Saturn port of Cyberbots (a favorite fighting game of mine) has an extra playable character, but that's not enough by itself, IMO, to compensate for the same issues with visible image area or aspect ratio and resolution (you can pick your poison) as in all other CPS2 ports.
There's also games like Dragon Force which I was butthurt about for some reason or other that escapes me but I could have been wrong. In any case I didn't mention this category of games either.
Vlajdermen
Arcane
Yeah, that's rather the crux of the issue with the saturn. It's almost exclusively 2d shmups, fighting games, and sugoi desu games, and how you feel about the saturn will depend on how you feel about those genres. In my case, I'm not a fan of any of the three, but the saturn did have NiGHTS, which I greatly enjoyed as a Sanic fan, and
On that note, Panzer is really one of the few series that endes just when it needed to. Never outstayed its welcome, reached its maximum gameplay potential with Orta, never overexposed its setting to the point where it lost its mystery, reached technology that could keep up with the vision. The only way it could be better was if they released an RPG on the xbox which addressed some of the problems with Saga, but I'm not gonna lose any sleep over it. It was already a great time as it is.
Falksi
Arcane
It's better than the N64 and on-par with the PS1 if you include it's Japanese releases.
As a 2D machine 'I'd actually say it's the best of the gen. Most of the best arcade ports, such as the Street Fighter games, play way better than they do on PS1. The load times on PS1 alone kill those games dead. Throw in some of the best SHMUPs of that gen which were Saturn exclusives (Battle Garegga, Radient Silvergun etc.), and it comes out on top for me.
As an RPG machine...despite what Joe Normie will tell you...it's a match for the PS1 too, especially if you include it's Japanese library. "Nothing matches FF7/Xenogears/Bof3/etc." is something I read retarded JRPG normie fanboys post on Facebook all the time, as they seem completely oblivious to belters such as Panzer Dragoon Saga, Shining Force 3, Dragon Force etc. It's definitely a machine which simply doesn't get enough appreciation as it should in this area because of said normie peasants not experiencing what it has to offer.
Castlevania SOTN also serves as a good example of normie stupidity when it comes to judgment on the Saturn, with many claiming the best version is on PS1 because of a few graphical effects. Yet the Saturn version is actually a bigger game with extra areas, extra enemies, and you can play as Maria too. Subjectively, I prefer the workings of some of the songs on the Saturn version too.
Where the Saturn obviously falls over is with some of it's 3D stuff; a lot of it just looks shit and a significant step behind the PS1. So I can understand why 3D aficionados would prefer the PS1.
But yeah, it's a groovy little system for that era, certainly pisses all over the God awful N64. The problem with that whole era though is simply that early console 3D was mostly shit, and PC just decimated most stuff.
As a 2D machine 'I'd actually say it's the best of the gen. Most of the best arcade ports, such as the Street Fighter games, play way better than they do on PS1. The load times on PS1 alone kill those games dead. Throw in some of the best SHMUPs of that gen which were Saturn exclusives (Battle Garegga, Radient Silvergun etc.), and it comes out on top for me.
As an RPG machine...despite what Joe Normie will tell you...it's a match for the PS1 too, especially if you include it's Japanese library. "Nothing matches FF7/Xenogears/Bof3/etc." is something I read retarded JRPG normie fanboys post on Facebook all the time, as they seem completely oblivious to belters such as Panzer Dragoon Saga, Shining Force 3, Dragon Force etc. It's definitely a machine which simply doesn't get enough appreciation as it should in this area because of said normie peasants not experiencing what it has to offer.
Castlevania SOTN also serves as a good example of normie stupidity when it comes to judgment on the Saturn, with many claiming the best version is on PS1 because of a few graphical effects. Yet the Saturn version is actually a bigger game with extra areas, extra enemies, and you can play as Maria too. Subjectively, I prefer the workings of some of the songs on the Saturn version too.
Where the Saturn obviously falls over is with some of it's 3D stuff; a lot of it just looks shit and a significant step behind the PS1. So I can understand why 3D aficionados would prefer the PS1.
But yeah, it's a groovy little system for that era, certainly pisses all over the God awful N64. The problem with that whole era though is simply that early console 3D was mostly shit, and PC just decimated most stuff.
The Saturn was released first though?
Beans00
Erudite
- Joined
- Aug 27, 2008
- Messages
- 1,009
It sucked and it's the reason the dreamcast(which was awesome) failed. Kind of like how the n64 being junk caused the gamecube(which was also awesome) to fail.
I had a friend who had a saturn and always thought everything about it except the controller stunk. There's a lot of revisionism about the saturn(mostly from weebs) in the last 10 years so now it's junk and insanely overpriced.
Mega man 8 on the ps1 is like 20$. On the saturn it's like 2,500$. Tons of saturn games are in the 150-2000 range.
I had a friend who had a saturn and always thought everything about it except the controller stunk. There's a lot of revisionism about the saturn(mostly from weebs) in the last 10 years so now it's junk and insanely overpriced.
