Game News Larian is making Baldur's Gate 3

[Father Foreskin]

I hope Aerie is in the works so some nostalgiafag can get a hefty dish of shit again

 

[Jedi Master Radek]

It's almost like Obsidian set up to showcase the worst possible case of RTwP in a cRPG.

What if Sawyer is a Martyr who sacrificed himself to end RTwP for good?

 

[Falksi]

A minor tweak I'd like to see is the option to obscure alignment.

Personally I'd sooner let personalities dictate how I feel towards a party member, rather than being told they're one thing or another.

Would also be nice to see folk of the same alignment conflict with each other. Just coz 2 chaotic good people meet doesn't mean they'll get on. Yes there's more scope for common ground, but its still not a given.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Would also be nice to see folk of the same alignment conflict with each other. Just coz 2 chaotic good people meet doesn't mean they'll get on. Yes there's more scope for common ground, but its still not a given.

lots of companions in BG1 of similar alignments didn't get along. Nobody really liked Tiax or Quayle at all iirc. Xan wasn't particularly well liked by anyone either.
One of the most extensive pairings was Edwin and Alora -- their alignments are complete opposites.

 

[Riddler]

I'm not even sure what's being discussed here anymore...
If we're looking for the king, it's Pokemon!
https://vgsales.fandom.com/wiki/Best_selling_RPG_games

Baldur's Gate was a popular 90s franchise.
Ray Muzyka said in a 2005. interview both games sold over 5 million units.
https://web.archive.org/web/20071023215138/www.xboxgamers.com/index.php?do=viewarticle&id=1889

That was 14 years ago and without Enhanced Editions.

SteamSpy says Divinity franchise also sold millions and it's a popular 2010s RPG franchise.
https://steamspy.com/search.php?s=divinity

There you go, every franchise was/is popular in its time.

To me this discussion looks like DOS fans are pissed because Larian is working on some 90s franchise sequel while they're waiting for DOS 3.

The order of magnitude of the success is completely different though.

Baldur's gate 1-2 were massive hits back in the day that dominated the conversation about western RPGs and is consistently rated as one of the best (if not the best) game ever in a multitude of lists to this day.

While DOS 2 was successful for Larian it is not even close to being among the top RPG franchises or releases in recent years. So DoS 2 sold 2 million? New Vegas sold almost 9 (a game made 18 months on a relatively small budget), fallout 4 sold 15, Skyrim and Witcher 30m+. The market is a shit-ton bigger these days.

2 million is obviously a massive success for a mid-sized company in a relatively niche genre these days, but not in terms of the overall market, even for RPGs (although it definitely is the biggest hit in the turn based RPG market).

Larian wants a more mainstream hit and therefore develops a game for one of the most beloved and well-known franchises in RPG history (d&d and baldurs gate). Why else would they pay the licensing fees?

 

[SionIV]

Even taking into consideration D:OS and D:OS 2, they pale in comparison to the popularity and fame that Baldur's Gate received

Take those blinders off

He's right. Baldur's Gate sold 2.2 million copies by 2003.
Internally, BioWare's worldwide sales goal was 200.000 copies.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baldur's_Gate#Sales

5 years after BG's release it sold 2.2 million copies total. 1 month after D:OS2's release it sold 700,000 copies. Considering the time since and release on consoles last year it's not hard to imagine that D:OS2's total sales figures would absolutely dwarf BG2 right now.
You can argue that there's a bigger market and easier access, but the reverse is also true: It's a heavily saturated market.

You're comparing the sales of a game that came out during early 2000, to one that came out 2014-2017. If you can't see the difference in games sold during that era, along with advertisement, digital distribution AND console, then I'm a slight bit worried. Baldur's Gate (especially II) had a much bigger impact than D:OS and D:OS2, and it reached a much higher acclaim.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Even taking into consideration D:OS and D:OS 2, they pale in comparison to the popularity and fame that Baldur's Gate received

Take those blinders off

He's right. Baldur's Gate sold 2.2 million copies by 2003.
Internally, BioWare's worldwide sales goal was 200.000 copies.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baldur's_Gate#Sales

5 years after BG's release it sold 2.2 million copies total. 1 month after D:OS2's release it sold 700,000 copies. Considering the time since and release on consoles last year it's not hard to imagine that D:OS2's total sales figures would absolutely dwarf BG2 right now.
You can argue that there's a bigger market and easier access, but the reverse is also true: It's a heavily saturated market.

