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KickStarter Kingdom Come: Deliverance - Dan Vavra's medieval chad simulator

a cut of domestic sheep prime

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https://www.gamespot.com/articles/what-kingdom-come-deliverance-can-teach-bethesdas-/1100-6456983/
What Kingdom Come: Deliverance Can Teach Bethesda's Elder Scrolls Series
There's a moment in Kingdom Come: Deliverance where you break into someone’s house to steal a ring as part of quest for a group of miller’s that, it turns out, are secretly an organization of thieves. We're left thinking, “Wow, this really is a lot like an Elder Scrolls game.” Not in a bad way either. While Bethesda’s series of open world RPGs have been influential, no one’s really tried to straight up make something so close to an Elder Scrolls game. To its credit, for all the parallels in design and visuals, Kingdom Come feels like a vastly different experience from an Elder Scrolls title.

In the video above, GameSpot's own Jean-Luc Seipke talks about how these two games can feel so different despite being so similar, and how Bethesda could actually learn a thing or two from Kingdom Come. While multiple Elder Scrolls games are referenced, The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivionis primarily used due to the visual similarities and also because it's Jean-Luc's personal favorite.

Being a game built with real world history in mind, Kingdom Come: Deliverance is immediately different from the fantasy-based world of Oblivion. Practically everything the game does is meant to simulate and re-imagine medieval Bohemia, which means worrying about things like needing to bathe regularly, managing injuries, and eating food before it spoils.

This makes buying food at a shop or drink at the tavern important because they serve a purpose and are essential for survival. Compare this to Oblivion where food does have small effects but isn't generally really useful on its own, and is better served as ingredients in a potion. You never need to stock up on carrots before making a long trek to the next town, which becomes second nature in Kingdom Come. In fact a lot of objects in Oblivion don’t really have much of a gameplay benefit. As a result, taverns and markets end up being window dressing to flesh out the world. Meanwhile every shop in Kingdom Come feels important because they serve as a marketplace for the stuff you need to survive an average day, let alone an action-packed one. The same goes for sleeping; in Oblivion you only need to sleep in order to level up and any bed will do. You’ll also recover all your health but the same thing can be accomplished by simply waiting an hour. The only way to regain health in Kingdom Come is to sleep it off or use consumable items.

Beds also are arguably Kingdom Come's most contentious feature, as they also function as the save system. There are no autosaves outside of certain quest moments, and you can only manually save by sleeping in a bed you own or by purchasing expensive bottles of Savior Schnapps. It's a radically different approach to Oblivion’s save-anywhere-anytime system, and results in two different experiences. In Kingdom Come, saving some poor villager being accosted on the road might not be worth the risk if you die and lose an hour of progress. You’re forced to think about every choice you make and what you end up choosing feels more important because of this. This is rarely the case in Oblivion where you can quickly save and load at any time to retry unlocking a door as many times as you want. Don’t take this as me saying that being able to save at anytime is bad or anything; after all Oblivion doesn’t want you to get stuck or lose hours or progress, it wants you to go on an adventure. Right from the beginning of the game you're able to go wherever you want and find a fun quest to engage in with no worries about save limitations or not having enough food. Kingdom Come simply prefers a more rigorous approach.

And the advantage of Kingdom Come is that it forces you to live in its world and roleplay. When you’re making a long trek you need to make sure you've packed enough food and are well rested. And when it's starting to get dark and you're low on energy, there is a sense of relief when you see that inn on the side of the road. In Oblivion, you'd stop at an Inn to fulfill the desire to roleplay or because there's probably a cool quest to get.

Neither approach is inherently right or wrong, but Kingdom Come is aiming to take familiar scenarios and make them more impactful. Take, for example, the Thieves Guild in Oblivion and Kingdom Come’s equivalent. In Oblivion, you join the Thieves Guild not out of any real desire for money or financial reasons; you don’t really need it. You join because it's a fun quest narrative where you go around stealing a bunch of stuff. The opening hours of Kingdom Come however leave you with little beyond the clothes on your back. Money is necessary to access food and other important items needed to stay alive, so when presented with the faster but more dangerous option of becoming a thief, you take it. The game's systems make a life of crime an appealing means of survival.

