Josh Sawyer Q&A Thread

[<3sRichardSimmons]

I think the systems and overall gameplay of PoE are fine. People bounced off the writing that was trying to be too sophisticated for its genre.

That was certainly a problem as well, but I'm not sure it was the dominant one; I think the story in Act 1 is totally fine (shitty intro aside) and it's only once you get to Defiance Bay that it starts to nosedive, but Steam cheevos show that a large group of players never even reached Maerwald.

 

[Tigranes]

I think the systems and overall gameplay of PoE are fine. People bounced off the writing that was trying to be too sophisticated for its genre.

That was certainly a problem as well, but I'm not sure it was the dominant one; I think the story in Act 1 is totally fine (shitty intro aside) and it's only once you get to Defiance Bay that it starts to nosedive, but Steam cheevos show that a large group of players never even reached Maerwald.

What's the %? Because if it's something like 50%, that's totally par for the course. Most Steam buyers don't finish the games they buy. Many of them don't even get past the first act. Some of them don't even start. We have to compare any dropoff figures to the genre/industry norm before saying what it means. Somebody was saying how Larian games weren't being finished, I seem to remember, and again it was just that 15% completion rate or whatever it is is actually pretty normal.

 

[Butter]

I think the systems and overall gameplay of PoE are fine. People bounced off the writing that was trying to be too sophisticated for its genre.

That was certainly a problem as well, but I'm not sure it was the dominant one; I think the story in Act 1 is totally fine (shitty intro aside) and it's only once you get to Defiance Bay that it starts to nosedive, but Steam cheevos show that a large group of players never even reached Maerwald.

It wouldn't surprise me if 1/3 gave up before Gilded Vale. It really is the worst intro of any CRPG since at least FO2.

What's the %? Because if it's something like 50%, that's totally par for the course. Most Steam buyers don't finish the games they buy. Many of them don't even get past the first act. Some of them don't even start. We have to compare any dropoff figures to the genre/industry norm before saying what it means. Somebody was saying how Larian games weren't being finished, I seem to remember, and again it was just that 15% completion rate or whatever it is is actually pretty normal.

46.8% finished Act 1 (reaching Defiance Bay).
25.8% finished Act 2 (reaching Twin Elms).
15.6% finished Act 3 (reaching Sun in Shadow).
13.4% finished the game.

That looks like normal dropoff.

 

[santino27]

That part where he talks about PoE & DivOS shows that he's still completely delusional and does not understand why PoE2 was such a flop. He actually thinks he was pandering to the IE purists.

In his blunt sales breakdown he made it pretty clear that they lost the more casual audience Divinity OS hoovered up, not the "hardcore" audience. So... he's not wrong, according to their sales data anyway. The idea of Codex types buying it and playing it 100 hours before bitching about it is not surprising. The idea of casuals finding the first one boring, generic or disliking RtwP is not surprising either. Divinity OS is built for broader appeal.

he lost everyone when he decided to make up his own game system. If he had used D20 system he would be working on pillars 3 or 4 right now, that is all there is to it. Too much is made of all the rest.

d20 would have been better, yes, if only because it might have allowed them to focus more on other systems/mechanics in the game. The game narrative would still have sucked though.

 

[<3sRichardSimmons]

That part where he talks about PoE & DivOS shows that he's still completely delusional and does not understand why PoE2 was such a flop. He actually thinks he was pandering to the IE purists.

In his blunt sales breakdown he made it pretty clear that they lost the more casual audience Divinity OS hoovered up, not the "hardcore" audience. So... he's not wrong, according to their sales data anyway. The idea of Codex types buying it and playing it 100 hours before bitching about it is not surprising. The idea of casuals finding the first one boring, generic or disliking RtwP is not surprising either. Divinity OS is built for broader appeal.

he lost everyone when he decided to make up his own game system. If he had used D20 system he would be working on pillars 3 or 4 right now, that is all there is to it. Too much is made of all the rest.

d20 would have been better, yes, if only because it might have allowed them to focus more on other systems/mechanics in the game. The game narrative would still have sucked though.

At least it would have meant that they had time enough to do a proper revision of all in-game text. The fact that they basically published their first-draft certainly can't have helped the narrative.

 

[Roguey]

I would absolutely love to be a fly on the wall of his apartment when he gets knee-deep into his historically accurate RPG and realizes there is no way he can actually make that game. Either he makes it accurate and women are physically inferior and largely removed from positions of power, and racism is an inherent part of social interaction, or he removes historical accuracy.

I do not believe such things matter in Darklands.

 

[vortex]

I'd like Obsidan makes Darklands with beautiful graphics as in Icewind dale and RTWP. Kinda hoping this is Sawyer's Elysium.

