JA2 - the recommended build of 1.13

[desocupado]

Are you playing with the drop all? Because that makes the game significantly easier.

I finished the game with the drop all, and bob rays on the one above the normal, on expert.

Without the drop all, the start is a bitch, when your mercs don't have any decent weapons.

Don't play on insane, it's not harder, just more aggravating. The enemies retake your sectors after you conquer them, and you never really progress.

 

[Topher]

Are you playing with the drop all? Because that makes the game significantly easier.

I finished the game with the drop all, and bob rays on the one above the normal, on expert.

Without the drop all, the start is a bitch, when your mercs don't have any decent weapons.

Don't play on insane, it's not harder, just more aggravating. The enemies retake your sectors after you conquer them, and you never really progress.

I'm playing with drop all. Should I set bobby rays that high? Some people tell me too while others seems to think it's best left to default?

 

[MetalCraze]

Topher do you play with Drassen counter-attack on? I think it's on by default so it makes the game much harder at the beginning when you take Drassen.

Other than that there should not be giant waves of enemies.

What you must do however in the beginning of the game to not get eventually overwhelmed by enemies is to dig in somewhere and train militia. Enemies will then hesitate to attack a well garrisoned sector. And even if they do it's much easier to defend because of the friendlies who provide at least some help.

 

[Topher]

Topher do you play with Drassen counter-attack on? I think it's on by default so it makes the game much harder at the beginning when you take Drassen.

Other than that there should not be giant waves of enemies.

What you must do however in the beginning of the game to not get eventually overwhelmed by enemies is to dig in somewhere and train militia. Enemies will then hesitate to attack a well garrisoned sector. And even if they do it's much easier to defend because of the friendlies who provide at least some help.

I do have the counter-attack on but that I haven't seen it yet. The waves weren't giant they were just constant, even with 10-20 militia. I was getting hit repeatedly by groups between 16-30 troops. I'd taken the airport and the mine but not the center sector. I've started over and I'm having a much easier time (on expert), I'd almost though I'd chosen the wrong difficulty (is there a way to check?). Must have been bad luck the other time...?

In the begging of the game I'd abandoned (more like lost) I'd killed 2-3 patrols along the road before taking the airport, thinking it would weaken the eventual counter-attack. I guess it just drew their attention.

 

[GarfunkeL]

Deidranna has a certain number of troops and they get replenished on a certain rate. You can check the .ini file for details. On INSANE she has unlimited amounts of black-shirts so attrition doesn't work - which is why that difficulty level can get really, really frustrating.

As to the IMP guy, you can have more than 1 but then that's sort of cheating as you don't need to pay them wages. Create either a good leader, who can quickly train Militia with Ira or then a solid night-time sniper/killer that's the backbone of your assault team.

As to Bobby Ray, do remember that Pablo will swipe stuff from you unless you keep him bribed and killing him doesn't really help as his successor will keep losing stuff through sheer incompetence and killing him will make Drassen turn hostile.

 

[MetalCraze]

Bribed? I punch the fucker in the face every time the bitch steals something from me. And then he brings all of my shit back and then some.

 

[Topher]

As to the IMP guy, you can have more than 1 but then that's sort of cheating as you don't need to pay them wages.

I have six.

 

[MetalCraze]

Cheater

 

[GarfunkeL]

Bribed? I punch the fucker in the face every time the bitch steals something from me. And then he brings all of my shit back and then some.

WHAT? WHY THE FUCK I HAVEN'T TRIED THAT DURING THE LAST 4,135 DAYS?!?!?!?!?

Brb, beating Pablo to an inch of his life.

 

[Topher]

Cheater

It didn't feel like cheating when all the soldiers came and gunned them down.

 

[Serus]

Yeah, 1.13 has really gone overboard with the gun porn a long time ago. If they changed the gameplay to something more realistic (lots of interrupts and counter-interrupts based on experience and conditions, proper pinning and supression, much improved stealth) it might have worked.

WTF, that is how it works in 1.13.

Fuck, just yesterday I realized that 1.13 added that LIGHTNING during thunderstorms improves visibility for a second - you can spot enemies and they can spot you, if they are suitably placed when the lightning strikes.

1) There is no such thing as too much gunporn.
2) There are lots of interrupts and counter-interrupts but it depends - GUESS WHAT? On experience level, weather, visibility.
3) There is "proper" pinning and suppression unless you disable it in the .xml files.
4) Stealth is fucking awesome - get camouflaged, go night, sneak in real-time towards the opponent, whack them with a throwing knife to the eye. What do you want to do, spraypaint their undies?

