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Review Jade Empire review

POOPERSCOOPER

Prophet
Joined
Mar 6, 2003
Messages
2,875
Location
California
The Master replay thing isn't supposed to be balanced, VD. It's basically so you can replay the game real quick and be one of the fags who are like "i play games for the art and story." It's kinda like a god mode, I guess. It shouldn't have been one of the reasons the game is bad, though I didn't read your review. If you want to replay the game with regular difficulty maybe make a new characters? lewl


Even without the Master mode the game was easy as hell, a lot of times i didn't even level up my character for awhile cause I didn't know what skills i should put more point into. I still got by with mostly ease, I only had some decent difficulty on a couple fights.

The game had like an extra 5 hours added onto it because of the spoken dialog. Even though spoken dialog is cool it becomes a real pain in the ass after awhile especially if there is a lot of text they want to say. I don't remember having that much of a problem with KOTOR's spoken dialog but that was mostly gibberish fake languages that you could speed through WHILE MAINTAINING THE IMMERSION.
 

Greatatlantic

Erudite
Joined
Feb 21, 2005
Messages
1,683
Location
The Heart of It All
omega3 said:
This review was embarrasing. There's a difference between criticizing the shortcomings of a game and obsessively nitpicking even the tiniest, most trivial details you can find, and doing it in the most negative way possible.

Though others have already welcomed you to the Codex, they didn't exactly tell you what that meant. Let me fill in those blanks.

This is RPGCodex, an online COMMUNITY of PC RPG connoisseurs, not a professional publication of "reviewers" made to inform the general public in exchange for advertisement revenue. No, the reviews are written for a hard core minority who have come to expect the very critical commentary routinely doled out here in an official capacity or informally in this forum. And believe it or not, the review was a lot more positive then it could have easily been. We aren't interested in whether or not the game was "fun", any other review will tell you that. We want to hear about the RPG qualities and all the other nitty gritty. Don't like that? Go to IGN and read their reviews.
 

omega3

Novice
Joined
Jun 9, 2007
Messages
6
Greatatlantic said:
This is RPGCodex, an online COMMUNITY of PC RPG connoisseurs, not a professional publication of "reviewers" made to inform the general public in exchange for advertisement revenue. No, the reviews are written for a hard core minority who have come to expect the very critical commentary routinely doled out here in an official capacity or informally in this forum. And believe it or not, the review was a lot more positive then it could have easily been. We aren't interested in whether or not the game was "fun", any other review will tell you that. We want to hear about the RPG qualities and all the other nitty gritty. Don't like that? Go to IGN and read their reviews.
How exactly is RPGCodex any better than IGN (for the sake of argument I'll go along with the idea that IGN is employed by shills who are paid by publishers to hype games, which you seem to be implying)? If IGN is being unreasonably positive about the games they review, you're being unreasonably negative. Neither extreme gives players an informed or realistic view of the game.

The Oblivion review I read actually conceded that the game has some good qualities, whereas the Jade Empire review complained about the most insanely trivial, minute details, and even managed to find some way of whining about game balance in an optional feature that's not supposed to be balanced, which is quite an achievement. It's like me reviewing a game's deathmatch mode and complaining about a lack of teamplay.

It was a poorly done review by any standard.
 

Volourn

Pretty Princess
Pretty Princess Glory to Ukraine
Joined
Mar 10, 2003
Messages
24,992
"How exactly is RPGCodex any better than IGN"

'Cause Codexers believe it to be so so it is so... so?
 

Deacdo

Liturgist
Joined
Oct 24, 2004
Messages
585
It was a cool idea. Too bad the combat system failed on every level.
 

kris

Arcane
Joined
Oct 27, 2004
Messages
8,896
Location
Lulea, Sweden
Fanboy3 said:
How exactly is RPGCodex any better than IGN (for the sake of argument I'll go along with the idea that IGN is employed by shills who are paid by publishers to hype games, which you seem to be implying)?

If IGN is being unreasonably positive about the games they review, you're being unreasonably negative. Neither extreme gives players an informed or realistic view of the game.

Hi Fanboy.

That it is unreasonably negative is just within your mind. I liked Jade Empire, but I still agree on most points presented by VD on the game.
 

omega3

Novice
Joined
Jun 9, 2007
Messages
6
And now, when there are no more arguments to be presented, the flaming starts.

