Jagged Alliance 3: Cautious Good News?

Jed · Jan 8, 2003

Check out the brief story at:

http://gamespot.com/gamespot/stories/news/0,10870,2908242,00.html

I, for one, wouldn't mind a well-done successor to JA2.

J

Greenskin13 · Jan 8, 2003

*orgasm*

Yes! JA3! I've been playing the Deidrana Lives mod on my JA2 for the past year waiting for JA3. Hope they don't screw up and make it RT combat.

Jed · Jan 9, 2003

Greenskin13 said:
Hope they don't screw up and make it RT combat.

Hence the cautious nature of my announcement. Maybe they'll make it 3D and put some "wicked miniguns" in it while they're at it...

J

Walks with the Snails · Jan 9, 2003

Wow, that's great news. I wondered if it was going to be scrapped for good or not. Hopefully it will stay true to its roots, I've got several games from Strategy First, and they don't really seem to be trend whores like most publishers.

Saint_Proverbius · Jan 9, 2003

The last interview I saw about JA3 mentioned multiplayer and real time, but that was a year or so ago. If they're sticking with that formula, they can rot.

Markman · Jan 9, 2003

Saint_Proverbius said:
The last interview I saw about JA3 mentioned multiplayer and real time, but that was a year or so ago. If they're sticking with that formula, they can rot.

Lee Haneman(ex-Sirtech) responded to your post at RPGDot about all that being just rumors.

Saint_Proverbius · Jan 9, 2003

Cool beans.

Meanwhile, there's this interview with Ian Currie which said:

GDR: Will it be Turn-based or realtime, maybe a combination or both as in XCOM3?

Ian Currie: Well, this is the million dollar question. We have a new model that can't easily be compared to any existing game, and we're not quite ready to let the cat out of the bag yet. Turn based doesn't make for a good multiplayer game in our opinion, so we had to try and find a solution that didn't change the game into a dexterity based click fest, and allowed you to have a high degree of control over your mercs. It would be crazy trying to control multiple mercs in a realtime situation and be trying to decide which ones crouched, who fired an aimed shot, etc, without coming up with a new model that supported this. You'll have to wait and see...

It's actually an easy question to answer. You just say, "It's turn based" if it's turn based.

Markman · Jan 9, 2003

Bah, you know that they wouldn't make it to be real-time.Never.If they had lots of money to throw around, maybe then they could do some spin-offs.
Everybody wants JA3 to be turn-based, its like a well known fact, same goes for Fallout 3.
Didn't Fergie talked about FO3 in realtime?

In meantime I'll lay back and await for:
Silent Storm
Paradise Cracked
Rabid Dogs
All turn-based and coming this year.
Yea, baby!

Crazy Tuvok · Jan 9, 2003

Sweet merciful crap who the hell wants a JA3 in real time?! Won't even be JA if it is anything but straight turn based.
That said the mere suggestion that the series is not dead makes me giddy.
A brief aside: I am really tired of the discussion of rt v tb etc. It seems like every damn time a developer wants to make a tb game either they have to make it sound sexy ("it's turn based but you won't even notice that!"), include some nod to the real time junkies (Runesword 3 or the ruin that is pause-n-play) or change their minds and dump tb altogether.
Off the top of my head I cannot think of a single CRPG, squad tactics or strategy game that I truly love that was real time.
to hell with the marketing dept. - turn based works (better in most cases) and turn based can sell.

SexExitium · Jan 10, 2003

Saint_Proverbius · Jan 11, 2003

I know that Alpha Centauri "deathmatch" was only good in turn based, because simultaneous turn based was so easily exploited.

I played Fallout Tactics MP in turn based, and that wasn't bad with the exception of it being in turn based the whole time, not just when two enemies were in LOS with one another. It was fun when the fighting started, but it sucked having to move around all the time in turn based.

LCJr. · Jan 17, 2003

I don't think JA3 is going to happen anytime soon and that article was pure speculation and rumours.

Some of the ex-SirTech people still post on the Bearpit JA2 forums and what they have to say doesn't sound quite so rosy. Lee Haneman posted this in response to the gamespot article:

"I'm not sure where that Gamespot 'news' story came from, but it's simply not %100 factual.

Obviously everyone will speculate (and rightfully so), but please don't assume anything, until you hear it from a reliable source (ie. a press release or an actual quote from someone within the company).

