It's official Turn Based beat RTwP in the CRPG wars.

[Gyor]

I mean BG3 made probably over a billion dollars which just killed the idea that turn based games can't make money

Only idiots believed in this.

Take it up with steamspy you turd, they have BG3 at 20 to 50 million sold.

 

[luj1]

the idea that turn based games can't make money

Gyor dummy

 

[Sreggin Etah I]

she gave Baldur's Gate III only a 2.5 while giving broken RTwP combat of Baldur's Gate I a 8.7

Because, you idiot, you have good RTwP games just as you have bad TB games.

but Baldur's Gate III is better than the previous games, more challenging, a lot more C&C(the first two barely had any), bigger and so on.. there is not even comparison here Baldur's Gate III destroys BGI and II in every single way if you remove your nostalgia boomer lens.

 

[luj1]

The previous games were games, this is a movie

 

[Sreggin Etah I]

The previous games were games, this is a movie

BGII had a lot of dialogue too, Imoen for example, does not shut the fuck up in the first dungeon in BGII, just because they switched up written dialogue with cutscenes does not make it more or less movie, but if you want to read more than watch i guess you would like BGII more.

But like i said, if you take the boomer lens out, Baldur's Gate III is objectively from a gameplay perspective a far superior RPG than the second one. Lilura can not do that, because she is a boomer.

 

[Gromoer]

The previous games were games, this is a movie

BGII had a lot of dialogue too, Imoen for example, does not shut the fuck up in the first dungeon in BGII, just because they switched up written dialogue with cutscenes does not make it more or less movie, but if you want to read more than watch i guess you would like BGII more.

But like i said, if you take the boomer lens out, Baldur's Gate III is objectively from a gameplay perspective a far superior RPG than the second one. Lilura can not do that, because she is a boomer.

Yeah BG2 was a huge leap towards the decline, no news here. Same amusement park philosophy which was just fleshed out by Larian. The only true game of them all is BG1.

 

[Sreggin Etah I]

Yeah BG2 was a huge leap towards the decline, no news here. Same amusement park philosophy which was just fleshed out by Larian. The only true game of them all is BG1.

BG2 dropped the best part of BG1: exploration. In the sequel you need to talk with NPCs first to unlock the areas so you could travel there, this is bad design, if they wanted to go it the dumbed down approach at least use something like Fallout 1/2 travel system man!

There is no wilderness areas to explore and no random encounters either. Like you said the game is very theme park, in this case Athkatla is the park and the quests are the attractions: "go see the Red Dragon there!!! experience the Beholders here!!!"

 

[Vic]

which just killed the idea turn based games can't make money

do you even JRPG

 

[Sreggin Etah I]

with the exception of Pokemon, action RPGs sells more(in West the at least), this is a fact:

https://vgsales.fandom.com/wiki/Best-selling_RPG_games#:~:text=2016-,25,410,000,-[31]

take out Pokemon and most of these games are action and most people play Pokemon to capture 'cute' monsters, they don't care about the combat. Final Fantasy enjoyed some good sales in the West in the PS1/PS2 era because they're cutting edge graphics back then.

I say in the West because most turn based RPGs(if not all of them) on the list are JRPGs, and most of their sales come from Japan. Japan is not making non anime looking CRPGs, what we care here.

 

[Reinhardt]

It's official, bear sex companions beat full party creation, you heard it here first.

Why? Because BG3 bux, bigot.

You're not going to enjoy the game because of optional bear sex?(Arcanum had sheep sex), i thought you're a combat fag, nah you're a just a boomer fag.

sheep didn't tried to buttfuck you every time you go for the rest in your camp

 

[scytheavatar]

with the exception of Pokemon, action RPGs sells more(in West the at least), this is a fact:

https://vgsales.fandom.com/wiki/Best-selling_RPG_games#:~:text=2016-,25,410,000,-[31]

take out Pokemon and most of these games are action and most people play Pokemon to capture 'cute' monsters, they don't care about the combat. Final Fantasy enjoyed some good sales in the West in the PS1/PS2 era because they're cutting edge graphics back then.

I say in the West because most turn based RPGs(if not all of them) on the list are JRPGs, and most of their sales come from Japan. Japan is not making non anime looking CRPGs, what we care here.

LOL you think people care about the combat of Witcher 3 or Skyrim any more than Pokemon?

 

[Vic]

with the exception of Pokemon, action RPGs sells more(in West the at least), this is a fact:

https://vgsales.fandom.com/wiki/Best-selling_RPG_games#:~:text=2016-,25,410,000,-[31]

take out Pokemon and most of these games are action and most people play Pokemon to capture 'cute' monsters, they don't care about the combat. Final Fantasy enjoyed some good sales in the West in the PS1/PS2 era because they're cutting edge graphics back then.

I say in the West because most turn based RPGs(if not all of them) on the list are JRPGs, and most of their sales come from Japan. Japan is not making non anime looking CRPGs, what we care here.

are you unironically quoting a fandom page titled "Best-selling RPG games" as proof?

