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I've never played any Half Life games

Seerix

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Half-Life series, as it is right now, is a very good example of how you can make a immerisve game with a mute player character that's essentially a floating camera, hand and a whatever gun and also be more immersive than all the modern shooters with those first person cutscenes showing your character doing some dramatic shit like opening jammed doors or getting out of wrecked vehicle. It's also a nice point of reference to see how industry "changed". First game didn't age very well, sure. But Half-Life 2 still looks and plays better than most shooters nowadays. Crysis 2 is probably the first game that finally got better face animation quality. :roll:
 

Morgoth

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Whenever I launch good ol' 1998 Half-Life, I immediatly get chained by it's spell. Whether it's stepping on these mesmerizing metallic floors, slash crates with the crowbar, or hear that tutorial chick's sexy voice reverberant through the Dulce-inspired underground bases, something inside me re-awakens, a feeling of familiarity, but also sadness. It is nostalgia in it's purest essence. Then I cry. Then I finish an entire playthrough in 2-3 hours basically with my eyes closed. Then I grumble, come back to the 'Dex and rant why modern gaming is shit.

A classic in it's truest sense.
 

lightbane

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Play Marathon instead.
As a person who actually finished the original (not AlephOne) version of the first Marathon on TC not so long ago, I've gotta say this. Gameplay-wise, Marathon is a fucking abomination (which, BTW, is vastly inferior to Pathways into Darkness in almost every way) that should just fucking die.

I'm glad to see I'm not the only one to think the same! A few months ago I began playing Marathon 1, but as you say, it is truly a chore, I found it quite weird and somewhat boring. In fact, I became stuck in a level whose name I do not remember (I believe it was shortly after the Sunbath one), in which you're supposed to operate levers placed randomly on the entire level, in order to raise a bunch of platforms so you can access the upper level. The problem is that it's not very clear where exactly you have to put these things so that you can use them as stepping ladders and if you make a mistake, you have to go back and mess with these switches, over and over! At that point I lost interest and I just stopped playing. Should I give a chance to the sequel, or is it as terribad as the 1st game?
 
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Half-Life 1 is worth trying for both itself and some good single-player mods and map packs, like Heart of Evil*, it is almost as fun as Unreal. However, Half-Life 2 isn't worth wasting time even with the demo.

*Guilty pleasure maybe, but I thought the Zombie+Apocalypse Now vibe was cool and that it had good gameplay, which on the hardest game difficulty it was seriously frightening and tense.

Although the ALIENS! explanation for the zombies wasn't very cool

Good times, although sometimes I wondered back and forth the map to finally make my way to another section. The zombies were eating bullets like crazy.
HL had probably one of the best mod scenes ever - They Hunger, Point of View, Absolute Redemption, Poke 646, Escape from Darkness. And many, many more. I still have all of them on discs, waiting for a replay. People creativity was really bringing something good on the table.
 

iqzulk

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Should I give a chance to the sequel, or is it as terribad as the 1st game?
First of all, I have a writeup on Marathon 2 here (+screens).

Secondly, tl:dr incoming.
Well, first of all, keep in mind that Marathon 2 is a true sequel. As in: the game with basically the same combat mechanics and very similar gamedesign. On a plus side, Marathon 2: Durandal is probably as far as you could polish this particular turd.

First of all, the controls in M2 were much more fluid and responsive (I am talking about Win95 version of M2 compared to Basilisk2-emulated Mac version of M1), there is less inertia, and moreover, for the majority of the game you a have kind of a normal gravity, so the fighting upon the rugged terrain is now at least somewhat tolerable. The motion detector also works much better now and is actually quite useful.

The weapons stayed more or less the same (with the addition of one new gun and a complete remake of another gun you haven't seen anyway). Some of the most annoying/useless enemies from the first game (wasps and hulks/drinniols, maybe also some others) are also gone - and a fair bunch of others got introduced. All the enemies and guns were remodeled - and, moreover, guns now have sounds which are actually quite nice and well done.