You're comparing the sales of a game that came out during early 2000, to one that came out 2014-2017. If you can't see the difference in games sold during that era, along with advertisement, digital distribution AND console, then I'm a slight bit worried. Baldur's Gate (especially II) had a much bigger impact than D:OS and D:OS2, and it reached a much higher acclaim.

We already had this argument, and D:OS2 didn't release for console until late 2018, well after the first month of its release.
This site has largely stuck its head in the sand with regards to how much acclaim DOS2 received, and how well it sold. It's like arguing with a brick wall -- because the consensus is the game is disliked here it must have done poorly.

 

[SionIV]

Even taking into consideration D:OS and D:OS 2, they pale in comparison to the popularity and fame that Baldur's Gate received

Take those blinders off

He's right. Baldur's Gate sold 2.2 million copies by 2003.
Internally, BioWare's worldwide sales goal was 200.000 copies.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baldur's_Gate#Sales

5 years after BG's release it sold 2.2 million copies total. 1 month after D:OS2's release it sold 700,000 copies. Considering the time since and release on consoles last year it's not hard to imagine that D:OS2's total sales figures would absolutely dwarf BG2 right now.
You can argue that there's a bigger market and easier access, but the reverse is also true: It's a heavily saturated market.

You're comparing the sales of a game that came out during early 2000, to one that came out 2014-2017. If you can't see the difference in games sold during that era, along with advertisement, digital distribution AND console, then I'm a slight bit worried. Baldur's Gate (especially II) had a much bigger impact than D:OS and D:OS2, and it reached a much higher acclaim.

We already had this argument, and D:OS2 didn't release for console until late 2018, well after the first month of its release.
This site has largely stuck its head in the sand with regards to how much acclaim DOS2 received, and how well it sold. It's like arguing with a brick wall -- because the consensus is the game is disliked here it must have done poorly.

I'm not saying that D:OS and D:OS 2 didn't receive acclaim, and I'm not saying that they're bad games, but you can't honestly believe that D:OS has been more influential to the genre, or that it received more universal acclaim. It is a good game (some would even say great), but it's not a milestone for the genre, and I highly doubt it will be spoken about 20 years from now like Baldur's Gate is. It isn't a Diablo, Morrowind/Skyrim, Final Fantasy 7, Baldur's Gate, etc. As you can see with the examples of Final Fantasy 7 and Skyrim, receiving more acclaim doesn't translate to being a better game.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Even taking into consideration D:OS and D:OS 2, they pale in comparison to the popularity and fame that Baldur's Gate received

Take those blinders off

He's right. Baldur's Gate sold 2.2 million copies by 2003.
Internally, BioWare's worldwide sales goal was 200.000 copies.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baldur's_Gate#Sales

5 years after BG's release it sold 2.2 million copies total. 1 month after D:OS2's release it sold 700,000 copies. Considering the time since and release on consoles last year it's not hard to imagine that D:OS2's total sales figures would absolutely dwarf BG2 right now.
You can argue that there's a bigger market and easier access, but the reverse is also true: It's a heavily saturated market.

You're comparing the sales of a game that came out during early 2000, to one that came out 2014-2017. If you can't see the difference in games sold during that era, along with advertisement, digital distribution AND console, then I'm a slight bit worried. Baldur's Gate (especially II) had a much bigger impact than D:OS and D:OS2, and it reached a much higher acclaim.

We already had this argument, and D:OS2 didn't release for console until late 2018, well after the first month of its release.
This site has largely stuck its head in the sand with regards to how much acclaim DOS2 received, and how well it sold. It's like arguing with a brick wall -- because the consensus is the game is disliked here it must have done poorly.

I'm not saying that D:OS and D:OS 2 didn't receive acclaim, and I'm not saying that they're bad games, but you can't honestly believe that D:OS has been more influential to the genre, or that it received more universal acclaim. It is a good game (some would even say great), but it's not a milestone for the genre, and I highly doubt it will be spoken about 20 years from now like Baldur's Gate is. It isn't a Diablo, Morrowind/Skyrim, Final Fantasy 7, Baldur's Gate, etc. As you can see with the examples of Final Fantasy 7 and Skyrim, receiving more acclaim doesn't translate to being a better game.

You're right.
Nobody will ever look back on D:OS2 and think "Wow, that game ruined the CRPG genre for 20 years with RTwP garbage."

