KickStarter Kingdom Come: Deliverance - Dan Vavra's medieval chad simulator

[Jenkem]

Gonna grab the DLC probably in the summer sale on steam and start another playthrough, hopefully a month is enough time for Smejki and co. to squash all the bugs

 

[cvv]

As can be read, the reason is the obvious one. Nevertheless, it was nice to finally get an official statement.

Sounds official enough for me.

What I wonder is whether Sony/Microsoft demand the PC version of a game isn't too pretty compared to the console version. Logically modern games should look way prettier on PC but the difference usually isn't that huge. It's either some sort of contractual, heavily NDAed shenanigans or devs simply never bother to optimize for PC and consoles separately.

 

[Saxon1974]

Well, it definitely shouldn't
So far any reports of broken game after 1.9 we got turned out to be modded games.

Great to hear. Only thing I added was a configuration setting or two. I changed a setting that ups the number of bandits encountered on the roads.

 

[Zer0wing]

or devs simply never bother to optimize for PC and consoles separately.

This. Empirical research gets you one and only one result - lazyness. PC porting job often get outsourced to a different company or in the office full of juniors or just made in a last minute.

 

[Smejki]

What I wonder is whether Sony/Microsoft demand the PC version of a game isn't too pretty compared to the console version.

No. That is... nonsense.

Regarding our vegetation there were 2 major steps:
1) The individual assets were too demanding on their own. Plus some of them had shitty LODs so, in addition, they looked like crap form afar. Our vegetation artist optimized (read re-made) almost all vegetation assets with a focus (a) least possible impairment of the resulting visual quality and (b) visually smoother LODs.
2) Regardless, the asset density was too high to guarantee smooth run when all other systems and content was put into the game. Testing that and finding some balance was one of the core purposes of alphas and betas. By asset density I mean a combination of the amount of textures loaded at a time as well as geometrical complexity of a scene. This lead to several iterations in our automated vegetation area fillers which are used as the initial phase of enviro artistry. Of course this generated result is then pimped up by and actual enviro artist but they have to work within similar limitations nonetheless.

 

[Black Angel]

Smejki are patches for consoles/PS4 comes later than PC? I've been checking on my PS4 for awhile now while my brothers are playing it, but it seems KCD hasn't been updating until now.

The same happened with previous patch, when I first bought the game in February, it seems there's a new patch that's been floating around, the one that first introduces reputation changes showing up on screen, and yet it wasn't there when I first played. Only a few weeks later does the update finally drops and I got to see the new changes.

 

[Smejki]

Yes, the 1.9 patch for consoles is gonna release along with the DLC. That is June 11th if I recall correctly.
We'd prefer simultaneous release of course but the powers that be prepared a different fate for us.

 

[DalekFlay]

Haven't gotten around to this yet so the big final patch sounds even more exciting than the DLC. Will likely get the Royal Edition in the Steam Summer sale, even with just a minor discount.

 

[Country_Gravy]

$19.99

 

[Correct_Carlo]

Just got this and all the DLC. I'm playing on hardcore + all negative perks. Seems idiotic for a first playthrough, but we'll see how long I last.

Awesome stuff:

-Pretty much all skills. Love the way they are implemented. Lock picking and Pickpocketing minigames are just the right amount of gamefication and challenge.
-Perks all make sense relative to the world and don't seem OP.
-Quest design has been great so far.
-Combat is rare (at least thus far).
-There is so much to do that it's mind boggling. I've played 6 hours and don't think I've begun to wrap my brain around the game's systems.
-A million ways to complete any given quest, most of which make sense. I loved that you could complete the prologue quest, for example, by just selling all of the food in your house to buy the charcoal.

Less than awesome stuff:

-The over-reliance on pre-rendered video cut-scenes is probably my single biggest annoyance with the game. It's abysmal because: (1) most of the cut scenes are just characters talking and could have easily been done in-engine, (2) I'm guessing they take up a massive portion of this game's 60gb of HD space, (3) they look worse than the in-game engine, and (4) you cannot speed read subtitles and skip through them like you can with in game dialog (I always turn the subtitles on and speed read when playing RPGs).

-The graphics in this game are odd, in that they are pretty plain overall, so using CryEngine 3 seems like MASSIVE overkill. It's incredibly taxing on your system, but doesn't really look all that good in the end. And it's wonky as hell, in that I will be getting 70fps with everything on ultra, then randomly drop to 30fps for seemingly no reason. The store in the prologue city is a good case in point. 70-90fps everywhere in town, but walk by that one random store and framerate drops to 30fps for no discernible reason. I suspect the engine is doing something weird like rendering the entire inside of the store for no reason even though you can't see it, while it isn't rendering the insides of other houses......but I dunno. It's a really ugly, plain, store with like 2 NPCs inside, so I don't understand why the framerate drop. But framerates seem to dip at weird points in most of the cities for no discernible reason, or, in the least, for very mundane reasons. I get crazy high framerates in forests and other places that you'd expect things to be more taxing, but my FPS die in a mundane, square, building with 2 NPCs in it.