Remember how the first game was this collection of grey and brown walls, etc? Well, the second one swaps sceneries very frequently (some of the levels even feel quite a bit similar to the first Unreal game). Moreover, the enemies are also rotated between the levels quite actively. So, on this level, you fight these guys. And on that level - those and those guys (and you haven't seen those guys, for, like, 5 or 8 levels!). And it's just really well done in terms of variety. Oh, and there is no background music during the gameplay now, only the ambient noise.

Level-design-wise, those square intersections of dozens of extremely narrow maintenance tunnels, that were quite frequent in M1, also got ditched - and the majority of maps are pretty much easily navigateable without a mini-map.

Comparing level-design of two games in general... Well, the first game for me is a game of two (or rather two-and-a-half) really special levels, which served as natural culminations for it. The first of those special levels for me was G4 Sunbathing - and the other one-and-a-half you haven't seen (so there's no point in elaborating them). And everything other than that for me was kind of meh. In contrast to that, the second Marathon kinda doesn't have any particular highlights. It's really varied and entertaining and the levels are really different from each other - BUT there aren't any levels you can point your finger on and say "OK, this, right here, in one way or another, is a culmination to the game". It just kinda flows one into another naturally and keep you interested, and in general, M2's level-design is really much more varied and entertaining, but there just aren't any G4 Sunbathings, if you catch my meaning. Also, one other thing that is quite telling is that one of M2's relative highlight levels is memorable for the sole reason of being a (smart) throwback to one of M1's highlight levels, putting a different spin on it.

Another thing is that, in contrast to M1 (which started really damn hardcore - on the max difficulty, the beginning segment between the starting point and the first save terminal was one of the hardest portions of the game for me), M2 starts kinda relaxed, casual and "nice". However, don't count on it being that way throughout the whole game: it gains momentum in just a couple of levels, and its most difficult moments are easily as infuriating as those from the first game (remember that "Bob-B-Q" level, the one that follows shortly after "G4 Sunbathing", when Leela drops you into a fucking killzone? well, there will be a VERY similar level here as well), and the traps from the first game are also VERY much intact.

What else... Well, there is a significant addition here gamedesign-wise. Or rather a switch. There aren't any vacuum levels, but there are liquids now. And yes, you do need oxygen for breathing in liquids. And you can't use anything except for your fists there, which, as you can probably imagine, makes the liquids quite problematic. Moreover, sometimes the water level is set in such a way, so that it constantly "flickers" "now you are above liquid, now you are under it"-style, which gets really damn infuriating really damn quick. Oh, and keep in mind that the water surface intercepts all the bullets and detonates any explosives, so don't fire the assault rifle's grenade launcher in chest-high water. As you can see, the whole "liquid" thing is not very well thought out, and it can really get in a way sometimes, but it still does sort of work for the overall "variety" thing.

And, about puzzles, there are some attempts to introduce them here and there, but there isn't anything even remotely as terribad as that "Colony Ship for Sale, Cheap" you were talking about earlier (of course I remember that monstrosity!).

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now, as to whether you should start this game, not having completed the first Marathon. The answer is "Absolutely NOT". Marathon 2 is a direct sequel, continuing the story threads from the first game and putting a nicely rounded (even if somewhat drastic) resolution upon them (also, keep in mind, that M2's resolution was supposed to be the canon ending to the series - and that the idea of Marathon Infinity, as a sort of "add-on" only came later, when Bungie decided they needed something to bundle with Marathon's level editor they wanted to release). You should, at the very least, read all the terminal messages from the first game: you can find all of them HERE. Moreover, in order to appreciate that "throwback moment" I was talking about earlier, you'll need to actually watch a playthrough of a couple of Marathon's levels.

I can actually recommend this let's play, which was really damn entertaining for me even considering that I've already beaten the game by the time I watched it. You'll need to watch the chunk starting with "Neither High, Nor Low" - and ending with "Ain't Got Time Pfhor This" (you can skip "No Artificial Colors" and "Beware of Low-Flying Defense Drones"), which would take a bit less than 2 hours of your time. Keep in mind that the guy was absolutly abhorring the game by that moment - and also keep in mind the he was playing AlephOne version with (hnnnnnnnng!) ugly filtering and absolutely botched scripting (a couple of levels from the aforementioned chunk, while being at least somewhat adequate in the original Mac Marathon, are absolutely fucking broken in his version).

