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Development Info KOTOR 2 mini-game: Count the Sith Lords

Vault Dweller

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Tags: Obsidian Entertainment; Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic 2: The Sith Lords

<b>Akari</b>, one of the <a href=http://www.lucasarts.com/games/swkotor_sithlords>KOTOR 2</a> developers, has answered some questions about the game in another <a href=http://forums.obsidianent.com/index.php?showtopic=20366&hl=>Weekend Programmer</a> thread.
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<blockquote>Total number of Sith Lords? Hm... it changes over the course of the game, what there is at the start isn't how many there will be in total by the end. I'll leave it at that for now.
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The fighting stances? Some are focused around tuning your lightsaber use while others are better for those that rely heavily on the force powers instead of lightsaber combat. So different classes will benefit from different stances.
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I talked to the designer in charge of making decisions like that. He said that if NPCs could be used to pass every skill check, then there would be no point in the player character leveling up their skills themselves. Whether or not one agrees with that point of view, that's how it is currently. There's some instances where only the PC can make the skill check.
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You won't be able to select tattoo's, but that doesn't mean some characters might not end up with them, depending on how things go.</blockquote>
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So, any opinions on that Sith Lords' number mystary?
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Kortalh

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Correct me if I'm wrong here, but... shouldn't there be uhh... one? One master, one apprentice? Heck, if that tradition was started Pre-KotOR1, I don't see why it'd be any different in KotOR2.

I liked the first KotOR quite well, despite that it's not my idea of the perfect RPG. I hope they didn't pick the two people that have never seen Star Wars for their lead developer positions.
 

Vault Dweller

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Whipporowill said:
Uh. You kill them off, or talk them out of it, join them et c?
That's a natural progression of any game in regard to the enemies or bosses. You deal with them as you go thus reducing their number to something more manageable for the final showdown.. I think Akari meant something else (like a new previously undetected Sith Lord (Revan, one of your companions, etc) joining the ranks).
 

plin

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I haven't really been following this game since it was announced. Has there been any info shed on what part revan is doing in this game? And what the general story is for the game?
 

Neverwhere

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Vault Dweller said:
Whipporowill said:
Uh. You kill them off, or talk them out of it, join them et c?
That's a natural progression of any game in regard to the enemies or bosses. You deal with them as you go thus reducing their number to something more manageable for the final showdown.. I think Akari meant something else (like a new previously undetected Sith Lord (Revan, one of your companions, etc) joining the ranks).

A good old-fashioned betrayal story would be something for a change. Not some angst-ridden girlie character who you can turn back to the light side by telling her how much you love her. I wouldn't mind my character being outsmarted by one of his companions, as long as I myself don't see it coming right from the start.
 

Vault Dweller

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Revan's role is unclear. You define his gender and the ending of KOTOR. He/she would make an appearance at some point for some reasons and that's all that's officially known.
 

Gromnir

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Kortalh said:
Correct me if I'm wrong here, but... shouldn't there be uhh... one? One master, one apprentice? Heck, if that tradition was started Pre-KotOR1, I don't see why it'd be any different in KotOR2.

I liked the first KotOR quite well, despite that it's not my idea of the perfect RPG. I hope they didn't pick the two people that have never seen Star Wars for their lead developer positions.

we ain't a star wars geek, but that crap never made sense to Gromnir. one master and one apprentice? weren't there a race of folks called sith… something ‘bout how it were a race and then ex-jedi interbred with ‘em? we thought we recall something ‘bout that in kotor. weren't there a sith academy in kotor? if you got a bloody advancement where apprentice must dispatch master to advance, eventually there is gonna be a situation where both individuals is injured or destroyed. have one freaking accident where both master and apprentice die and suddenly there is no more sith... ever.

is sith a race or a religion or a philosophy… and if it is any of the aforementioned, how can there be just one master and apprentice?

…

we has always thought that lucas’ preoccupation with star wars universe continuity were kinda... amusing.

HA! Good Fun!
 

The Pope

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Jan 23, 2004
Messages
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Gromnir said:
have one freaking accident where both master and apprentice die and suddenly there is no more sith... ever.
Which is what happened in RotJ.

Then some long dead Sith spirit will corrupt a young Jedi, and the whole damn thing will began anew. I guess.
 

FireWolf

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Heh. Kyp Durran.

The term "The Sith Lords" is born from the power vacuum created when Revan "mysteriously dissapeared" after the star forge events. The sith lords themselves are the rivals who're fighting for the position of Sith master/lord of the sith/whatever. At least that's my understanding.

I think what'd be interesting for action/consequence would be by the actions your character takes in the game, different sith lords rise to power. Say you knock out one sith lord, another one gains more power indirectly, or it influences the outcome of another battle by shifting the balance of power. So, potentially, while you might think you're doing good by killing off this immediate sith lord, you're actually perpetuating the rise of a more powerful/evil sith lord which you later have to deal with. It'd be nice to see more long term or unseen consequences based upon what you do/ do not do or who you choose to help or hinder.

