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Review Jeff Vogel Reviews Dragon Age II

Risine

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DA2 is flawed in every aspect as a RPG, be it action, exploration, atmosphere, dialogues, graphics, DA, in every aspect.
And the same as an action game.

In fact, suppose it didn't have Dragon Age in the title at all. Suppose it was called, say, "Bioware Presents: A Dude Named Hawke Buys a Big House and Has Wacky Adventures."
If this was the case, I honestly believe the result would be considered a lesser but worthy member of the Bioware canon, something pleasing to pass the time while waiting for Dragon Age II.

If this was the case - but not created by Bioware of course - , this game would have probably the same notation metacritics players gave it, more or less, around 4/10.
 

Fowyr

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Jaesun said:
If they had entered the fray in a less immersion-breaking way (say, running from deeper in the dungeon), it would have worked better. However, this basic idea of how to structure combat shows a lot of potential, and I hope other games explore it. (Which is my way of saying: I really should steal that idea.)
I remember similar thing in the Four Crystals of Trazere. Sometimes reinforcements (i.e. random encounter) arrived right in heart of another battle.
 
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Davaris

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Fowyr said:
I remember similar thing in the Four Crystals of Trazere. Sometimes reinforcements (i.e. random encounter) arrived right in heart of another battle.

Sounds like shifting the goal posts to me.
 

DemonKing

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I didn't think the article was too bad - he basically pointed out that if you viewed DA2 in isolation from the original it wasn't a terrible game (I concur) but that it does not compare favourably to the orignal DA.

The main reason for this, which he also notes, is that the suits at EA have mandated a much quicker turn-around time on product production than when Bio was an independant entity, which will inevitably result in corners being cut/less ambititous game design.

Ultimately I think this is a short-sighted approach (especially looking at the fan scores on metacritic) as the people that loved DA and bought DA2 on the expectation that it would be an improved version of the original may not now go on to purchase any subsequent installaments.

As I said, I don't think DA2 is a terrible game (ok the reinforcements spawning into battle idea is genuinely terrible) but if you hold it up next to DA:O then it is certainly lacking, and even more so if you compare it to the BG series.
 

Coyote

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The GameCritics article Stalin linked said:
HIGH A brief (and fictitious) mid-game scene description from Varric.

LOW Everything else.

:)

Some of his criticisms miss the mark for me, though. For example, he attacks the story for being smaller in scope that DAO's and for taking place in a single city - not just the implementation of these ideas (though he criticizes that as well), but the ideas themselves. They aren't inherently bad; indeed, they could make for a refreshing change from the typical save-the-world epic story in the hands of the right developer. They just seem to be poorly executed within the actual game.
 

Volourn

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Anyone who thinks the DA2 characters are shallow in comparison to DA1 characters cannot be taken seriously.

Varric vs Oghren.

CASE CLOSED. CASE FUCKIN' CLOSED.
 

Fowyr

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Davaris said:
Fowyr said:
I remember similar thing in the Four Crystals of Trazere. Sometimes reinforcements (i.e. random encounter) arrived right in heart of another battle.

Sounds like shifting the goal posts to me.
I wrote "similar thing", not "same thing" :smug:
 

Achilles

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DemonKing said:
I didn't think the article was too bad - he basically pointed out that if you viewed DA2 in isolation from the original it wasn't a terrible game (I concur) but that it does not compare favourably to the orignal DA.

That's exactly what I've been saying all along. The change of style was obvious from the first video Bioware released, the story details made it perfectly clear that this game would not be about the player saving the world from an ancient evil and sightseeing across a huge gameworld. Pretty much everyone has acknowledged that DA2 is a lesser game than DAO, but it isn't the hideous monster some people seem to think it is. If you give it a fair chance, it's a pretty fun game and, in some areas, an improvement over DAO.

In my opinion, many people had such a negative reaction towards DA2 because of the following two reasons:

1) They expected Dragon Age Origins 2. That is a fair complaint, but (whether we like it or not) it was never going to be the case. DAO was a throwback to a different (better) era in gaming because of it's prolonged development, just as Duke Nukem Forever is going to be. There was no chance at all of DA2 (or Duke Nukem Forever 2 for that matter) following the same pattern. It's fucking sad, but it's also fact. Expecting old-school games from big companies is a fool's hope.

2) DA2 was worse in production values than people have come to expect from Bioware.
 
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Alexandros said:
In my opinion, many people had such a negative reaction towards DA2 because of the following two reasons:

1) They expected Dragon Age Origins 2. That is a fair complaint, but (whether we like it or not) it was never going to be the case. DAO was a throwback to a different (better) era in gaming because of it's prolonged development, just as Duke Nukem Forever is going to be. There was no chance at all of DA2 (or Duke Nukem Forever 2 for that matter) following the same pattern. It's fucking sad, but it's also fact. Expecting old-school games from big companies is a fool's hope.

2) DA2 was worse in production values than people have come to expect from Bioware.

