JA2 - the recommended build of 1.13

[MetalCraze]

I always thought the last playable build was 3042 that wasn't a complete buggy mess full of gimmicks breaking the balance of the game like every build since then (esp. retarded 4th gen NVGs and cassette grenade launchers)
But then some people said there were some bugs when trying to go deep into config.

So between 2112 which I remember as being pretty smooth and 3042 which build would you prefer?

 

[Khor1255]

687 for modders. I haven't played the popamole versions too much to give you an informed answer about post 2085 versions. I am slogging along with an easy mod for a newer version and (if I can get myself to play the thing for more than a few minutes) will check back here with my findings.

I hear that for players most of the newer versions work pretty well. But there are a lot of new bugs never before seen so I don't know how in depth the people who report no bugs are really playing. Ja2 tends to get more buggy the farther along you go particularly if you have a lot going on (big team, ongoing quests, etc) and was never a bug free game to begin with. So 'bug free version' is always a relative term when referring to this game.

 

[Yeesh]

I always thought the last playable build was 3042 that wasn't a complete buggy mess full of gimmicks breaking the balance of the game like every build since then (esp. retarded 4th gen NVGs and cassette grenade launchers)
But then some people said there were some bugs when trying to go deep into config.

So between 2112 which I remember as being pretty smooth and 3042 which build would you prefer?

Yeah I hate to rain on your elitist party, but when I played a few months ago I just downloaded the latest version and it worked pretty perfectly. 50+ hours, one crash, which is frankly astounding when you consider all the shit they've added in. But you're much more hardcore if you go find some older version that crashes more and tell yourself that that was the last good version before the newfags fucked it up. That's the only approach worthy of the Codex.

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

Yeah I hate to rain on your elitist party, but when I played a few months ago I just downloaded the latest version and it worked pretty perfectly. 50+ hours, one crash, which is frankly astounding when you consider all the shit they've added in. But you're much more hardcore if you go find some older version that crashes more and tell yourself that that was the last good version before the newfags fucked it up. That's the only approach worthy of the Codex.

 

[MetalCraze]

If they didn't take out the grenade launchers then it sucks the same. It was the most retarded addition to JA2 ever that completely fucked up the whole game.

 

[Topher]

If they didn't take out the grenade launchers then it sucks the same. It was the most retarded addition to JA2 ever that completely fucked up the whole game.

Why?

 

[MetalCraze]

Basically since the mid game it goes like this in 33xx:

2-3 (rarely 4) AIs carry grenade launchers with them. They are usually armed with gas or frag grenades with really huge area of effect. So if the battle goes in the open (which is like 3/4 of the time) - the enemy just fires at you and allied guerillas with them - and blam everything is covered in that shitty gas and a huge chunk of your fighters is now disabled and they are basically a targets on the shooting range for the enemy.

Needless to say that this works both ways and the game becomes piss easy if you arm yourself with them.

Much like 4th gen NVGs it just messes up the balance.

And then I also remember devs not fixing bugs in the game like a dreaded mailbox crash that according to Bear's Pit is there for 1.5 years and nobody cares about fixing it.

New features are more like gimmicks now that do more bad than good - it's like 1.13 devs are concentrated on adding as much shit into the game as possible while bothering little to check if it actually works.
JA2 was close to perfection in 2xxx

 

[zeitgeist]

And then I also remember devs not fixing bugs in the game like a dreaded mailbox crash that according to Bear's Pit is there for 1.5 years and nobody cares about fixing it.

That crash is getting really silly by now, I just experienced it yesterday (with the most recent beta). Other than that, no crashes or other noticeable glitches in 90+ in-game days with that one, except for one crash in the inventory, while doing something with the attachments that the game didn't expect me to do (I think I auto-sorted the inventory or moved a gun from the player to the sector inventory while keeping one of the attachment windows open or something like that, can't quite remember).

New features are more like gimmicks now that do more bad than good - it's like 1.13 devs are concentrated on adding as much shit into the game as possible while bothering little to check if it actually works.

A lot of "megamods" tend to end up like that, at least there's no Final Fantasy swords in it yet...

Does anyone know what happened to the http://ja2v113.pbworks.com site, btw? It's not very up-to-date, to put it mildly. Has it been abandoned in favor of some other wiki site I haven't heard of, or is there just no one interested in maintaining a wiki anymore?

 

[pipka]

You know there is included xml editor. You put 0 in right case and item never appears in tangos' inventories.

 

[MetalCraze]

a) Then why would I download 3xxx builds if I can just download older ones and have the same effect as with turning off features of the new ones?

b) I take it I can also put 0 in the right case and bugs will disappear too?

 

[Silellak]

c) Why do I insist on being a sarcastic ass to people who are just trying to give me honest, helpful advice?