Is it worth it to try to finish the first Marathon yourself? I'd say it really-really isn't. There is half of the game still left - and believe me, if you played on one of the higher difficulties, it still has more than enough in it to drink a couple more liters of your blood. Marathon is just a game with a problematic and a borderline broken core - and not a very carefully done one either. Although it does have at least a couple of its moments.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As for Marathon 2: Durandal, it's also a problematic and, at times, borderline broken game with rotten core - but it's a game in which it's evident that they really-really-REALLY tried, which makes it interesting at least from the artistic/design standpoints. Keep in mind, that the most famous aspect of Marathon series - the story - is indeed quite a bit better here, compared to the previous game (and yes, I'd say, the FPS genre at the time of M2's release couldn't offer anything comparable to that anyway). However, it's still evident, that the story was written by an amateur writer (also, both M2 and M:Infinity scripts start with slight retcons to the endings of previous games), and some aspects of its delivery are sometimes quite questionable. However, the ending and resolution (despite how bold it was) were really enjoyable for me - and overall, I'd say, I'll always remember this game with at least some warmth. Even though its core is almost as rotten as it was in the first game.

Win95 official port is absolutely fine if you can make it run on whatever OS you are using (XP works fine, dunno about later systems) - and if you'll use AlephOne port, FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, please, don't use retextures, texture filtering (set the renderer to "Software") and transparent liquids. You'll just butcher the graphics (which are really quite nice in this game).

Also, I really, really advise you to play Pathways into Darkness when you have the possibility. It's really a MUCH better game, than Marathon 1, in almost every respect (other than level geometry and engine sophistication), and it's just unbelievable to me, that such a game was made by a team of just 3 people (with the majority of work done by just one) and released half a year before DooM 1. It's one of the best FPS games I've ever played, period - and I simply don't understand, why in the name of fucking hell (well, other than "nobody played the fucking thing") it isn't remember as one of the timeless staples of FPS genre and as one of the breakthroughs in FPS design (alongside the aforementioned DooM - which, BTW, kinda pales in comparison on a lot of aspects). It's a silky smooth (and with true 640x480 support) and perfectly playable game with perfect responsive controls, highly unusual AND enjoyable combat (constant maneuvering and evading enemy projectiles in the web of intertwining narrow pathways), tasty dungeoncrawling elements, gameplay shifting and changing with almost every level while being connected to the storyline at the same time, and gamedesigning decisions which are really transparent and just follow naturally from the fantastical situation that the game attempts to simulate. In some sense, it's kind of "Ultima Underworld Shooter" with all the shooting-related parts extremely well done. It doesn't have all the DooM's awesome sound design and music (or any kind of music at all), and its engine is closer to Wolf3D than to DooM (with its lightmaps and Z-axis), but it really, really starts getting to you after a couple of levels. Seeing Marathon after that game was extremely disheartening - and I still simply don't quite understand just how the hell Bungie managed to fall the way they did between these two games.

If you decide to play that game one day, I really advise you to go for the original 1993 version of the game, the one WITHOUT textured floors and ceilings. They make the game look waaay too cramped and claustrophobic - and this game is tense and stressful enough as it is, without a constant feeling-of-being-literally-trapped-in-a-cage getting on your nerves. Not to mention that 1993 version IS the version made by a team of 3 people - and 1995 version is simply kind of not.
 
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octavius

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Also, I really, really advise you to play Pathways into Darkness when you have the possibility. It's really a MUCH better game, than Marathon 1, in almost every respect (other than level geometry and engine sophistication), and it's just unbelievable to me, that such a game was made by a team of just 3 people (with the majority of work done by just one) and released half a year before DooM 1. It's one of the best FPS games I've ever played, period - and I simply don't understand, why in the name of fucking hell (well, other than "nobody played the fucking thing") it isn't remember as one of the timeless staples of FPS genre and as one of the breakthroughs in FPS design (alongside the aforementioned DooM - which, BTW, kinda pales in comparison on a lot of aspects).