 

[SionIV]

Even taking into consideration D:OS and D:OS 2, they pale in comparison to the popularity and fame that Baldur's Gate received

Take those blinders off

He's right. Baldur's Gate sold 2.2 million copies by 2003.
Internally, BioWare's worldwide sales goal was 200.000 copies.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baldur's_Gate#Sales

5 years after BG's release it sold 2.2 million copies total. 1 month after D:OS2's release it sold 700,000 copies. Considering the time since and release on consoles last year it's not hard to imagine that D:OS2's total sales figures would absolutely dwarf BG2 right now.
You can argue that there's a bigger market and easier access, but the reverse is also true: It's a heavily saturated market.

You're comparing the sales of a game that came out during early 2000, to one that came out 2014-2017. If you can't see the difference in games sold during that era, along with advertisement, digital distribution AND console, then I'm a slight bit worried. Baldur's Gate (especially II) had a much bigger impact than D:OS and D:OS2, and it reached a much higher acclaim.

We already had this argument, and D:OS2 didn't release for console until late 2018, well after the first month of its release.
This site has largely stuck its head in the sand with regards to how much acclaim DOS2 received, and how well it sold. It's like arguing with a brick wall -- because the consensus is the game is disliked here it must have done poorly.

I'm not saying that D:OS and D:OS 2 didn't receive acclaim, and I'm not saying that they're bad games, but you can't honestly believe that D:OS has been more influential to the genre, or that it received more universal acclaim. It is a good game (some would even say great), but it's not a milestone for the genre, and I highly doubt it will be spoken about 20 years from now like Baldur's Gate is. It isn't a Diablo, Morrowind/Skyrim, Final Fantasy 7, Baldur's Gate, etc. As you can see with the examples of Final Fantasy 7 and Skyrim, receiving more acclaim doesn't translate to being a better game.

You're right.
Nobody will ever look back on D:OS2 and think "Wow, that game ruined the CRPG genre for 20 years with RTwP garbage."

Let me quote a post from you.

Take those blinders off

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Even taking into consideration D:OS and D:OS 2, they pale in comparison to the popularity and fame that Baldur's Gate received

Take those blinders off

He's right. Baldur's Gate sold 2.2 million copies by 2003.
Internally, BioWare's worldwide sales goal was 200.000 copies.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baldur's_Gate#Sales

5 years after BG's release it sold 2.2 million copies total. 1 month after D:OS2's release it sold 700,000 copies. Considering the time since and release on consoles last year it's not hard to imagine that D:OS2's total sales figures would absolutely dwarf BG2 right now.
You can argue that there's a bigger market and easier access, but the reverse is also true: It's a heavily saturated market.

You're comparing the sales of a game that came out during early 2000, to one that came out 2014-2017. If you can't see the difference in games sold during that era, along with advertisement, digital distribution AND console, then I'm a slight bit worried. Baldur's Gate (especially II) had a much bigger impact than D:OS and D:OS2, and it reached a much higher acclaim.

We already had this argument, and D:OS2 didn't release for console until late 2018, well after the first month of its release.
This site has largely stuck its head in the sand with regards to how much acclaim DOS2 received, and how well it sold. It's like arguing with a brick wall -- because the consensus is the game is disliked here it must have done poorly.

I'm not saying that D:OS and D:OS 2 didn't receive acclaim, and I'm not saying that they're bad games, but you can't honestly believe that D:OS has been more influential to the genre, or that it received more universal acclaim. It is a good game (some would even say great), but it's not a milestone for the genre, and I highly doubt it will be spoken about 20 years from now like Baldur's Gate is. It isn't a Diablo, Morrowind/Skyrim, Final Fantasy 7, Baldur's Gate, etc. As you can see with the examples of Final Fantasy 7 and Skyrim, receiving more acclaim doesn't translate to being a better game.

You're right.
Nobody will ever look back on D:OS2 and think "Wow, that game ruined the CRPG genre for 20 years with RTwP garbage."

Let me quote a post from you.

Take those blinders off

Are you implying I'm wrong?