Hmmm, only partly. I would suggest the hate was mostly due to 1), whereas a whole load of serious issues with the game (including your point 2) ) contributed to an overall 'meh' reaction, with a comparatively small number saying it did not feel any negative reaction at all (/liked). If I look at DA2, and try to assess it as say, a Blizzard game, without even the words "Dragon" or "Age" in the title (let alone II), or without reference to any RPG giants of yore, what do I see...

Well, without expectations, I find a combat system that is neither Diablo 2 -addictive clicky action, nor Heroes of M&M take-your time-and-strategize. Waves of enemies immersion-breakingly spawning in thin air, and whose build and positioning offer few unique challenges from the fight before. A story that takes place in one setting, and that one setting is rather bland/repetitive in art and lifeless in NPC activity. A story that had a good concept, yet failed to deliver. Not compelling enough to keep me focused, not told well enough for a sense of immersion, and lacking the depth of detail to get anyone really to care. Gaping plot holes, and ends on a 'cliffhanger'. Companions that were in the wrong emotional age range for most players over 25. Art that was too itchy & scratchy / anime. A tone that was a little too cheap and juvenile for most people over 25 (exploding Chantries and Zombie Mothers?). Far too many quests that were basically empty, generic fed-ex, in recycled areas. Sometimes I'd walk up to an NPC to be thanked for finding an item he never knew was missing, and I never knew I'd found. Almost zero diverging story arcs, 99% of all playthroughs will differ only in the tone of your Hawke's response. Boss battles that had some good ideas, but at 30 mins with pauses, 2 hours with reloads, were just a chore.

So without any 'Origins 2' expectations, I have little in this game to like. It had no charm, no unique endearing features, no soul. But not much to hate either and it certainly wasn't broken or unplayable.
 

Volourn

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O RLY?

P.S. Anyone who thinks DA1 is a better game than DA2 are retarted.
 

Crispy

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Volly, the next time you want to call someone retarded, try not to do so in a sentence that contains one bad grammatical error and one slightly humorous typo.

Just sayin'.
 

Volourn

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Wasn't a typo. I can honestly say ti was done on purpose. It's ana ctual word.

As for grammatical 'error'.. FFS, stop cryin' about it. It's just make me want to do more grammatical 'error'.
 

Stalin

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volorn teh bioware white knight
M-400_Halloween_Knight_FairyTales_White_Knight.jpg
 
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Volourn said:
Wasn't a typo. I can honestly say ti was done on purpose. It's ana ctual word.

As for grammatical 'error'.. FFS, stop cryin' about it. It's just make me want to do more grammatical 'error'.

WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOUR KEYBOARD!!!!!

Seriously, do you want me to buy one for you on ebay and send it over? If I do, will you promise to start typing sensibly?
 

janjetina

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It's All quiet on the Western front of Vogel's taste in games. He has always been kind of a coprophiliac when it comes to computer games, so I would be surprised if he didn't like Dragon Age 2.

The only appropriate response to this article is ''actions speak louder than words''. Vogel may not talk the talk, but he walks the walk. His admiration for bad games is irrelevant, as long as he makes good or at least playable games.
 

Coyote

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Azrael the cat said:
Volourn said:
Wasn't a typo. I can honestly say ti was done on purpose. It's ana ctual word.

As for grammatical 'error'.. FFS, stop cryin' about it. It's just make me want to do more grammatical 'error'.

WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOUR KEYBOARD!!!!!

Seriously, do you want me to buy one for you on ebay and send it over? If I do, will you promise to start typing sensibly?

FFS, stop cryin' about it. It's just make me want to do more grammatical 'error'.

If this was his response the first time... Dear God, Azrael, what have you unleashed upon us?
 

catfood

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Azrael the cat said:
Volourn said:
Wasn't a typo. I can honestly say ti was done on purpose. It's ana ctual word.

As for grammatical 'error'.. FFS, stop cryin' about it. It's just make me want to do more grammatical 'error'.

WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOUR KEYBOARD!!!!!

Seriously, do you want me to buy one for you on ebay and send it over? If I do, will you promise to start typing sensibly?

There's nothing wrong with his keyboard. He just shakes violently and uncontrollably whenever someone picks on his beloved Bio.
 

hoverdog

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we were proven wrong.

please stop making fun of us, how could anyone know that the decline has come to indie rpgs as well?


The only appropriate response to this article is ''actions speak louder than words''. Vogel may not talk the talk, but he walks the walk. His admiration for bad games is irrelevant, as long as he makes good or at least playable games.
not anymore.
 
In My Safe Space
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hoverdog said:
we were proven wrong.

please stop making fun of us, how could anyone know that the decline has come to indie rpgs as well?
Actually, it was known since the beginning of the March that Avadon is a sharp :decline: . These posts were made over a month after we knew that this period is over :D .

And decline and indie cRPGs was practically synonymous - Vogel was one of the few exceptions.
 

waywardOne

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what kind of loser can be both poor and a sellout?
 

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