 

[pipka]

a) Then why would I download 3xxx builds if I can just download older ones and have the same effect as with turning off features of the new ones?

Whatever, dude. It's not like I care what do you want to do.

b) I take it I can also put 0 in the right case and bugs will disappear too?

Theoretically yes. Practically no.

 

[The_scorpion]

So long as you're not trying to mod based on 1.13, the version you use matters little as far as stability is concerned.

Fire up the xml editor and get rid of the equipment choices you dislike. that's probably faster than hunting down that elusive one and only stable build. Nobody truly ever found one (and i've sure been looking)

 

[Phelot]

I always thought it was the sniper rifles that ruined JA2...

So is there a list of weapons included in the latest build? I'm not even sure which one I have right now. When was the last one released?

 

[Quilty]

I recently played one of the mods, Urban Chaos, and even though the initial stages are a little too linear for my taste, it was actually fun to not have access to all the gun porn. I loved sneaking through the entire map armed with just a knife, picking off enemies one by one. There's no drop all, so I'd get nothing but an occasional clip of ammo, but the moment I finally got my hands on a shitty shotgun with six slugs left was one of the best JA2 experiences. I'd recommend it if you're getting tired of being covered in weapons and ammo in 1.13.

 

[Korgan]

Yeah, 1.13 has really gone overboard with the gun porn a long time ago. If they changed the gameplay to something more realistic (lots of interrupts and counter-interrupts based on experience and conditions, proper pinning and supression, much improved stealth) it might have worked.

 

[Topher]

Ok question. I'm was playing 1.13 on expert and found it to be very difficult, not the tactics so much but in the enemies numerical superiority. Now I'm playing on experienced and I've waltzed through to the airport and it looks like I'm going to blow-through talking it over and blow-through holding it. Will it get challenging or will I need to play on a harder difficulty? Expert was really just a bit too hard for me but it was very close.

What should I do?

 

[GarfunkeL]

Yeah, 1.13 has really gone overboard with the gun porn a long time ago. If they changed the gameplay to something more realistic (lots of interrupts and counter-interrupts based on experience and conditions, proper pinning and supression, much improved stealth) it might have worked.

WTF, that is how it works in 1.13.

Fuck, just yesterday I realized that 1.13 added that LIGHTNING during thunderstorms improves visibility for a second - you can spot enemies and they can spot you, if they are suitably placed when the lightning strikes.

1) There is no such thing as too much gunporn.
2) There are lots of interrupts and counter-interrupts but it depends - GUESS WHAT? On experience level, weather, visibility.
3) There is "proper" pinning and suppression unless you disable it in the .xml files.
4) Stealth is fucking awesome - get camouflaged, go night, sneak in real-time towards the opponent, whack them with a throwing knife to the eye. What do you want to do, spraypaint their undies?

Will it get challenging

Conquer all of Drassen and give it few days. You'll have challenge :D But seriously, the game gets harder the closer you get to Meduna, so if its easy in the first few days, that doesn't mean much.

the enemy just fires at you and allied guerillas with them - and blam everything is covered in that shitty gas and a huge chunk of your fighters is now disabled and they are basically a targets on the shooting range for the enemy.

Why don't you carry gasmasks with you, you fucking retard?

Needless to say that this works both ways and the game becomes piss easy if you arm yourself with them.

Good luck getting enough ammo for them unless you play with awesome Bobby-Ray, not to mention they aren't any sort of insta-win button like you paint them to be, in the first place.

 

[zeitgeist]

Fuck, just yesterday I realized that 1.13 added that LIGHTNING during thunderstorms improves visibility for a second - you can spot enemies and they can spot you, if they are suitably placed when the lightning strikes.

I read that it's also supposed to blind you for a short while if you're wearing NVG when it strikes, haven't encountered it in-game though.

 

[Topher]

so if its easy in the first few days, that doesn't mean much.

That good to hear, I'm was really afraid "experienced" wouldn't be hard enough for me. I hate not feeling challenged.

 

[MetalCraze]

So long as you're not trying to mod based on 1.13, the version you use matters little as far as stability is concerned.

Fire up the xml editor and get rid of the equipment choices you dislike. that's probably faster than hunting down that elusive one and only stable build. Nobody truly ever found one (and i've sure been looking)

The real question - what are the cool features apart from the equipment they added to builds this year? Because for me it looked like there were just more guns and more bugs and that's it.

Ok question. I'm was playing 1.13 on expert and found it to be very difficult, not the tactics so much but in the enemies numerical superiority. Now I'm playing on experienced and I've waltzed through to the airport and it looks like I'm going to blow-through talking it over and blow-through holding it. Will it get challenging or will I need to play on a harder difficulty? Expert was really just a bit too hard for me but it was very close.