Maybe because it was made exclusively for Apple Macintosh computers?
Wasn't 1993 in that era when "nobody" used Macs except artists; before hipsters and teen girls decided their lives have no meaning without a Mac?
 

Unkillable Cat

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Yes. Yes it was. Only kids whose parents got a Mac and didn't have a "real" gaming platform played games on the Mac.

And how has that turned out? More than 25 years later and the number of Mac-exclusive titles worth playing can be counted on one hand.
 

Lyric Suite

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Half Life was a great game. Suck it up fags, because its the trooth.
 

tuluse

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Maybe because it was made exclusively for Apple Macintosh computers?
Wasn't 1993 in that era when "nobody" used Macs except artists; before hipsters and teen girls decided their lives have no meaning without a Mac?
It was right before that time from my recollection. Windows 95 hadn't come out yet, and IBM clones were a lot harder to use, so Macs still had some mainstream appeal.
 

gromit

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So, what you are saying, is that's it's mandatory to play this game just because it became oh-so-popular?
I'm saying that if you're going to talk games, it's kind of silly to be incapable of talking about one with an inarguably large impact.
Assassin2015
Great. Wonderful. Next time I'll pay an entire paragraph's worth of lip-service to mentioning that other games did a lot of the same stuff, without having much of an effect on the industry. I only wrote half a sentence on that, because it's largely irrelevant. Like I said, ideas are a dime a dozen, and getting people to notice / listen / follow is the part that takes some doing. (Inb4 "wow yeah it's so hard to make something shit enough that shit-eaters will eat the shit" etc.)

I'll give you this: Chahi made an impact as well. That doesn't mean Half-Life didn't, or that it didn't make a bigger impact. Externally at least -- excluding hipsters, AW has always gotten name-dropped more by developers citing influences, than consumers. (Not that most of them did anything with its ideas.) That's just the way it is; "unfair" as it is to whoever did it first. (Frankly I find the idea itself -- "tell stories with our actual medium, instead of inserting books and movies" -- to be pretty damned obvious... but apparently easier said than done.)

hey are going to talk about, say, "ludonarrative dissonance" (...) for decades as well. So what?
You know, before it had a catchphrase, and you had to explain yourself just to mention the notion, "ludonarrative dissonance" was a pretty popular thing to rail against here. It is, in fact, nauseatingly retarded for an author/team to constantly swap the "rules" of their fiction in and out, simply because the they couldn't be arsed to make anything coherent. So if you feel like pretending it's a non-issue, keep your mouth the fuck shut about it next time a violent free-roamer has unkillable NPCs, or your impeccable character gets plot-shanked "because STORY."

As an aside, the conversation around it wouldn't be as fucking stupid, if insight wasn't buried under parroting. To that end, yes, please stay out of the discussion, because screaming like a toddler over the very existance of an adjective-noun pairing, is not going to help that happen. Neither will dragging in this hang-up about sexism you've picked up wherever... my guess would be from reading "overeducated" but under-thought sensationalist articles, then electing to have screaming matches with attention-addicts. Or it could also just be that you're a terrible sexist, thriving on faux-justification when an extreme voice says or does something stupid.

That might be my new guess, actually: you don't seem very good at reading things at face value, without dragging in a bunch of shit you shouldn't have bothered to read.

The rest is just
[misdirected rage_mode]
so forgive me for not bothering. Maybe if I didn't try to amuse myself by subverting a thing often said by idiots, opposing idiots wouldn't feel the urge to make me an effigy and bark down my throat about how they don't like so-and-so a game.
 
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iqzulk

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gromit said:
I'm saying that if you're going to talk games, it's kind of silly to be incapable of talking about one with an inarguably large impact.
It's important, and being unable to talk about it with any direct experience -- especially in a place essentially dedicated to thinking too hard about videogames -- should be an embarrassment (in a very low-key way.)
Oooooooooooohhhhhhh. I see it now. OK then. Would you like to tell me what your hi-score is in the original Elektronika-60 version of Tetris? Of course, not having any direct experience with such an important game would truly be an embarrassment (in a very low-key way) and kind of silly for you, moreover, for any well-versed-in-videogaming-arts person in general, now wouldn't it? Especially, you know, considering everything said above by yourself.