That isn’t to say Kingdom Come is perfect. Its save system, most notably, can be really frustrating when things go bad. Developer Warhorse Studios seem to be backpedaling on it a bit in an upcoming patch by letting you save when you quit, which is a decent compromise. There's also the lockpicking and pickpocketing minigames that just don’t seem to work consistently, which is also frustrating and exacerbated by the save system. But again, Warhorse said it'll address this.

And there are things that Oblivion does much better, such as the playable character. Your character is given the bare bones setup of being in jail but afterward, you're free to come up with the backstory and personality you desire. This works well since there aren't any voiced lines and the dialogue options are minimal, with very little personality, the idea being that you’ll fill in that personality yourself. The ability to create your own person to be the avatar in your roleplay wonderfully meshes with the freedom-based design of Oblivion. Kingdom Come’s approach is closer to The Witcher, with protagonist Henry having a predetermined personality, which ends up clashing with the rest of the game's do-anything style. Henry may talk about how much he respects honor and appalls thievery, but sometimes it's right after instantly killing a random NPC and ransacking their home. There's a constant dissonance between what what Henry says and what you want Henry to do, a problem Bethesda also faced with Fallout 4’s protagonist.

So it's pretty clear that Kingdom Come's more hardcore roleplaying aspects have won me over. However, that's not to say the next Elder Scrolls needs to be a hardcore survival game. Oblivion and Skyrim are lighthearted, and the freedom to approach the world's conflicts and have a good adventure is just what we want sometimes. But with the inevitable (and totally unconfirmed) Elder Scrolls VI, Bethesda should take note on the ways in which Kingdom Come: Deliverance pushes the open-world RPG forward.
 

*-*/\--/\~

Cipher
Joined
Jul 10, 2014
Messages
984
I'm kind of torn on this one. I played the hell out of it the first weekend and enjoyed whatever fresh things it had to offer, but after that, my interest has been declining. This correlated with Henry becoming more and more overpowered and the quests becoming more and more meh. Then they have sent me to the damn monastery yet again and my desire to play dropped to zero Kelvin.

Can't say it's a bad game, but it needs much more polishing, balancing and even content (seriously, I played Mr. Nice Henry who doesn't steal, yet I still ended up with nearly 50 000 coins; either tune that properly or at least let me buy my own castle or something).

Performance wise it was hardly ideal, but not as atrocious as many say. Except the dialogue-loading, that is so fucking ridiculous it managed to dissuade me from talking to people. Crashed once and messed up two quests with bugs. Otherwise, the amount of stupid stuff is not worse than other open world games.

Maybe I'll finish it some day. Or watch a let's play, who knows.
 
Self-Ejected

unfairlight

Self-Ejected
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Aug 20, 2017
Messages
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Just a quick tip for everyone, DO NOT GIVE ANY BANDIT EARS TO CAPTAIN BERNARD IN THE CLEAR THE BANDIT CAMP ACTIVITY. After you cleared all the camps for Bernard, he sends you to do work for Robard to clear Cuman camps but he doesn't pay out for ears at all, once you do all his camps you are sent to Sebastian von Berg in Sasau and if you give him a bandit ear he gives you 625 groschen per ear, I am not making this shit up. One bandit camp has roughly 4 ears on average so you would be missing out on 2400 extra gold per bandit camp if you gave them to Bernard.
 

Sinatar

Arbiter
Joined
Jan 25, 2014
Messages
569
Just a quick tip for everyone, DO NOT GIVE ANY BANDIT EARS TO CAPTAIN BERNARD IN THE CLEAR THE BANDIT CAMP ACTIVITY. After you cleared all the camps for Bernard, he sends you to do work for Robard to clear Cuman camps but he doesn't pay out for ears at all, once you do all his camps you are sent to Sebastian von Berg in Sasau and if you give him a bandit ear he gives you 625 groschen per ear, I am not making this shit up. One bandit camp has roughly 4 ears on average so you would be missing out on 2400 extra gold per bandit camp if you gave them to Bernard.