What should I do?

Play on Expert if you ever completed it on Experienced (or played long enough). Starting is maybe hard but when good equipment will start flowing in you won't have much problems completing the rest of the game - but it still will be challenging - on experienced it will be waaaay piss easy. Meduna will be the only problem if you'll just decide to conquer it (stealthing through it at night to the palace is easier) - but that's endgame.

You actually battle enemy numerical superiority by using tactics. And at first I'd recommend you to fight at night with some nightops merc if it's too hard for you just rushing in during the day - that's for attacking of course. For defending you'll have to manage somehow.

 

[spectre]

I always felt Expert just adds tedium and makes the game drag on for too long. Experienced with some minor tweaks to the ini (f.e. increase the % of elites) is the sweet spot for me.

 

[Korgan]

Yeah, 1.13 has really gone overboard with the gun porn a long time ago. If they changed the gameplay to something more realistic (lots of interrupts and counter-interrupts based on experience and conditions, proper pinning and supression, much improved stealth) it might have worked.

WTF, that is how it works in 1.13.

Fuck, just yesterday I realized that 1.13 added that LIGHTNING during thunderstorms improves visibility for a second - you can spot enemies and they can spot you, if they are suitably placed when the lightning strikes.

1) There is no such thing as too much gunporn.
2) There are lots of interrupts and counter-interrupts but it depends - GUESS WHAT? On experience level, weather, visibility.
3) There is "proper" pinning and suppression unless you disable it in the .xml files.
4) Stealth is fucking awesome - get camouflaged, go night, sneak in real-time towards the opponent, whack them with a throwing knife to the eye. What do you want to do, spraypaint their undies?

2) Should be even more opportunities, even on aiming for a second or turning around. Basically, every time a character spends any AP, enemies should get a chance to react, either ducking, moving a little or getting off a quick shot.
3) It should also reduce accuracy and AP considerably except for the bravest and most experienced characters. Does it now?
4) In real time? Sounds great, didn't notice that.

 

[GarfunkeL]

2) Granted. Slightly annoying is that if you get an interrupt, you have to use it - you cannot let the enemy get a little closer

3) Yes. The first message is "XYZ is cowering" and the second is "XYZ is pinned down!" You can tweak in the .ini how much suppression people can take before either cowering or pinned. Experience levels affect this - so a lvl1 merc will be pinned down very easily, while lvl10 mercs only get unnerved after some proper burst-fire. Also, friendly fire can have the same effect so you might want to avoid shooting right past your own guys if you can. In any case, it's very possible to get a merc into -140 AP which means s/he won't be acting for a while.

4) Yeah, you have to enable it in the .ini file. After that you can use ALT+CTRL+SHIFT+T to switch between real-time/normal and forced TB. Because when you sneak in RT, it's often a good idea to force TB on before attacking the enemies.

 

[Topher]

So long as you're not trying to mod based on 1.13, the version you use matters little as far as stability is concerned.

Fire up the xml editor and get rid of the equipment choices you dislike. that's probably faster than hunting down that elusive one and only stable build. Nobody truly ever found one (and i've sure been looking)

The real question - what are the cool features apart from the equipment they added to builds this year? Because for me it looked like there were just more guns and more bugs and that's it.

Ok question. I'm was playing 1.13 on expert and found it to be very difficult, not the tactics so much but in the enemies numerical superiority. Now I'm playing on experienced and I've waltzed through to the airport and it looks like I'm going to blow-through talking it over and blow-through holding it. Will it get challenging or will I need to play on a harder difficulty? Expert was really just a bit too hard for me but it was very close.

What should I do?

Play on Expert if you ever completed it on Experienced (or played long enough). Starting is maybe hard but when good equipment will start flowing in you won't have much problems completing the rest of the game - but it still will be challenging - on experienced it will be waaaay piss easy. Meduna will be the only problem if you'll just decide to conquer it (stealthing through it at night to the palace is easier) - but that's endgame.

You actually battle enemy numerical superiority by using tactics. And at first I'd recommend you to fight at night with some nightops merc if it's too hard for you just rushing in during the day - that's for attacking of course. For defending you'll have to manage somehow.

Then I will probably switch to Expert. Like I said it wasn't tactics that were causing me trouble (I was winning my fights) but they just keep coming and I'm loosing the was of attrition. I don't have time to heal or repair gear before the next wave hits. Short of save scumming to keep my mercs healed I couldn't see how I was supposed to stand up to the onslaught. If it does get easier as my gear advances then I'll switch back because I really don't want a piss easy experience.

Two questions. What setting should I put Bobby Ray on for Expert and when making I.M.P mercs should a set skill I don't intend for them to use to zero for real min/max stats or leave them at 35? Any tips for I.M.P mercs would be useful.