Jade Empire is one of my favorite games, but I'm not a fanboy. The review just sucks ass, as I have articulated previously. You can barely even call it a review, it's more like an obsessive nitpicker's ultimate list of every single real and imagined problem in the game.
 

sheek

Arbiter
Joined
Feb 17, 2006
Messages
8,659
Location
Cydonia
omega3 said:
How exactly is RPGCodex any better than IGN (for the sake of argument I'll go along with the idea that IGN is employed by shills who are paid by publishers to hype games, which you seem to be implying)? If IGN is being unreasonably positive about the games they review, you're being unreasonably negative. Neither extreme gives players an informed or realistic view of the game.

[snip]

It was a poorly done review by any standard.

Go fuck yourself.

The RPGCodex isn't out to compete with IGN, for one Role-Player is not getting paid for his reviews. I doubt he cares what you think of his 'bias' or whether his readers go out and buy Jade Empire anyway... he has no responsibility to you. He is a true-school RPG patriot stating the objective facts for those who care about RPGs. If you don't like real RPGs there's you have the rest of the internet to play with.
 

KazikluBey

Cipher
Patron
Joined
Feb 10, 2007
Messages
792
PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015
omega3 said:
The Oblivion review I read actually conceded that the game has some good qualities
RPG Codex JE review said:
While generally being an entertaining action adventure title, does it succeed in the role-playing aspect?
That's the closing of the second paragraph. He conceded it was an entertaining action adventure already in the introduction! The actual review focuses mainly on the role playing aspects, as it should on an RPG site. The fact that it goes in to the nitty gritty of how the game does its thing is a strength, not a flaw.
 

omega3

Novice
Joined
Jun 9, 2007
Messages
6
sheek said:
Go fuck yourself.
Don't cry. :cry:

When I originally read the NMA article about Bethesda, I was suprised that they would blacklist fansites like RPG Codex, but I can now see that blacklisting RPG Codex was the sensible thing to do. Who the fuck wants to listen to your infantile tantrums or read the shit that passes for "reviewing" around here?

Goodbye.
 

Fez

Erudite
Joined
May 18, 2004
Messages
7,954
We will miss you and your wonderful contributions here forever, treasured and beloved guest of the forum. I don't know how we will manage without you.

6/15 NEVER FORGET - the day sheek broke omega3. :cry:

We will sing songs, feast and build monuments to honor your memory and deeds. You were a true patriot.
icon_salut.gif
 

Diogo Ribeiro

Erudite
Joined
Jun 23, 2003
Messages
5,706
Location
Lisboa, Portugal
omega3 said:
There's a difference between criticizing the shortcomings of a game and obsessively nitpicking even the tiniest, most trivial details you can find, and doing it in the most negative way possible.

So, at what point does a review aiming at being thorough instead of replicating an IGNesque implication the game is faultless becomes “obsessive”?


A good example is the way Tho Fan is scrutinized to the point of insanity

I guess I could’ve remained sane and let it slide, but I decided that raving lunacy and psychotic episodes were a small price to pay to express how I felt.

Tho Fan is a feature of the game that received a considerable level of publicity during development. Choosing not to evaluate such a feature extensively and how well it is integrated into the game would be comparable to neglecting, say, the Radiant AI in an Oblivion review. It’s also one of the features directly responsible for the cohesion of the setting, a setting which was meant to illustrate Bioware’s aptitude at developing their own intellectual properties. In that regard, I believe it failed and merely explained why.


The game gives you the option to start a new game with all the styles and attributes you gained during your previous game, but even this optional bonus feature is seen as a bad thing because it imbalances the game, as if balance is supposed to be some kind of consideration in a New Game+.

Nowhere in the review does it say the feature is bad – it quite simply points out that it shouldn’t be expected to be balanced. Which is unfortunate, since it neglects character development regardless of how fun it may be.


Resident Evil 4 has the same option, and at best you can play through the game with special weapons that have infinite ammo and ridiculous destructive power. Chrono Trigger lets you breeze through the game with high level characters using the best possible equipment. It's not supposed to be balanced, it's supposed to be fun, and a bonus for people who've taken the time to play through the game.

Not a very good example. In Chrono Trigger’s New Game+, all characters still use their own Techs. Chrono may be incredibly powerful but will never be able to learn Omega Flare nor will he use weapons which he cannot wield. The same can’t be said of Jade Empire where the main character can, for instance, retain Styles that are forbidden by his alignment. Do both lack balance? Yes, but it’s much more evident in Jade Empire.