The rammifications of the choices in KOTOR were extremely limited. For example, the kolto on manaan didn't have any influence on anywhere else but manaan. The kashyyk revolt didn't make any difference to the gameplay elsewhere. Everything was very...disjointed.

As for the tatoos, quite probably they're related to you going down the path of the dark side and/or joining groups. Nothing like having a sodding great SLAVER tatooed on your forehead. Right?
 

Whipporowill

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It would actually be pretty cool if K2 featured different endgame battles, depending on your actions during the game - who you killed, hindered, unknowingly helped by offing the guy who would have offed him and so on.

As for the betrayal story - if they manage to develop a wellwritten sidekick who turns to the dark side and actually makes you feel crap for not noticing (if it could've been avoided) or even has planned to destroy from the start, I'd enjoy it.
 

Saint_Proverbius

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FireWolf said:
The rammifications of the choices in KOTOR were extremely limited. For example, the kolto on manaan didn't have any influence on anywhere else but manaan. The kashyyk revolt didn't make any difference to the gameplay elsewhere. Everything was very...disjointed.

That was one of my chief complaints about the game. When you have the whole KOLTO thing being one of the most important resources in the galaxy, and you fuck it up, and no one notices anywhere else in the game.. Huh?! I was expecting nearly every planet to be pissed off at me or something. You'd think all the Sith people and the Republic people would be after my head for screwing up the only source of super healing herb in existance, but there was nothing.
 

FireWolf

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The given excuse for the kolto plot not affecting the rest of the universe was that the selkath kept it secret to avoid the sith from annexing the planet and the republic pulling out for its lack of strategic importance.

Of course, they made no account of any of this elsewhere in the game, or in any other quests. Some of the quests should really have affected a larger sphere of influence than the single planet they happend on, like the wookies, the sand people, the sith academy and whatnot. But then again, I guess perhaps they were just covering themselves against hordes of complaints that because so few of the people playing the game actually put any thought into their decisions or actions, some people would be unable to do quests/find integral items and so on.

Ah well, I guess we can't hold too much of a high hope over improvements for this title. I enjoyed Kotor, i rated it as fun and there wasn't much else to do, but so many people rate it as the best game evar!!! Possibly because its the only Star Wars RPG-lite available.
 

Limorkil

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FireWolf said:
The given excuse for the kolto plot not affecting the rest of the universe was that the selkath kept it secret to avoid the sith from annexing the planet and the republic pulling out for its lack of strategic importance.

Of course, they made no account of any of this elsewhere in the game, or in any other quests. Some of the quests should really have affected a larger sphere of influence than the single planet they happend on, like the wookies, the sand people, the sith academy and whatnot. But then again, I guess perhaps they were just covering themselves against hordes of complaints that because so few of the people playing the game actually put any thought into their decisions or actions, some people would be unable to do quests/find integral items and so on.

Ah well, I guess we can't hold too much of a high hope over improvements for this title. I enjoyed Kotor, i rated it as fun and there wasn't much else to do, but so many people rate it as the best game evar!!! Possibly because its the only Star Wars RPG-lite available.

I just finished Kotor for the first time so its very fresh in my mind. There are a few people who know of the kolto incident and make reference to it, the guy behind the bar on Korriban for example, but no-one knows that you are responsible. The same is true of the rebellion on Kashyyk. There is no impact on the game.

I see Kotor as an rpg that had an inkling of the right idea, but was a bit sloppy at pulling it off. The whole light side dark side thing was good, but I honestly think they added the dark side stuff someway into the design, because bits of it do not quite sit right. Maybe the original idea was that you had to try and be light side and that being dark side was a negative thing that did not have its own plot focus, sort of like how being evil in Baldur's Gate just meant that everyone hated you and shopkeepers charged you more and that was about it. Whether this is true or not I just don't know. It is obvious that the designers had a hard time getting their head round the multiple paths concept, which is why I think that Kotor was almost an experiment in the concept. With Kotor 2 I expect a much better implementation of the same concept, with more consequences tied to the player's actions. So it's not unlikely that the player's actions will influence which Sith Lords rise and fall.

I just hope its not something bloody obvious, like you think you're working for the good jedi and it turns out he/she is really a sith lord or something. That whole "the bad guy is your boss" has been totally overdone in movies recently.
 

Diogo Ribeiro

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Limorkil said:
I just hope its not something bloody obvious, like you think you're working for the good jedi and it turns out he/she is really a sith lord or something. That whole "the bad guy is your boss" has been totally overdone in movies recently.

::somewhere, an Obsidian dev sighs and says "back to the drawing board"::
 

mr. lamat

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::somewhere, an Obsidian dev sighs and says "back to the drawing board"::

more like: if we make her a twi'ilek with huge tits no one will see it coming!
 

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