Also, I beg of you, please, indulge my simple-midnedness, but could you benevolently point me to the portions of your messages in this thread where you were, well, you know, like, well, (whispering) "talking games"? You know, not, like, the highbrow and awfully important "cultural impact" stuff and all the notions of the utmost necessity to play
important
games based exclusively on their extraordinary buzz value, but rather, you know, actually communicating information about the games, based on the direct experience and all that stuff. I just don't seem to be able to discern any such stuff from your messages due to my utmost ignorance and apparent inability to read. Oh, wait, I guess parallels between Half-Life and Citizen Kane, with all the juicy "techniques sprinkled with flavor" argumentation, totally count. Silly me!

Like I said, ideas are a dime a dozen, and getting people to notice / listen / follow is the part that takes some doing.
Oh, and now you seem to be suggesting that marketing a game takes more work than actually making it. Those sweet droplets of True Wisdom!

Also, please, forgive my stupidity once again, oh Wise and Well Read One, but could you elaborate, even if only for a little bit, on what this beautiful passage
But not as sure as I am that within a year of its release, Kingpin wasn't even worth the asterisk to make it a footnote
ah, what a marvel, I would never be able to word it so eloquently myself - but I digress - could actually mean (especially considering the implied definition of "worthiness")? My skull appears to be just a little bit too thick for the meaning to get through, so me sad.
 
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Unkillable Cat

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As if replying in a condescending, patronizing and sarcastic manner isn't reason enough to just ignore you completely, you also pull out Straw Man arguments, twist words and jump to conclusions to try to dodge the points being thrown at you. And you expect a reply?

Despite all that, you sound like someone who has something interesting to say but due to you being full of shit none of the interesting stuff is getting across. Get an enema, count to ten, and try again.
 

gromit

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I apparently touched a nerve, without meaning to. Rest assured I don't think you're not smart; some of the smartest people I know are petulant and needlessly contrarian. Not sure if any of them are wholehearted to throw in italics and little script-notes, to specifically indicate when they've using a snotty voice, though. That's nice, well done.

So I hope you asked all the questions you wanted, because that's it. And, as you know, I'm, like, super well-esteemed and highbrow and therefore also important, and apparently worthy of singling out, so that's a loss.

Would you like to tell me what your hi-score is in the original Elektronika-60 version of Tetris?
The particulars of Tetris development are interesting only because the game became a sensation. I could write a good argument for how the Elektronika version is the most important for being its birthplace, or the PC versions for giving it a growing base, or the GB version for its role in establishing handheld gaming, or the NES version for, ha ha, coming this close to changing the general perception of video-gaming.

Even Grandma likes Tetris, until it gets too quick, but then it gets slow again. It's simple to play, gives you no more or less helpful information than the exact amount it should, and it ties difficulty, mood, pacing, and progression neatly together, while likely ultimately smiting you in the best of ways. The game can be (literally) randomly cruel or benevolent, but only truly has the sole intent of getting harder and harder until it breaks you... and that's part of its fun. (Tetris: two-button sex-themed roguelike set in Flatland?)

Anyway, no. I have not played Tetris on some weird fucking switching-station rack bullshit from the opposite side of the Cold War.

Of course, not having any direct experience with such an important game would truly be an embarrassment (in a very low-key way) and kind of silly for you, moreover, for any well-versed-in-videogaming-arts person in general, now wouldn't it? Especially, you know, considering everything said above by yourself.
It sure would. That's why I feel the appropriate response is to find the nearest thing that can play Tetris no matter what the fuck it is, and have them play it, and throw in a little "oh man, this game, (...)" for context. Not to tell them to skip it because Dr Mario is better, or that Tetris is a piece of shit for establishing an entire modality for casual gaming to come.