If you seriously still need money after clearing the first set of camps, let alone the Cumans then I have no idea what the fuck you are doing.
 

fantadomat

Arcane
Edgy Vatnik Wumao
Joined
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Messages
37,607
Location
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Just a quick tip for everyone, DO NOT GIVE ANY BANDIT EARS TO CAPTAIN BERNARD IN THE CLEAR THE BANDIT CAMP ACTIVITY. After you cleared all the camps for Bernard, he sends you to do work for Robard to clear Cuman camps but he doesn't pay out for ears at all, once you do all his camps you are sent to Sebastian von Berg in Sasau and if you give him a bandit ear he gives you 625 groschen per ear, I am not making this shit up. One bandit camp has roughly 4 ears on average so you would be missing out on 2400 extra gold per bandit camp if you gave them to Bernard.
Hahahahahaha that is some trolling :) . Also my Robard does pay for Cuman ears,25 from what i remember.
 
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unfairlight

Self-Ejected
Joined
Aug 20, 2017
Messages
4,092
If you seriously still need money after clearing the first set of camps, let alone the Cumans then I have no idea what the fuck you are doing.
Not including loot, this is a difference between around 600 gold for just Bernard compared to 15,000 gold.
And yeah I do need more money. Once my armor goes below health where I can repair it or I get in a fight with over 3 enemies and take too much damage repairs don't come in cheap, around 1000 gold per repair for my armor and expensive clothing.

Just a quick tip for everyone, DO NOT GIVE ANY BANDIT EARS TO CAPTAIN BERNARD IN THE CLEAR THE BANDIT CAMP ACTIVITY. After you cleared all the camps for Bernard, he sends you to do work for Robard to clear Cuman camps but he doesn't pay out for ears at all, once you do all his camps you are sent to Sebastian von Berg in Sasau and if you give him a bandit ear he gives you 625 groschen per ear, I am not making this shit up. One bandit camp has roughly 4 ears on average so you would be missing out on 2400 extra gold per bandit camp if you gave them to Bernard.
Hahahahahaha that is some trolling :) . Also my Robard does pay for Cuman ears,25 from what i remember.
Strange, he never did for me in two different playthroughs, he just took my ears and didn't give me a thing.
 
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unfairlight

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Aug 20, 2017
Messages
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Also, Master Ota is the shittiest armorer in the entire game. Can't even repair my armor for Christ's sake.
 

Tigranes

Arcane
Joined
Jan 8, 2009
Messages
10,358
You are never short of money anyway like in most CRPGs, I don't see why I would game the system (however silly it is) to get even more.

I'm curious about different experiences re. repair though. It seems clear that your armour degrades like crazy with hits, but my experience has been that you really don't get into very many fights, so the kind of fights where you're up against a tough enemy and get all your shit damaged is fairly rare? Do people just randomly go out looking for bandits to kill?
 
Unwanted

Black Knight

Unwanted
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Deep in the forest somewhere
Cheers Lads, especially those who remember gaming times as they were in 80's / 90's .

It's great we have large number of disscusion here.
In example of KCD I want to present my useless to anyone but me :) way of enjoying and judging roleplaying games , which may help other, maybe younger fellows [be it peasants or nobles ] to actually enjoy good games without going into details and overmod, over criticize their experience, thus never really finish/ complete/ enjoy a really fun crpg titles as a whole.

You need to understand that crpg games , and even paper systems, be it Warhammer, Vampire the Masquarade, D&D and many others are always created as some kind of presentation of alternate world and their main targets were;
1) TO BE FUN
2) TO TAKE YOU FOR A FEW HOURS INTO OTHER WORLD

Yes that's all.:whiteknight:

Even if you look into most like today's fellas call it "hardcore" rulebooks for most hardcore and large systems , there is always one rule: FUN .

These kind of games, was never created to simulate every detail you may think about but to move you IMAGINATION to the highest levels of immersion and to give you FUN.