The review just sucks ass, as I have articulated previously.

“Articulate” would imply you clearly expressed your concerns over the review when this wasn’t the case, since all you complained about was:

  • how Tho Fan was given too much of a spotlight – which I’ve already explained why, since it was a major selling point and as such required more attention than other features;
  • how the review presents Master mode as a bad thing – which I’ve already pointed out to be false, since I never wrote it;
  • how the review nitpicks about minute and trivial details, and about every possible real and imaginable problem – which is utterly vague since it doesn’t really expose the specifics of your complaints.

If anything, the thing you’ve managed to articulate well was a lasting sense of... What was it? “Obsessive nitpicking” over such an optional feature, one that I don’t even go into great depths.


The Oblivion review I read actually conceded that the game has some good qualities

As opposed to my review which doesn’t list any positive qualities?


Who the fuck wants to listen to your infantile tantrums or read the shit that passes for "reviewing" around here?

Hey, it's an optional review. Don't like it, don't read it!


Warning: no reviewer’s sanity was harmed when writing this post.
 

dragonfk

Erudite
Joined
Jun 19, 2007
Messages
2,487
Nice review. Truth to be told i agreed with almost every point you made.

Re: omega
Reviews are personal opinions based on personal tastes. So if you dont like it, write your own. Suppose your 'unbiassed' review could make it to RPGCodex as an antidote for the one RolePlayer did.

Jedi_Learner said:
and I'm sure I've figured out who the main villain is. Still, it isn't as obvious as the ones in KOTOR II or Throne of Bhaal. They were practically sign posted, or was it suppose to be like that?

I agree on KOTOR II, but you suspected from the beggining of Throne of Bhaal who will be main villain? Because if so then congratulations, it took me more time.
 

Texas Red

Whiner
Joined
Sep 9, 2006
Messages
7,044
This is already the 3rd game by Bioware that begins in some sort of an academy where you are the best pupil. There can be many other variations if you just use the thing in your head. You can come up with a number of different scenarions even if it is set place in the tired academy.
 
Joined
Apr 4, 2007
Messages
3,585
Location
Motherfuckerville
The Walkin' Dude said:
This is already the 3rd game by Bioware that begins in some sort of an academy where you are the best pupil.

Ok...we've got Jade Empire and we've got Neverwinter Nights. I'm missing the third one that fits that description.

I don't think it can be Baldur's Gate, because it wasn't an academy, and it you were most definitely not the star student.

I doubt it's KOTOR, because you started on a ship.

It might be the first expansion pack for Neverwinter Nights, because you were living with some old man to learn stuff. He just probably wanted ass sex though.

I think it reallly might be Shadows of Amn though. You start off in an academy of carnal sciences and Irenicus is your teacher. And obviously you are the best student because he pays more attention to you than Imoen and "experiments" more with you. Sounds right. EDIT: They did "strip him of his elvenhood" too. Might explain things....
 

dragonfk

Erudite
Joined
Jun 19, 2007
Messages
2,487
Nevertheless is there really so few possibilities in life to use Academy background twice? Note that in KOTOR there was an academy, a little further in the plot, but still. So whats with the Bioware and Academy stuff, maybe they have some complex about it? Or rather lack of creativity.

It would be funny if some Dragon Age developer form Bioware read this posts and thought: "Fuck! I have to delete Academy thing from DA. Fuck,fuck, FUCK. I have to rewrite all of the script! FUCK you CODEX!" ;)
 

Fez

Erudite
Joined
May 18, 2004
Messages
7,954
He's as likely to say "Wow! Great idea!" and write it in.
 

Leo Valesko

Novice
Joined
Sep 15, 2006
Messages
31
Location
Ukraine
I disagree with some parts of this review. I didn’t like the game. It was marked as one of the greatest x-box titles and I was very exited when it was released on PC.

But after playing few hours…

The worst part of the game is setting. It is pretending to be “fantasy China” but has nothing in common both with historical and mythological China. Actually all of the game environments look like a still from a “B” Kung-fu movie. And –the most disappointing part- all of the characters are behaving themselves like Europeans wearing cheap china-style garbs. Or, which is more accurate, like a bunch of Jedi wearing china-style garb.