Anyhow, game is rough around the edges, but in a really charming way. Case in point: it takes its sweet fucking time to get from point A to point B, then spends about as much time having your character discuss getting from pont A to point B with random characters after the fact, for seemingly no reason. I'd get pissed, but I'm kind of loving the languorous pace. And hardcore definitely contributes to this, as there are no quest compasses. I spent like 10 minutes looking for a spade to dig a hole.....I might want to blow my brains out after 100 hours of that, but right now I'm digging it.

 

[cvv]

snip

Afaik there are no pre-rendered cutscenes, everything is done in-engine. I think you mean the difference between directed cutscenes vs. algorithm-based dialogues? The movie-like cutscenes are awesome, they give the game so much richness and colour, they're one of the best things about the game.

Ad Cryengine - I think they picked it because 6 years ago it had the best lightning and best forests which they felt was crucial for a game like KCD, even though CE isn't exactly ideal for a simulationist open-world RPG. I can't even imagine how much work it took to modify but in the end the forests and lightning DID blew people's mind so at least there's that. I'm not sure what you mean the graphics are plain? Compared to what, DMC5? It's like the first pro every single review and comment mentions - how beautiful KCD is. You might be the only person in the world saying the game doesn't look that good.

Ad framerates in towns - apparently the biggest problem are hidden interior lights or some such, the latest patch mentions they improved that but I haven't tested yet.

Ad slow pace - that and the realism are by far the strongest point for me.

 

[DalekFlay]

-The over-reliance on pre-rendered video cut-scenes is probably my single biggest annoyance with the game. It's abysmal because: (1) most of the cut scenes are just characters talking and could have easily been done in-engine, (2) I'm guessing they take up a massive portion of this game's 60gb of HD space, (3) they look worse than the in-game engine, and (4) you cannot speed read subtitles and skip through them like you can with in game dialog (I always turn the subtitles on and speed read when playing RPGs).

I've always guessed that video cutscenes were rendered with shitty graphics because they wanted to match the console graphics, but even on the newest systems which run in 1080p with good settings the videos still look like garbage. It's really baffling. I'm suffering through Mass Effect Andromeda right now and it has the same issue, when it uses video (mostly for ship docking and launching) it suddenly looks like a 720p render with no AA or AF and tons of jaggies and ugliness. Like, it's not a port issue, the consoles run it in 1080p with TAA... what the fuck are you doing? Just baffling.

Also shame to hear this game is still unoptimized, but I think that's Cryengine for you right now. I tried-and-refunded Sniper Ghost Warrior 3 to see its rendering of Georgia since I lived in Georgia for a year, and despite looking way worse than Far Cry 3-5 it ran like dogshit compared.

 

[SlamDunk]

A potential slip?

It seems that Theresa will be in KCD2: https://old.reddit.com/r/kingdomcom...with_victoria_hogan_actor_of_theresa/epi053j/

The only time we actually recorded in the booth together was the dance scene from the first KCD.

 

[Infinitron]

A potential slip?

It seems that Theresa will be in KCD2: https://old.reddit.com/r/kingdomcom...with_victoria_hogan_actor_of_theresa/epi053j/

The only time we actually recorded in the booth together was the dance scene from the first KCD.

Or maybe it just means her voice actress will be working on KCD2.

Or maybe it just means her voice actress knows there's a KCD2.

 

[Sentinel]

Or maybe she thinks the DLC is a second game and was referring to the Vanilla game.

 

[Multidirectional]

I am going through Theresa's part of "Woman's Lot" now. Fucking hell are those stealth kills unreliable. So far they have at most 30% chance of actually working. I am saving every damn time before attempting one and even then I manage to get really annoyed by it. My first run was completely stealthless so I didn't know how shit it was. No idea why some of you guys are actually suffering the default idiotic saving system but I know for sure I'll never attempt it myself. Game already takes up loads of time even with unlimited saving.
Also, Henry's doggie - cute but I told him to fuck off back to mill pretty soon. More trouble than it's worth. Feeding and petting him is just more busywork and the little shit has a tendency to get in front of chests, making me unable to open them.

By the way for cleaner visuals I recommend this: https://www.nexusmods.com/kingdomcomedeliverance/mods/78 (Ignore what description says, install it by putting its folder into "Mods" folder, just like other mods.)

 

[SlamDunk]

A potential slip?

It seems that Theresa will be in KCD2: https://old.reddit.com/r/kingdomcom...with_victoria_hogan_actor_of_theresa/epi053j/

The only time we actually recorded in the booth together was the dance scene from the first KCD.

Or maybe it just means her voice actress will be working on KCD2.

Or maybe it just means her voice actress knows there's a KCD2.