 

[santino27]

That part where he talks about PoE & DivOS shows that he's still completely delusional and does not understand why PoE2 was such a flop. He actually thinks he was pandering to the IE purists.

In his blunt sales breakdown he made it pretty clear that they lost the more casual audience Divinity OS hoovered up, not the "hardcore" audience. So... he's not wrong, according to their sales data anyway. The idea of Codex types buying it and playing it 100 hours before bitching about it is not surprising. The idea of casuals finding the first one boring, generic or disliking RtwP is not surprising either. Divinity OS is built for broader appeal.

he lost everyone when he decided to make up his own game system. If he had used D20 system he would be working on pillars 3 or 4 right now, that is all there is to it. Too much is made of all the rest.

d20 would have been better, yes, if only because it might have allowed them to focus more on other systems/mechanics in the game. The game narrative would still have sucked though.

At least it would have meant that they had time enough to do a proper revision of all in-game text. The fact that they basically published their first-draft certainly can't have helped the narrative.

Fair point, but something something lipstick on a pig. (Honestly, since different people are tasked with mechanics vs. writing, I wouldn't have expected a huge improvement on the writing front... but I could be wrong.)

Still, I imagine if they'd used d20 to start wtih, they'd have had more time to iterate on systems like the stronghold and factions and what-not, and we'd have ended up with something closer to the 1.3 version of POE right out of the gate, with maybe some mild improvements to the text. I think POE was a lot better at 1.3 than it was at launch (narrative notwithstanding), so while it would have maybe sold the same (since it did really well, from a sales perspective), it might have also left a better impression on the people who bought it.

 

[holla_cabezas_de_mierda]

That part where he talks about PoE & DivOS shows that he's still completely delusional and does not understand why PoE2 was such a flop. He actually thinks he was pandering to the IE purists.

In his blunt sales breakdown he made it pretty clear that they lost the more casual audience Divinity OS hoovered up, not the "hardcore" audience. So... he's not wrong, according to their sales data anyway. The idea of Codex types buying it and playing it 100 hours before bitching about it is not surprising. The idea of casuals finding the first one boring, generic or disliking RtwP is not surprising either. Divinity OS is built for broader appeal.

he lost everyone when he decided to make up his own game system. If he had used D20 system he would be working on pillars 3 or 4 right now, that is all there is to it. Too much is made of all the rest.

d20 would have been better, yes, if only because it might have allowed them to focus more on other systems/mechanics in the game. The game narrative would still have sucked though.

look at every game josh developed where he was constrained by a rules system, they are all good. He says he does not like D&D, and that may or may not be true, but he made good D&D games because D&D rules and lore and especially magic items make for good and interesting computer games. The worlds were well fleshed out, the items were interesting, and the mechanics were what they were.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

That part where he talks about PoE & DivOS shows that he's still completely delusional and does not understand why PoE2 was such a flop. He actually thinks he was pandering to the IE purists.

In his blunt sales breakdown he made it pretty clear that they lost the more casual audience Divinity OS hoovered up, not the "hardcore" audience. So... he's not wrong, according to their sales data anyway. The idea of Codex types buying it and playing it 100 hours before bitching about it is not surprising. The idea of casuals finding the first one boring, generic or disliking RtwP is not surprising either. Divinity OS is built for broader appeal.

he lost everyone when he decided to make up his own game system. If he had used D20 system he would be working on pillars 3 or 4 right now, that is all there is to it. Too much is made of all the rest.

d20 would have been better, yes, if only because it might have allowed them to focus more on other systems/mechanics in the game. The game narrative would still have sucked though.

look at every game josh developed where he was constrained by a rules system, they are all good. He says he does not like D&D, and that may or may not be true, but he made good D&D games because D&D rules and lore and especially magic items make for good and interesting computer games. The worlds were well fleshed out, the items were interesting, and the mechanics were what they were.

deadfire has some of the best itemization(read: interesting items) of any game I've played though

 

[holla_cabezas_de_mierda]

That part where he talks about PoE & DivOS shows that he's still completely delusional and does not understand why PoE2 was such a flop. He actually thinks he was pandering to the IE purists.