Mega man 8 on the ps1 is like 20$. On the saturn it's like 2,500$. Tons of saturn games are in the 150-2000 range.
Hellraiser
Arcane
Akshully it's the loading times (including when calling up the start menu to change equipment, check the map, very very annoying) and obvious framerate drops/performance issues (very noticable), and some minor issues like the lack of a dedicated map button on the saturn version that I see mentioned as reasons for inferiority, and ones I also experienced and noticed myself. But these are primarily because Konami botched the port.
Although nowadays you can use a dedicated haxxed iso (you anyway need a haxx with a translation, as it was a japan only release) and a ram catridge for some performance boosts/optimizations the original release did not have. Can't say how good they are because I have yet to get a 4-in-1 cart for the ram cart games, which is why my playthrough of the Saturn version is on the to play list (only checked it out briefly to test the ODE), but for instance the start menu loading is one of the things it helps with according to the readme.
Falksi
Arcane
For sure, I was specifically just referring to the normie claims of it being the best version because of "better graphics"; it's a claim I've seen many times on social media which totally ignores the many positives the Saturn version has.
PS1 version certainly has it's plusses too, but it's certainly not a game which wouldn't hold up as one which makes the PS1 superior as I've read many do, there's a lot of subjective preferences in there.
Halfling Rodeo
Educated
- Joined
- Dec 14, 2023
- Messages
- 963
Tomb Raider was developed on PS1 and Saturn at the same time. SEGA signed an exclusive deal to have it released on Saturn first and dev time was lost to move it's release forward. PS1 version is more refined as far as I know. It had an extra few weeks of exclusive dev time at least.
There's also a big fan patch to fix up a bunch of it's issues. Sega Lord X did a video on it not too long ago.
The Saturn is a fine console but it suffers from being difficult to emulate and no one really digging into the system's library. I own one and I enjoyed playing NiGHTS, Fighters Mega mix and some other stuff. It has huge potential for hidden gems if you're willing to put the time into exploring it's library. It's a lot like the Dreamcast where it feels part of it's era and the experience hasn't been replicated any where else. There's 1000 Saturn games with 75% being exclusive to Japan, with that many titles there has to be some good games on the system. It's a matter of finding what doesn't need to be understood or has fan translations.
soutaiseiriron
Educated
- Joined
- Aug 8, 2023
- Messages
- 203
disagree, the console with the most games is generally the best, and the console that's most successful is generally the one with the most games. i can't think of many exceptions to this guideline, the PSP is the only one off the top of my head since that was better in hardware and software quality but had less sales and games. the wii doesn't count since that had less games despite more units sold.
Nutmeg
Arcane
I am personally butthurt about it because it has too much unskippable dialogue, likewise animations, but if you can get past those the scenario design is good from what I've played of the first chapter.
It has plenty.
Already mentioned were:
- Baroque
- Devil Summoner
- Panzer Dragoon Saga
- Shining the Holy Ark
- Soul Hackers
- Xanadu
If you include SRPGs you can add Culdcept (if it counts, it isn't really an SRPG in the traditional sense), Dragon Force 1 and 2 (again, if they count, I suppose), Langrisser 3, 4 and 5, Ogre Battle, Sakura Taisen 1 and 2, Shining Force 3, Super Robot Wars FF, Tactics Ogre and Vandal Hearts.
Where the above mentioned games also appeared on the PS1 or SFC, there are compelling reasons to play the Saturn version instead, or no reason not to. There are more, ofc. these are just games which I can vouch for from experience, or which are considered classics (wrongly, in some cases, IMO, but I have "unique" requirements for these genres different from most players). Cyberdoll recently caught my eye as it got a translation, Terra Phantastica likewise but for its absolutely beautiful art -- there is no translation just yet.
How many do you need?
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Halfling Rodeo
Educated
- Joined
- Dec 14, 2023
- Messages
- 963
There's more than enough RPGs on every other console to last you 10 life times. The Saturn excelling at high quality 2d sprites in action games is a nice change of pace from the typical fodder of consoles.
I've been playing Panzer Dragoon Saga in bed at night on my Retroid Pocket 3 plus using the Yaba Sanshiro 2 emulator from Google app store. It runs flawless. I haven't tried every Saturn game on it, but what I have runs.
Jinn
Arcane
- Joined
- Nov 8, 2007
- Messages
- 4,993
For a kid growing up in that time, interested in RPGs, no, that's not enough. Same with the Genesis. Same with the Dreamcast. We can look back all we want and say "oh, there's hundreds of RPGs all over to place to play now," but when you're someone who took a gamble on a single console that was going to usher you through your childhood, and your main focus was the joy of RPGs, then all of the Sega consoles were woefully lacking in that regard.
Funny how butthurt so many of got about it though.
Funny how butthurt so many of got about it though.
Viata
Arcane
Amazing game and my 2nd favorite MegaTen game(Strange Journey being the first). However, I only played the PSP version, perhaps I'll give the Saturn a try if I ever get the time to play it.
Nutmeg
Arcane
Expand your horizons. You are missing out on some of the deepest and most replayable games ever made.
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