Maybe it's Maybelline.

 

[Smejki]

snip

Afaik there are no pre-rendered cutscenes, everything is done in-engine.

Some of the cutscenes, the most demanding ones, are pre-rendered videos albeit done within the engine and with standard assets. For example the whole intro or Henry fleeing from Skalitz/to Talmberg are all videos. The engine could not render them real-time in high enough framerate. One the worst issues we have with them is that they cannot respect Henry's current attire, which real-time cutscenes can and do if not requested otherwise.

 

[SlamDunk]

One the worst issues we have with them is that they cannot respect Henry's current attire, which real-time cutscenes can and do if not requested otherwise.

Yeah, Henry's changing attire kept infuriating me to no end...

and also

- Henry's helmet visor not being up during dialogs
- ambushes being always at the same spot
- wayfairers being always on the same route
- Skalitz burning eternally.

 

[lukaszek]

deterministic system > RNG

 

[SlamDunk]

- Skalitz burning eternally.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centralia_mine_fire

It's the village burning, not the mines.

 

[Correct_Carlo]

Ad Cryengine - I think they picked it because 6 years ago it had the best lightning and best forests which they felt was crucial for a game like KCD, even though CE isn't exactly ideal for a simulationist open-world RPG. I can't even imagine how much work it took to modify but in the end the forests and lightning DID blew people's mind so at least there's that. I'm not sure what you mean the graphics are plain? Compared to what, DMC5? It's like the first pro every single review and comment mentions - how beautiful KCD is. You might be the only person in the world saying the game doesn't look that good.

The countryside is beautiful (like, breathtaking at times), but the characters and most buildings all look like they could have been done in FO4 era Gamebryo without missing much, as they aren't terribly elaborate. And I'm not talking about the realism of the art-design, which is fine. What I mean is that there is nothing graphically about the cities or characters that necessitates CryEngine 3. There are many games on less demanding engines that look significantly better than KCD. Of course, many of those games aren't open world.....but that holds true even if you limit it to open world.

I do acknowledge that CryEngine 3 has tons of bells and whistles that many other engines don't have, but they tend to be the sorts of bells and whistles that cost a huge amount of resources to run, for what is ultimately incredibly subtle pay-off that only people who know a lot about PC graphics bells and whistles will notice. More efficient engines can fake it, run better, and still look better in the end, as ultimately 90% of graphics come down to art design.

All that said, someone needs to make a mod that increases graphics settings when outside of cities, and decreases them when inside. I get 70-80 FPS on ultra in the countryside, and my FPS drops to 40 when in cities, which is annoying as the countryside is gorgeous on ultra, yet the cities really don't need all those bells and whistles as they tend to be fairly barebones and plain (or at least the ones I've seen so far.........do you ever get to go to Prague? That'd be awesome).

snip

Afaik there are no pre-rendered cutscenes, everything is done in-engine.

Some of the cutscenes, the most demanding ones, are pre-rendered videos albeit done within the engine and with standard assets. For example the whole intro or Henry fleeing from Skalitz/to Talmberg are all videos. The engine could not render them real-time in high enough framerate. One the worst issues we have with them is that they cannot respect Henry's current attire, which real-time cutscenes can and do if not requested otherwise.

Yeah, I probably spoke too soon. Most of the videos in the first portions of the prologue seem to be pre-rendered, yet once you get past the prologue, most aren't. You can tell as the in-engine videos are locked at 30fps, while with the prerendered videos your FPS will spike to like 300 (plus Henry's clothes will often change).

 

[cvv]

I do acknowledge that CryEngine 3 has tons of bells and whistles that many other engines don't have, but they tend to be the sorts of bells and whistles that cost a huge amount of resources to run, for what is ultimately incredibly subtle pay-off that only people who know a lot about PC graphics bells and whistles will notice. More efficient engines can fake it, run better, and still look better in the end

I'm p. sure Warhorse themselves must've thought many times if CE isn't more trouble than worth, even Vavra admitted something to that extend. But don't forget they were choosing the engine, what, 6 or 7 years ago. Back then many current engines, perhaps better suited for an open-world RPG, either didn't exist yet or were not available for licence or were still in their ugly duckling stage (UE3) or were simply too expensive for a small indie studio. There are a lot of things that go into a decision like that. At that time they prolly felt CE has the best pros/cons ratio.

 

[Smejki]

Yeah, we said several times that if UE4 were available at the time we would have opted for it. It wasn't out for another year or so. CryEngine won because of unparalleled vegetation handling and dynamic lighting/shadows.

 

[Multidirectional]

All that said, someone needs to make a mod that increases graphics settings when outside of cities, and decreases them when inside. I get 70-80 FPS on ultra in the countryside, and my FPS drops to 40 when in cities

Why do you think it drops in cities? It's NPCs. That mod would have to lower NPC count in cities. Or disable their routines and make them stand in one place.