All of the dialogues are the same “feel the force” and “Come To The Dark Side” crap. Dawn Star looks like a Bastilla clone.

Combat was focused on kung-fu instead of the cold steel (and it’s a damn shame because China has a lot of crude and strange weaponry!) and all of the fighting was extremely boring after 3 or 4 hours of game.

Cut-scenes and visuals are probably two of the worst parts of the game. Cut-scenes like “Master Lee sinking a pirate ship” or “he pretends to do some Kung-fu stuff” are horrible. Poor animation, low-quality models, lame textures and low resolution. Comparing to the cut-scenes from any JRPG it looks like a bad joke. Ingame graphics share same problems. X-box is more powerful console than PS2, but you can’t agree with this comparing Jade Empire and FF12 (or even FFX). JE might have more polygons on each model but lame design, bad textures, backgrounds and mapping spoils it all.

Well, summary JE is looking like a mix of JRPG and CRPG elements. Totally insipid to my taste. The only interesting feature was romances. So if you a sick person and want to have a lesbian or homo in your party – buy yourself a Jade Empire!

Anyway, “Jade Empire” is going to win the title “the biggest disappointment 2007” in my personal rating.
 

Jedi_Learner

Liturgist
Joined
Jun 11, 2007
Messages
894
From the PC Manual of Jade Empire: said:
Others will be drawn to you and your search. So it is with a great cause such as yours. Even those with little talent for magic instinctively feel compelled by the nature of your task and long to take part. Be cautious when choosing whom to accept into your circle. (Page 22)

Apart from one character right at the end of the game, you don't have a choice in whom you accept into your circle. You can't get rid of Dawn Star, The Black Whirlwind or that spoilt princess bitch. There's no mention of this mistake in the Manual Errata in the readme text, so can I assume that this is bullshit from Bioware?
 

Ty

Novice
Joined
Mar 7, 2009
Messages
14
Some critical comments in this review seemed to me contrived:

At one point the main character will be attacked by a spirit and turned to stone, gloriously recovering from this affliction thanks to some deus ex machina. Strangely, any party member currently with you will not only be absent from the cutscene, they also won't even acknowledge what just happened - not even through dialogue.

Did the reviewer go away from the game when this happened and someone else played a few minutes in his stead? Because it's not an unexplained deus ex machina and every single party is giving a comment. When the main character has turned to stone, he/she has to face an entity in his mind and is helped out by the spirits of his party members, most notably Zu.
This is exactly the type of thing that could happen in the dreams or otherworldly planes in Baldur's Gate 2.

Adding insult to injury, party members still suffer from the same shallow behavior as always. They still stand around a ‘camp’ area doing nothing, which is quite puzzling considering that the Emperor has sicked the Lotus Assassins on their trails. A group of eight would-be criminals near a flyer with an uncommon design doesn’t draw any attention, I guess. Instead of being able to issue orders and tell them to do something useful such as finding about local rumors, possible local quests that could further their past or make use of individual skills, or investigate potential lines of work or clues about what to do, they do absolutely *nothing*. One character in particular has ties to the Emperor but will be outside of the palace for an extended time which doesn’t seem to be suspicious to anyone in the Royal family.

As indicated in the game, the Lotus Assassins don't know how exactly the protagonist looks, so of course they know even less how many companions he/she might have and what type they are.
The princess herself gives an explanation why she is not suspected of anything: she got raised by servants and they are too afraid for themselves to tell her father of having trouble with her. Everyone is used to her absences and stubborness. And obviously she and her father don't know each other very well (e.g. he is evil?!).

With few exceptions there was also never such thing as party members carrying out orders and investigations on their own for the PC in any RPG. And two of these exceptions are featured in the criticised game itself, namely by Zu and the „charismatic thief-character“ whose name I forgot. Both disappear for a while in the course of the game. Not to forget the Black Whirlwind who had his personal quest in the arena.

In the whole, the only major drawbacks compared to the classic games are the tactical challenge and the length. The quests and storytelling are either alternately as good or mediocre as in the old games.
I liked the atmosphere of the special setting well enough, although it can be seen as over the top at times and the engine is just too bad for cinvincing visuals.
 

Xor

Arcane
Joined
Jan 21, 2008
Messages
9,345
Codex 2014 PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Divinity: Original Sin Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Divinity: Original Sin 2
Jade Empire was a shallow, uninspired game with terrible combat.
 

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