2) Should be even more opportunities, even on aiming for a second or turning around. Basically, every time a character spends any AP, enemies should get a chance to react, either ducking, moving a little or getting off a quick shot.
3) It should also reduce accuracy and AP considerably except for the bravest and most experienced characters. Does it now?
4) In real time? Sounds great, didn't notice that.

3) With full HAM options turned on - yes it does. Even with the defaults probably but less. HAM is now integral part of 1.13 but some of its options are disabled by default.

And don't listen to Skyway's whinning. Latest single clicks installer is stable. I finished the game on experienced, fought for every town including Meduna and had 2 or 3 crashes. Some mainstream games can crash as much as latest 1.13 does.

I'd almost though I'd chosen the wrong difficulty (is there a way to check?). Must have been bad luck the other time...?

Press "v" iirc. It displays the game version, difficulty and your "progress" value in points.

 

[SkeleTony]

Cheater

It didn't feel like cheating when all the soldiers came and gunned them down.

It is cheating in the sense that IMPs which you CREATE through that web site(used to involve a lame questionnaire in vanialla JA2) do not cost you wages(just 3k as a one time payment. Even the lowliest AIM guys cost more than that to hire at the beginning and also through their contract wages). Also IMPs start with better equipment(if you select the right skills/attributes) and shit.

You must have some harder settings set in your ini file for 1.13 if you are having that much difficulty. I recommend turning OFF the Drassen counter-attack. it does not really add anything to the game(more (horrendously long) combat...and at the beginning of the game?!) and will most assuredly be too much for a new player. This featire is sort of the JA equivalent to when someone creates and uploads a Heroes 3 map that is small and the player must start in the middle of the map with the usual level 1 troops but is surrounded by legions of black dragons and high level enemies. Yeah it is harder...but also stupid. Games should not be work.

EDIT: If you do decide to play a normal game with one(or two if you like) IMPs then hire one AIM merc who begins with great marksmanship and a really good rifle, even if you can only afford them for one day or one week. Then hire one or two other mercs to act as medic and mechanic.

I tend to prefer the following mercs:

HIGH GRADE MERCS(can only afford these for one day if purchased at the start of game):

Lynx - Great sniper. Good starting gear.

Scope - Amazing sniper.

Ivan - Great all-around soldier and very funny dialog stuff in game to boot.


MID-GRADE MERCS(can probably afford these guys for a single week-long contract at the start)

Thor - Cheap as hell for a guy with his wisdom and all around abilities. Is not disliked by anyone and does not dislike anyone else that I remember.

Buzz - Drawbacks are that she hates Lynx and she is a psycho. Will on rare occasions empty the clip into her enemies.

Raven - If you don't like Buzz or plan on getting Lynx at some point then take Raven. Good sniper with good gear you can probably get for a full week at the beginning. Or get her for one day and use the money elsewhere.


LOW END MERCS(these guys tend to cost a few thousand to get for a few weeks ...tops):

Barry - Great mechanic and Explosives expert. Great wisdom and cheap. Is not hated by anyone I can remember. He starts off as a crappy marksman but he gains in his skills quickly with his high wisdom..

Fox - Really the only reason to get her is because of her dialog and if you need a medic who can fire two guns at once. Starts off really bad as a marks-woman.

Bull - Strong as hell, can fight and starts with decent marksmanship. Not very wise but also starts with a Tommy gun at the beginning in 1.13. Second or third cheapest merc at AIM IIRC.

Igor - Ivan's brother(so works well if you plan on getting Ivan). Good wisdom and starting abilities all around. Cheap.


Really there are no bad choices(except taking guys who do not work together like Buns and Steroid or Buzz and Lynx).

 

[desocupado]

Are you playing with the drop all? Because that makes the game significantly easier.

I finished the game with the drop all, and bob rays on the one above the normal, on expert.

Without the drop all, the start is a bitch, when your mercs don't have any decent weapons.

Don't play on insane, it's not harder, just more aggravating. The enemies retake your sectors after you conquer them, and you never really progress.

I'm playing with drop all. Should I set bobby rays that high? Some people tell me too while others seems to think it's best left to default?

Bobby Ray's set to high makes good equipment available early. On one hand, if you get the best weapons early, it will make the game easier, on the other hand, if you have the drop all, it will probably be useless on a low setting.

My advice? Keep it on normal level or the one just above normal. No need to make a game with the drop all enabled easier.