It has been stated before via a press release (from Strategy First and Sir-Tech), but I feel I should clarify it a little: Strategy First acquired the 'distribution' rights for the JA franchise (and produced JA2 Gold with those rights). It has never been stated (from a reliable source), that Strategy First owns the JA franchise or that they were/are developing JA3. I really don't think it's wise or fair (to SFI, the Ex-SFI/Sir-Tech crew, and most importantly the fans), to create further rumors regarding the topic, because it ultimately results in people talking about untruthful things. While I donâ€™t wish to speak for the others, I can say for a fact that I was not working on JA3 while at Strategy First.

Also regarding the Gamespot storyâ€¦ I wasnâ€™t aware that there were 5 Ottawa members re-locating to Montreal. To my knowledge, there were indeed a couple of individuals, who wanted or needed to relocate to Montreal, but that number was less than 5. Relocating is not a trivial thing. Most of us from the Ottawa team have families, wives, houses, girlfriends or just love the city. Itâ€™s just not that simple to relocate. For most of us it wasnâ€™t an option (though we all appreciated Strategy Firstâ€™s offer).

Anyhow, forgive my intrusion into the conversationâ€¦ Iâ€™ll stop rambling and leave you guys to speculate some more. I just think you shouldnâ€™t believe anything completely, until you hear it from the horseâ€™s mouth. As for myself, I canâ€™t really comment further on the topic."

Here's an interview over at RPG Vault with Linda and Ian Currie you might find interesting.

http://rpgvault.ign.com/articles/382/382291p1.html

Saint_Proverbius · Jan 18, 2003

LCJr. said:
I'm not sure where that Gamespot 'news' story came from, but it's simply not %100 factual.

Obviously everyone will speculate (and rightfully so), but please don't assume anything, until you hear it from a reliable source (ie. a press release or an actual quote from someone within the company).

That wouldn't shock me at all. GameSpot's been going downhill fast lately, and it wouldn't shock me that they would pull a stunt like that just to bring in more "gold members".

Anyhow, forgive my intrusion into the conversation? I?ll stop rambling and leave you guys to speculate some more. I just think you shouldn?t believe anything completely, until you hear it from the horse?s mouth. As for myself, I can?t really comment further on the topic.

Not an intrusion, good information. We like good information.

Spazmo · Jan 18, 2003

GameSpot's been going downhill fast lately...

No kidding. Have a look at their latest poll, posted after the announcement of a D&D PnP game based on Warcraft:

In light of the Dungeons & Dragons Warcraft game, which of these other games would you like to see turned into a pen-and-paper RPG?

MechAssault
Metroid Prime
Grand Theft Auto: Vice City
The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind
Madden NFL 2003

MechAssault was originally MechWarrior which was originally BattleMech, a PnP RPG. And the rest of the choices just depress me.

Constipated Craprunner · Jan 18, 2003

Actually, MP is a good game, but the others (especially MA) depress me.

Saint_Proverbius · Jan 18, 2003

Spazmo said:
MechAssault was originally MechWarrior which was originally BattleMech, a PnP RPG. And the rest of the choices just depress me.

BattleTech was a tactical wargame. MechWarrior was the RPG that allowed you to roleplay your pilot, complete with statistics, skills, etc.

You're right though, those other choices are a bit silly. Isn't the guy in Metroid.. unique? That'd be like having an Indiana Jones RPG, there's only one Indy.

Spazmo · Jan 18, 2003

And besides, who the hell would want to play a Metroid RPG? I mean, that kind of gameplay doesn't translate very well to dice-rolling.

I simply can't comprehend why Madden NFL 2003 is there.

Constipated Craprunner · Jan 18, 2003

I said it was good- I said nothing about it translating well.

Saint_Proverbius · Jan 18, 2003

Spazmo said:
I simply can't comprehend why Madden NFL 2003 is there.

I hope they mean something like a Madden Fantasy Football PnP game. That's the only thing I can think of that wouldn't be totally screwy.

Greenskin13 · Jan 19, 2003

Saint_Proverbius said:
I hope they mean something like a Madden Fantasy Football PnP game. That's the only thing I can think of that wouldn't be totally screwy.

Maybe it will come with one of those magnetic football fields that has those weird figures that dance around in circles.

LCJr. · Jan 20, 2003

Player-OK Mr. Dungeon Master my thief linebacker is going to try and tackle the quarterback and steal his superbowl ring while he's down.

DM-First you'll need to roll your against tackle skill minus his evasion. If you make that you can try your pickpocket skill....

Carioz · Jan 20, 2003

I don't want to sound too much an idiot here, but all the games would make good pnp-rpgs. Well maybe not good dnd 3ed rpgs but...