And whatever You call given crpg example, hardcore, casual, action rpg, hack n slash, dungeon crawler, space opera, post apo, shooter, japanese , text based, turn based, historical, fictional, sci-fi, medieval, third person, first person, etc. Their outcome should be one, YOU , as the PLAYER, should feel that You are part of the story and the world presented by given game.

Please let me state one thing, THIS IS and ALWAYS WILL be PERSONAL.

Just LET YOURSELF dive into crpg game without thinking about anything else. That is good crpg when you can. OR You are just playing bad crpg , in terms it's not targeted for You [and it's nothing bad] .

It's one huge difference too, most of Bethesda games , [ where many comparison topics between two goes ,and i love Elder Scrolls to be honest too ] are just very mediocre without mods,
and they shine on truly with mods since Oblivion .
As when we talk about VANILLA features, KCD is a way ahead of Bethesda games, becouse i don't need NMM and around 253 active plugins from Nexus to call it good crpg game.

It's very important for me as overworked father of two and near 40's veteran of gaming and crpg's especially. I want to play a GAME not to spend hours on updating mods .
KCD / Witcher 3/ Divinity/ and many other Vanilla rich cRPGs be it action oriented more like ME /DA /WITCHER or more calm like KCD / Divine /Expedition Vikings / Bloodlines / other classics,
doesn't need dozens of mods to be cool experience.

Modding was fun in my college, post college years. Now im hard gamer too, but i pay less and less atention to the mods as i want to recieve rich enough crpg.
Max mods for me to maintain per game is up to 25-50 and that's all. Good example is Skyrim or Skyrim SE . I just focused on mods like Faalskar, Bruma, Undying, and few Arthmoor made [as it's NO GO without them] .
Bethesda titles are great but im much closer to the style KCD presented or other complex games like Witcher series/ME/ The Quest/ Xulima/ Shadowrun / Divine, when i can actually JUST PLAY without taking care of dozens of mods and what is worst keep tracking and updating them. It's not casual, it's mature veteran attitude.
Besides it's great to be actually free from need to "MAKING BETTER" each part of well planed game, and just ENJOY it as it is with small tweaks.

Trust me , it's better to finish an crpg title than start over and over again [like many had in Beth titles] without completing a story, which is always main factor next to mechaincs in ALL RPG's , paper or pc.

Try to look at the game as a WHOLE not for each smallest detail , KCD have already plenty of details and its most detailed crpg ive seen in years, AS A WHOLE. Very good title, and talking about not buying it is just plain stupid.
687474703a2f2f7473686972746f6e6f6d792e636f6d2f77702d636f6e74656e742f75706c6f6164732f426c61636b2d4b6e696768742d4272696467652d53656375726974792d542d53686972742e6a7067
 
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unfairlight

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Messages
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I'm curious about different experiences re. repair though. It seems clear that your armour degrades like crazy with hits, but my experience has been that you really don't get into very many fights, so the kind of fights where you're up against a tough enemy and get all your shit damaged is fairly rare? Do people just randomly go out looking for bandits to kill?
Attacks on the road with fast travel, running into bandit camps randomly, doing quests that involve combat and fighting against more than 3 relatively high level enemies. They're certain to hit you at least once and deal some damage.
Also, I just ran into some bandits on the road. The first one tried to attack me with his fists and he went to his knees and begged for mercy when he got close, the second one got kicked in the nuts and then begged for mercy.
 

warpig

Incel Resistance Leader
Manlet
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Mar 24, 2013
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lmaoing @ your life
The Theressa bitch is the worst,i steal for her the most expensive dresses in the city and she just tells me to come back tomorrow. :argh: Just want to pound her in the flour!
You don't need to give her any dresses, but she is a nice girl and she wont just let you fuck her right away ok. You need to go on three (if i remember right) dates with her to FUG.

t. medieval PUA pro XD

btw too bad Bianka dies at the beginning...she was such a cute girl :/
 

Elex

Arbiter
Joined
Oct 17, 2017
Messages
2,043
well i buy kit and put them on the horse and use them for repair. I need the squire DLC so we can have a slave that repair/clean our stuff while we sleep.