 

[GarfunkeL]

Bull is the cheapest merc in AIM, unless I'm mistaken. He's the strongest merc too and is an hand-to-hand expert which is a nice bonus for the boxing ring in San Mona. The M1A1 .45 SMG is pretty shitty though. Sure, the range is little bit better than pistols but the damn gun is slow as hell and it's burst fire is pitiful. So do take him, he has a good price/expense-ratio but switch guns quickly. Igor[/ib] is the obvious choice, choice. Grizzly is another solid and cheap merc in the beginning. All three work well with Barry and Fox and with the IMP-guy, there's your starting team. Ira can be left behind to train militia.

Naturally, all tips like the stuff above should be disregarded because part of the fun is trying out different merc-combos to see what happens! Oh Meltdown, you psychotic man-hating bull duke, you!

 

[Silellak]

Confession: I played vanilla JA2 after I won it from GOG in a Codex contest, and loved it, but never finished it.

This thread is inspiring me to download 1.13 and give it another go.

 

[Awor Szurkrarz]

I modded my copy of JA2 to make mercs start with assault rifles. Arulco army got M16s and M60s. Also, I removed the respawning of army units. Simply, they have to do with what is available - the whole country is really tiny. There are towns with tens of people at the best but there are infinite hordes of soldiers. Hell, even one soldier per one civilian would be insane.

 

[Khor1255]

I once...


Oh God you people are so lame. Sit here and talk about some stupid cheat mod while the potential for real (new story) mods is being shit all over.

Well, maybe you liked the original game but you couldn't have liked the system if you are willing to go with what the current 1.13 team is doing to the modding potential of a once very promising mod base.


Pfffffffrfttt.

Dickheads! The lot of you.

Now we return you to your regularly scheduled whack a mole session.

 

[Serus]

I modded my copy of JA2 to make mercs start with assault rifles. Arulco army got M16s and M60s. Also, I removed the respawning of army units. Simply, they have to do with what is available - the whole country is really tiny. There are towns with tens of people at the best but there are infinite hordes of soldiers. Hell, even one soldier per one civilian would be insane.

What ? Towns with "tens of people" ? What are you talking about ? You are not really believing that Aruclo is shown in 1:1 scale in game ? Because if so then there are about a hundred people in the whole country... Maybe two hundreds. It is small but do you think Arulco has a few 100s citizens ? ROTFL! Arulco is not as tiny as you think - trained mercenaries need 20+ hours to travel from one side of the map to the other even if we ignore the fact that they can't march 20 hours without pause. It must be at least 50km from side to side of the map, It means that the territory is over 20 000 km2. We are talking here the size of Belgium category of country.

 

[zeitgeist]

while the potential for real (new story) mods is being shit all over.

Speaking of, is 1.13 externalized enough at this point that one could somewhat easily add various new NPCs and quests related to them? I remember there was talk of adding support for things like basic fetch quests, kill/bounty quests, escort quests etc. a long time ago, but nothing significant ever happened on that front, at least nothing I know of. How feasible is it to add NPCs with basic dialogue and some quests/missions right now?

I'd love to see the bounty system expanded on, for example, with more marks added, and with someone else other than Carmen giving out rewards. Perhaps some sort of an official MOST WANTED site on the laptop. Or even various mercs you hire informing you of a specific grudge against someone who's currently in the country.

 

[The_scorpion]

while the potential for real (new story) mods is being shit all over.

Speaking of, is 1.13 externalized enough at this point that one could somewhat easily add various new NPCs and quests related to them?

1.13 Did almost nothing in that regard. They mostly externalised item-related stuff and even there, the amount of hardcode that still remains in the game is astonishing.

There have been a few first steps. For custom RPC's, a rather important (at least as far as the looks are concerned) externalisation has been made.

For NPC's, one could probably use Mercprofiles.xml to add new ones but Mercprofiles is a rather poorly designed externalisation and lacks important data.i guess it is currently only used to add the lame Wildfire mercenaries as playables to AIM or MERC.
(Also i have a feeling that even if the new slots for NPC's do support all necessary data, people would seriously struggle scripting quests for them unless they really know what they're doing.)

Then, the gameinit.Lua script allows to change a few initial game placement routines and it probably also allows to add new routines, possibly for new characters.

pretty much nothing has happened for quests. That doesn't mean one can't add an unlimited number of fedex quests. That doesn't mean one can't script new cut scenes, custom endgames and other quests, it's been done in the past. but one has to use ja2's scripting engine for that and this is rather inaccesible for most people.

Some basic work is currently done to make the E-mail engine useful for quests, there will be another lua-script for this, sounds good.

So all in all, quest-related modding still mostly relies on vanilla-ja2 features, file types and tools from around 2002 or so. And you can see it in the fact that only very few mods use custom quests.