 

[Sreggin Etah I]

LOL you think people care about the combat of Witcher 3 or Skyrim any more than Pokemon?

I do think the action combat makes them more palatable to mainstream gamers yes, corporations knows what sell.

are you unironically quoting a fandom page titled "Best-selling RPG games" as proof?

Look into the references, here's for The Witcher 3:

https://www.cdprojekt.com/en/media/news/cd-projekt-looks-back-at-2021/

It actually sold 50 million, so it's even worse, but you can google that.

 

[Vic]

oh no baby is upset

 

[Sreggin Etah I]

oh no baby is upset

the irony

edit: my comment did not deserve that retarded rating, you told me it's just a fandom, i responded accordingly telling you to check the sources, and they all seem correct, so why the rating?

 

[Gilius Thunderhead]

It just proves that all the marketing people with notions of "what the kids really want" are full of shit and have always been. There was no time in which you couldn't have made a turn based, RTwP, or action RPG.

 

[NaturallyCarnivorousSheep]

It just proves that all the marketing people with notions of "what the kids really want" are full of shit and have always been. There was no time in which you couldn't have made a turn based, RTwP, or action RPG.

I disagree. Even Vincke will tell you you're wrong btw. The development costs are going up and will always go up simply because you need pay the devs more if for no other reason. This means that making divinityriginal sin in 2007, when digital distribution wasn't mainstream yet and you've had to compete for shelve space with titles that ultimately had higher sales cap would end in failure. Not only your "tail" sales, which for crpgs were always a big deal will be thinner but also your profit margin from a single copy sold was lower etc. etc. Add to this the fact that you will have to cooperate with distributors even if you're able to self-fund(because the organisational overhead of distributing the game in 100 different countries will be too much of a headache) and you have the reason why the genre was in the state it was back then. Trying to fill niches instead of shooting for the stars was just impossible in that environment, especially when you wanted to make crpgs.

 

[Bohrain]

RTwP's sole advantage over TB is that it makes trash encounters faster. But trash encounters by definition should not exist in in properly designed game.

 

[Reinhardt]

oh no baby is upset

the irony

edit: my comment did not deserve that retarded rating, you told me it's just a fandom, i responded accordingly telling you to check the sources, and they all seem correct, so why the rating?

it's shitty fandom. they didn't even spelled "role-playing rpg games" properly.

 

[Nortar]

TB is superior to RtwP, no doubts about that.
But I suspect it finally won due to the wrong reasons.
Like North got the upper hand by enlisting negroes, TB flourished by appeasing console peasants.

What does that leave RTwP besides Stellaris & it's Star Trek Infinity knockoff which is a stragedy game, not a CRPG game?
What is left of the RTwP Studios?

Welp, there's Even Horizon with Tower of Time and upcoming Dark Evnoy.

Besides there's the whole subgenre of Commandos-like tactics, and I'd say it's the only kind of tacticools where RTwP feels better then TB.
Commando: Origins gives me hope that it won't all die together with Mimimi.

 

[Riddler]

Shame about everything else being horseshit.

Nah, combat is part of what is shit.

What is good is the multitude of approaches to encounters, not the combat.

 

[Riddler]

As an aside I feel like the discussion of tb VS rtwp is too simplistic. It may well be that rtwp and action are too chaotic for good tactical decisions to be made but that doesn't make Sequential TB good, it's inevitably slow, simple/easy and degenerate into being primarily about initiative etc (or it has to be extremely constrained like chess). Fact is that combat in most "tactical" games (never mind action games) is just straight up trash filler and feel like an afterthought even if it is what players will spend most of their time on.

People who think they're some kind of mastermind for beating the AI at the highest difficulty in some kind of tactical game are deluding themselves. It's like people playing the campaign in an RTS on the highest difficulty going online thinking they're hot shit and then getting completely fucking dumpstered and realising that they're not even in the top 50%. Except in the case of single player games the delusion is collective since no-one is getting a reality check.

Something like simultaneous turn based seems much preferable if you're not a complete brainlet, if you don't want a real time game.

 

[scytheavatar]

TB is superior to RtwP, no doubts about that.
But I suspect it finally won due to the wrong reasons.
Like North got the upper hand by enlisting negroes, TB flourished by appeasing console peasants.

It won for the simple reason that RTWP is a dead end design and was going to lose eventually. There simply isn't much room to make better RTWP combat than what we had in Baldur's Gate 2. While there is still room to make better turn based combat.

 

[CryptRat]

RTwP's sole advantage over TB is that it makes trash encounters faster.

I've never liked this argument, I understand that you mean simultaneous is faster, but in the same time in my opinion the best way to design fast combat is to make it as fast as the player clicks, not automatic with cooldowns, which also means that the player can play the fights which are worth his time the better way. Might & Magic 3 is a good example of game with fast combat to me.

 

[BING XI LAO]

Daily reminder that RTwP detractors don't know what autopause settings even are.