And also that it's okay if they don't like it, as that has no provable impact on whether or not they act like little fucking brats.

talking games
If you wanted a mechanical explanation, you should have quoted DraQ and asked him for a mechanical explanation, instead of quoting me, and asking me to defend empirical industry talk and farting about over what "matters" or not in the history and landscape of gaming.

suggesting that marketing a game takes more work than actually making it.
Suggesting, actually, that it takes more than a list of good ideas, or even a huge marketing campaign, to make a game have legs in the MOSTEST IMPORTANT ANNALS OF GAMING HISTORY.

Well. Important enough you know what Tetris was written on.
 
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Correct_Carlo

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The mute protagonist worked great in Half-Life 1 because plot sequences were minimal, but as the plot became more and more elaborate in Half-Life 2 and the Episodes the conceit became more and more strained. The episodes seemed to want to start taking the plot seriously, but if they are going to do that at some point someone is going to have to ask, "why the hell doesn't this guy ever say anything?" It'd maybe be plausible if he was some kind of mindless grunt, but he's supposed to be a brilliant PHD holding scientist. He should be able to articulate himself once in a while rather than just being shunted around and told what to do by other people. But having him talk would give him his own will, which would go completely against the "on-rails" philosophy of the series.

Which is part of the reason it's taken so long for Half-Life 3, I think. Valve realized that the central core of the series just wouldn't work as well today. Or it might work, but it'd be way less innovative and impressive.
 

tuluse

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I thought it was strongly implied that Freeman is mute. He is unable to talk.
 

Correct_Carlo

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I thought it was strongly implied that Freeman is mute. He is unable to talk.

If so it's a retcon from the sequels (although I don't remember it being addressed there one way or another, but it's been a while since I've played them). In the original game's manual, though, it mentions Freeman having a telephone conversation. I guess he could have been using one of those services for deaf/mute people, though.
 

Melan

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PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut Codex+ Now Streaming! Enjoy the Revolution! Another revolution around the sun that is. I helped put crap in Monomyth
[rage_mode]What's so "establishing" about basically copying Another World concept in 3D and blowing a 10hr game (which drags like mad for half of the time) out of it, especially considering, that it (along with pseudo-realistic set-pieces) has already been done two years before Half-Life (look up Assassin2015 from Vectorman devs on YouTube - you can also notice that this game managed to predict actual contemporary popamole-FPS trends much more accurately than Half-Life - up to the point when it looks like a mockery of the contemporary shooter genre gaming [made 17 years ago, no less])?
No kidding! Just look at the gameplay. It is beautiful, a perfect prediction of the dark future. Assassin 2015 is the true Citizen Kane of gaming.
:bravo:
 

Volrath

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Half-Life series, as it is right now, is a very good example of how you can make a immerisve game with a mute player character that's essentially a floating camera, hand and a whatever gun and also be more immersive than all the modern shooters with those first person cutscenes showing your character doing some dramatic shit like opening jammed doors or getting out of wrecked vehicle. It's also a nice point of reference to see how industry "changed". First game didn't age very well, sure. But Half-Life 2 still looks and plays better than most shooters nowadays. Crysis 2 is probably the first game that finally got better face animation quality. :roll:
Half Life destroyed a genre, fuck that shitty fucking game.
 

Seerix

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I'm still clicking that fake link of yours, it can get real any moment.
 

Kz3r0

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And someone complain about judging people posts by their join date.
 

Lyric Suite

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I thought it was strongly implied that Freeman is mute. He is unable to talk.

:hmmm:

The entire premise of the game is that everything that happens in the game is supposed to happen to the player, not the character, something modern fag developers don't seem to comprehend for some reason. There is no Gordon Freeman. You are Gordon Freeman.

And the reason it didn't work in the sequel is simply due the fact Half Life 2 was poorly done by comparison, no more, no less. Valve bought too much into their own hype and started pandering to the player from the get go. The game was so self conscious it bordered on parody at times.
 

dunno lah

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How can taking out an Apache with a prototype particle accelerator be considered mediocre and boring?
 

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