 

[Norfleet]

You must have some harder settings set in your ini file for 1.13 if you are having that much difficulty. I recommend turning OFF the Drassen counter-attack. it does not really add anything to the game(more (horrendously long) combat...and at the beginning of the game?!)

What are you talking about? The Drassen counter attacks are the most AWESOME fights in the entire game! If only the rest of the game had an awesome battle like that. I holed up on one of the buildings and barricaded paths to it with mines, forcing the enemies to come at me from only certain directions, detonated explosives on them when they passed by, and mowed them down with machine gun fire. GOOD times. If only the rest of the game didn't kinda wind slowly down, and there were more crazy battles like that.

 

[zeitgeist]

The Drassen counter attacks are the most AWESOME fights in the entire game! If only the rest of the game had an awesome battle like that. I holed up on one of the buildings and barricaded paths to it with mines, forcing the enemies to come at me from only certain directions, detonated explosives on them when they passed by, and mowed them down with machine gun fire. GOOD times. If only the rest of the game didn't kinda wind slowly down, and there were more crazy battles like that.

; New strategic AI

; This AI is capable of launching massive attacks (with reinforcements) at important sectors. Teams of several dozen enemies
; will assemble to attack your sector SIMULTANEOUSLY. This is similar to the Drassen Counterattack event, except it happens
; to every city, possibly several times during the campaign!
; When set to TRUE, this setting has the potential of making the game considerably harder.

Well, there's this, but I haven't tried it yet. Has anyone turned it on to see how it works?

but one has to use ja2's scripting engine for that and this is rather inaccesible for most people.

So all in all, quest-related modding still mostly relies on vanilla-ja2 features, file types and tools from around 2002 or so. And you can see it in the fact that only very few mods use custom quests.

Thanks for the info! Yeah, that's pretty much the impression I had - that this portion of the game is still not in a state that's accessible to newbie modders, which is a shame since JA2 could be greatly improved with some more actual RPG-like content of that sort.

 

[Norfleet]

; New strategic AI

; This AI is capable of launching massive attacks (with reinforcements) at important sectors. Teams of several dozen enemies
; will assemble to attack your sector SIMULTANEOUSLY. This is similar to the Drassen Counterattack event, except it happens
; to every city, possibly several times during the campaign!
; When set to TRUE, this setting has the potential of making the game considerably harder.

Well, there's this, but I haven't tried it yet. Has anyone turned it on to see how it works?

Not as well as the Drassen one. There's just something about the Drassen one that's special. The other towns aren't as accessible, and so the attack waves tend to break up, so you don't get that massed assault feel. It just isn't the same.

 

[The_scorpion]

but one has to use ja2's scripting engine for that and this is rather inaccesible for most people.

So all in all, quest-related modding still mostly relies on vanilla-ja2 features, file types and tools from around 2002 or so. And you can see it in the fact that only very few mods use custom quests.

Thanks for the info! Yeah, that's pretty much the impression I had - that this portion of the game is still not in a state that's accessible to newbie modders, which is a shame since JA2 could be greatly improved with some more actual RPG-like content of that sort.

The quest and npc interaction system is already quite elaborated and would allow to use/ implement more "classic" RPG elements. The standard game only uses this very scarcely, but there are a few examples where modders can play with this and add e.g. strenght checks where an NPC gives an answer only if the merc talking to him is rather strong (use this together with the "threaten" approach and you get a acceptable collar-grabbing sheme, although the pablo-beating-him-up" also counts for collar-grabbing IMO)
You can also limit/ define dialogue lines by gender of the talking Merc or, for a few specific PC's also by their identity. E.g. dialogue that can only be activated by a specific merc doing the talking (think of irina in renegade republic, but there are other examples)
Within certain limits, we can even turn ja2's monologue system into a dialogue system with PC's responding to the NPC's dialogue with quotes of their own. Though you can't *pick* dialogue lines within that system yet. Also adding it to the game in a noteworthy scale... well... but it works

Personally, i consider the scripting part of the quests/ npc interaction system to be quite challenging so even if put in a more accessible format, i don't know how "easy" it would be because of it being tricky on the logics level. The long term goal seems to be to have much more flexible scripting engine altogether using .lua. But i dunno if anyone is actually working on that

 

[Topher]

I've only had two crashes with the newest 1.13 single click installer, so no big deal there.

I made every single .ini change designed to make the game harder. With the strategic AI it seems that they will launch additional counter attacks. I've fended off several (consisting of quite a few troops and multiple waves) at the airport.