and yes the monastery is the worst part of the game: they have to fix.
You don't need to give her any dresses, but she is a nice girl and she wont just let you fuck her right away ok. You need to go on three (if i remember right) dates with her to FUG.

t. medieval PUA pro XD

"no henry i am a crhistian girl!"
"so we have to marry?"
"umm NOPE 3 dates is fine"
 

fantadomat

Arcane
Edgy Vatnik Wumao
Joined
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Messages
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Location
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Hahahahahaha that is some trolling :) . Also my Robard does pay for Cuman ears,25 from what i remember.
Come to think of it, how does he know it's exactly Cuman, if you know what I mean...
That was thought while living the castle. Why can't i cut of some peasant's ear and call it cuman or banding? Or why i don't get both of their ears and why the hundreds of bandits that i have killed don't have ears. Bohemia must be very earless country,only select few people have one ear and gather in groups of 4-5 in the deep woods. Must say that foreign countries are scary places.


veealune i could be remembering wrong or it could be some bug.
 

Tigranes

Arcane
Joined
Jan 8, 2009
Messages
10,358
I'm curious about different experiences re. repair though. It seems clear that your armour degrades like crazy with hits, but my experience has been that you really don't get into very many fights, so the kind of fights where you're up against a tough enemy and get all your shit damaged is fairly rare? Do people just randomly go out looking for bandits to kill?
Attacks on the road with fast travel, running into bandit camps randomly, doing quests that involve combat and fighting against more than 3 relatively high level enemies. They're certain to hit you at least once and deal some damage.
Also, I just ran into some bandits on the road. The first one tried to attack me with his fists and he went to his knees and begged for mercy when he got close, the second one got kicked in the nuts and then begged for mercy.

Right, I skip every attack on the road, and if I fail, half the time I gallop away anyway. But I guess my experience is that I'm never having to go back to town explicitly to repair armour or anything, it becomes something I do every couple times I visit town, in which case it's not a huge annoyance. So i was wondering whether other people go looking for fights. I also stopped doing the bandit camp quests after the first couple because they are all the same, right?
 
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unfairlight

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Messages
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Right, I skip every attack on the road, and if I fail, half the time I gallop away anyway. But I guess my experience is that I'm never having to go back to town explicitly to repair armour or anything, it becomes something I do every couple times I visit town, in which case it's not a huge annoyance. So i was wondering whether other people go looking for fights. I also stopped doing the bandit camp quests after the first couple because they are all the same, right?
I do the bandit camp quests because they have some relatively hard combat and aren't just fedex.
And no, they aren't all the same. Later camps have night watches too so stealth will be much harder, and combat also progressively gets harder.
 
Unwanted

Black Knight

Unwanted
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Messages
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Deep in the forest somewhere
Roleplaying simple and stupid peasant is just great here, nothing more epic that living as simple dumb villager, fighting with pitchfork and bare hands, wearing hat of peasantry and bare foots, then raping some goats or sheeps and goes to the market square each sunday to watch nice execution, visit a church, spit on some beggars and watch incline of spanish inqusition.
Next time im going to be a priest and bury dead bodies of my enemies [killed with wooden club only while wearing clothes ] , performing mass after some schanppies, each few days to fellow peasants and chasing sheeps in the evening.
687474703a2f2f7473686972746f6e6f6d792e636f6d2f77702d636f6e74656e742f75706c6f6164732f426c61636b2d4b6e696768742d4272696467652d53656375726974792d542d53686972742e6a7067
 
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imweasel

Guest
once you do all his camps you are sent to Sebastian von Berg in Sasau and if you give him a bandit ear he gives you 625 groschen per ear, I am not making this shit up.
That would be a great tip if money wasn't a worthless commodity in KCD, because the game lacks a money sink. Money is pretty much useless after you have bought a nice horse + upgrades early in the game. If you are master thief even more so, because you can rob all of the merchants for every penny they have without any consequences.
 

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