In his blunt sales breakdown he made it pretty clear that they lost the more casual audience Divinity OS hoovered up, not the "hardcore" audience. So... he's not wrong, according to their sales data anyway. The idea of Codex types buying it and playing it 100 hours before bitching about it is not surprising. The idea of casuals finding the first one boring, generic or disliking RtwP is not surprising either. Divinity OS is built for broader appeal.

he lost everyone when he decided to make up his own game system. If he had used D20 system he would be working on pillars 3 or 4 right now, that is all there is to it. Too much is made of all the rest.

d20 would have been better, yes, if only because it might have allowed them to focus more on other systems/mechanics in the game. The game narrative would still have sucked though.

look at every game josh developed where he was constrained by a rules system, they are all good. He says he does not like D&D, and that may or may not be true, but he made good D&D games because D&D rules and lore and especially magic items make for good and interesting computer games. The worlds were well fleshed out, the items were interesting, and the mechanics were what they were.

deadfire has some of the best itemization(read: interesting items) of any game I've played though

I have heard that, but sorry, I gave up on the system before that. The muscle wizards.....its too convoluted. I just don't like it, its not fun to me. I don't like magic system, don't like the classes or races, don't like how the stats work or interact, don't like that its largely percentile based. Its probably not fair and perhaps I gave up on the whole thing too early, but I did. I was actually super excited when it first came out and even when I first played it for a like 4 or 5 hours but then realized I did not like the system at all.

edit:

PoE II looks absolutely beautiful from an aesthetic standpoint and I have almost bought the game a couple of times just on the point alone. Josh makes really nice looking games.

 

[purupuru]

That part where he talks about PoE & DivOS shows that he's still completely delusional and does not understand why PoE2 was such a flop. He actually thinks he was pandering to the IE purists.

In his blunt sales breakdown he made it pretty clear that they lost the more casual audience Divinity OS hoovered up, not the "hardcore" audience. So... he's not wrong, according to their sales data anyway. The idea of Codex types buying it and playing it 100 hours before bitching about it is not surprising. The idea of casuals finding the first one boring, generic or disliking RtwP is not surprising either. Divinity OS is built for broader appeal.

he lost everyone when he decided to make up his own game system. If he had used D20 system he would be working on pillars 3 or 4 right now, that is all there is to it. Too much is made of all the rest.

Normies don't care what system a game uses.

They may not understand a game's system but they sure like to pretend they do, and they enjoy making decisions based on their limited/flawed/completely wrong understanding of the system. And sometimes they do the right thing for the wrong reason and get rewarded, and it's actually good fun for them. The problem with pillars is that all those percentile calculations make it painfully obvious to a normie that he does not understand the system at all, and it is hard to construct a simplified (brute-force) interpretation to feign understanding, partly because the game is rather balanced and there is often no obvious dump stat. At the end of the day the game is not that difficult and min-maxing is not that rewarding, but a normie would still feel like an idiot despite winning the fights.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Codex user:

They may not understand a game's system but they sure like to pretend they do, and they enjoy making decisions based on their limited/flawed/completely wrong understanding of the system. And sometimes they do the right thing for the wrong reason and get rewarded, and it's actually good fun for them. The problem with pillars is that all those percentile calculations make it painfully obvious to a normie that he does not understand the system at all, and it is hard to construct a simplified (brute-force) interpretation to feign understanding, partly because the game is rather balanced and there is often no obvious dump stat. At the end of the day the game is not that difficult and min-maxing is not that rewarding, but a normie would still feel like an idiot despite winning the fights.

Normie:

haha go for the eyes boo!

 

[Sweeper]

because the game is rather balanced

It's balanced to the point of blandness, which is fitting I suppose cause everything else in PoE is.

At the end of the day the game is not that difficult and min-maxing is not that rewarding

But this is what kills PoE. A good RPG needs to have complex systems, ones that once you gain a grasp of them, reward you through your min-maxing by, eventually, allowing you to have a powerful character.
Otherwise how you choose to build your character doesn't really matter. Maybe they won't be optimal, but who gives a shit cause they can't be powerful.
The man has a very autistic understanding of design, and not in a good way.

 

[The Wall]

Sawyer is born bureucrat. Give him task, schedule and pre-set rules to follow and goals to achieve. Everything else would be expecting from hamster to design wheel, when he knows only how to spin it. Instead of revaluing D&D system he should have revalued himself

 

[Infinitron]

 

[Orma]

 

[Orma]

ALSO, LIVE RN

 

[vortex]

Why is he belittling himself about making a game which will enjoy small amount of people? He has to develop this conquistador-mentality to overdeliver game of the decade. This no-chad mentality may be the cause why deadfire failed, underperformed.

 

[Sailor Woedica]

I’m really surprised they don’t make him use mixer but it's so everything that he's streaming on twitch now!

 

[toro]

I’m really surprised they don’t make him use mixer but it's so everything that he's streaming on twitch now!

His streams are so shit they don't want him on mixer.

 

[Beastro]

Sad how he keeps getting this stronger and stronger vibe similar to crazy cat ladies, only without the cats.

 

[Orma]

 

[Orma]

Sad how he keeps getting this stronger and stronger vibe similar to crazy cat ladies, only without the cats.

Uh, think again

 

[Roguey]

New Vegas was the peak of his career in terms of everything. Nothing but down from there.