1) Mech Assault: already covered by Heavy Gear and a gajillion other games
2) Metroid Prime: Super spies/ SpecOps in space: it sounds regular, maybe a little bit vanilla to me (not to mention it would play well under d20 modern with some tweaks)
3)GTA:VC: Awesome I wanted to try this setting with Feng Shui, but still need to find some other players
4)Morrowind: just another (boring) fantasy setting.
5)Madden: hey, don't laugh, think about this: troupe playing, 3-4 chars each player, ranging from assistant coach to young, inexperienced players to waning old stars. Each one politicking (and playing on the field, of course) their way to their goal (assistant coach wants to replace current coach, young, inexperienced player has to try to make a living out of the sport (well, maybe not for the NFL, where wages are quite rich, but it doesn't take a great leap of imagination), hot prospect gotta play to earn big money to sustain his cocaine addiction and so on...), Game Master/ Dungeon Master/ Storyteller/ whatnot playing the money-grubbing franchise owner...
Gotta try this one some day.

Saint_Proverbius · Jan 20, 2003

Carioz said:
I don't want to sound too much an idiot here, but all the games would make good pnp-rpgs. Well maybe not good dnd 3ed rpgs but...

1) Mech Assault: already covered by Heavy Gear and a gajillion other games

Already been done, it's called "MechWarrior", it was an officially released add on to BattleTech and there's three revisions of it's rule system.

Unfortunately, the computer game, "MechWarrior" has nothing to do with it.

2) Metroid Prime: Super spies/ SpecOps in space: it sounds regular, maybe a little bit vanilla to me (not to mention it would play well under d20 modern with some tweaks)

But if it were in the Metroid setting, Metroid is unique.. So, it wouldn't be feasible to play that since you'd have one guy being the super one, and everyone else playing supplimental roles.

3)GTA:VC: Awesome I wanted to try this setting with Feng Shui, but still need to find some other players

That's the problem, other players. GTA is pretty much a game based on a loner that stays alone.

4)Morrowind: just another (boring) fantasy setting.

This is probably the only one that would really work that hasn't already been made, though.

5)Madden: hey, don't laugh, think about this: troupe playing, 3-4 chars each player, ranging from assistant coach to young, inexperienced players to waning old stars. Each one politicking (and playing on the field, of course) their way to their goal (assistant coach wants to replace current coach, young, inexperienced player has to try to make a living out of the sport (well, maybe not for the NFL, where wages are quite rich, but it doesn't take a great leap of imagination), hot prospect gotta play to earn big money to sustain his cocaine addiction and so on...), Game Master/ Dungeon Master/ Storyteller/ whatnot playing the money-grubbing franchise owner...
Gotta try this one some day.

How would you handle the sport aspect of it?

Carioz · Jan 20, 2003

>> Already been done, it's called "MechWarrior", it was an officially released add on to BattleTech and there's three revisions of it's rule system.

Yes, exactly what I said, I used a different pnp rpg as example

>> But if it were in the Metroid setting, Metroid is unique..

Samus is unique in the game, but I think it would not destroy the setting to have four or five similarly armoured, equal firepower gifted character. Or if, by some obscure reason, it is not possible to have in that galaxy more than one bounty hunter, just have the other players use non-combat machine, other skills versed characters.

>> That's the problem, other players. GTA is pretty much a game based on a loner that stays alone.

Are you kidding me? Syndacates need more than just a car-thief: they need armed thugs, con artists, drug dealers, smugglers, lawyers, explosive experts... and I think you could meld two or three such characters storylines pretty well.
By chance, have you ever played Cyberpunk 2020? Keep out technology, increase carjacking and you've got GTAVC.

>> This is probably the only one that would really work that hasn't already been made, though.

Agree, it would be just another zero innovation dnd setting, but I agree

>> How would you handle the sport aspect of it?

Narration and randomization? I am sorry, I am not a pnp rpgs designer, but I'd settle for, well, maybe two or three scenes per character (per game? per week? I am not a big american football expert) who plays on the field (or the bench) where the player can have him make some important decision (screw the rest of the teammates, take an high risk run to go for your extra yards? Avoid on purpose the receiver your character cannot stand? Try to have one of your character competitor's for "player of the year", who maybe plays on the same team injured by missing "accidentally" that last block? you name it...), then randomize the result on some skill (using the d20 example skill+dice>limit) to see how well the action went.
Then, based on how the team pulled it off on those secenes, the gm chooses an arbitrary result. Then comes in the franchise owner...

HanoverF · Jan 20, 2003

Wouldn't Metroid just be Space Hulk? Like Saint said, not everyone could be Samus or whatever the main characters name is, so you end up with a squad of bounty hunters tearing through deserted space stations or planets destroying evil aliens.