 

[SionIV]

Even taking into consideration D:OS and D:OS 2, they pale in comparison to the popularity and fame that Baldur's Gate received

Take those blinders off

He's right. Baldur's Gate sold 2.2 million copies by 2003.
Internally, BioWare's worldwide sales goal was 200.000 copies.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baldur's_Gate#Sales

5 years after BG's release it sold 2.2 million copies total. 1 month after D:OS2's release it sold 700,000 copies. Considering the time since and release on consoles last year it's not hard to imagine that D:OS2's total sales figures would absolutely dwarf BG2 right now.
You can argue that there's a bigger market and easier access, but the reverse is also true: It's a heavily saturated market.

You're comparing the sales of a game that came out during early 2000, to one that came out 2014-2017. If you can't see the difference in games sold during that era, along with advertisement, digital distribution AND console, then I'm a slight bit worried. Baldur's Gate (especially II) had a much bigger impact than D:OS and D:OS2, and it reached a much higher acclaim.

We already had this argument, and D:OS2 didn't release for console until late 2018, well after the first month of its release.
This site has largely stuck its head in the sand with regards to how much acclaim DOS2 received, and how well it sold. It's like arguing with a brick wall -- because the consensus is the game is disliked here it must have done poorly.

I'm not saying that D:OS and D:OS 2 didn't receive acclaim, and I'm not saying that they're bad games, but you can't honestly believe that D:OS has been more influential to the genre, or that it received more universal acclaim. It is a good game (some would even say great), but it's not a milestone for the genre, and I highly doubt it will be spoken about 20 years from now like Baldur's Gate is. It isn't a Diablo, Morrowind/Skyrim, Final Fantasy 7, Baldur's Gate, etc. As you can see with the examples of Final Fantasy 7 and Skyrim, receiving more acclaim doesn't translate to being a better game.

You're right.
Nobody will ever look back on D:OS2 and think "Wow, that game ruined the CRPG genre for 20 years with RTwP garbage."

Let me quote a post from you.

Take those blinders off

Are you implying I'm wrong?

I'm implying that you are biased. You have your own personal opinion, and there is nothing wrong with that.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

I'm implying that you are biased. You have your own personal opinion, and there is nothing wrong with that.

RTwP being garbage isn't a personal opinion, it's a fact.

 

[SionIV]

I'm implying that you are biased. You have your own personal opinion, and there is nothing wrong with that.

RTwP being garbage isn't a personal opinion, it's a fact.

Mark Twain (I'm not sure if he had the original) has a very good quote to describe my situation right now, so I'll leave it at that and follow his advice.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

While DOS 2 was successful for Larian it is not even close to being among the top RPG franchises or releases in recent years. So DoS 2 sold 2 million? New Vegas sold almost 9 (a game made 18 months on a relatively small budget), fallout 4 sold 15, Skyrim and Witcher 30m+. The market is a shit-ton bigger these days.

Games on consoles sell more copies(Less than 1 in 3 Witcher 3 copies sold were on PC.) and older games have had more time to sell copies especially as their price has dropped. Is there any other ground breaking revelation you want to inform me of?
Also, the Witcher figure is bullshit. It includes all Witcher games, the first two you could pick up for less than a dollar for years now.

, but not in terms of the overall market, even for RPGs (although it definitely is the biggest hit in the turn based RPG market).

D:OS2 is one of the best selling PC RPGs of all time, even if it's essentially the youngest 'big hit'. How do I know? Steam had a data leak in 2018. D:OS2 had 1.7m copies sold on Steam -- with no EE, no price drop, less than a year after release, and barely any sales by this point.
https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2018...-precise-player-count-for-thousands-of-games/
Go ahead, count the non-MMO RPGs ahead of it in copies sold. It's not a very long list, even shorter if you're a 'purist' who doesn't think games like the Borderlands series are RPGs.

 

[SionIV]

I don't think this has been mentioned yet, and I'm not sure how much truth there is to this rumor.

"Andrew also states that Baldurs Gate 3 will be a console exclusive for Stadia, but PC will get it on day 1."

https://www.thenerdmag.com/rumor-google-stadia-show-scheduled-for-june-6th/

 

[Tuco Benedicto Pacifico]

While DOS 2 was successful for Larian it is not even close to being among the top RPG franchises or releases in recent years. So DoS 2 sold 2 million? New Vegas sold almost 9 (a game made 18 months on a relatively small budget), fallout 4 sold 15, Skyrim and Witcher 30m+. The market is a shit-ton bigger these days.

Games on consoles sell more copies(Less than 1 in 3 Witcher 3 copies sold were on PC.)

Aside for the fact that the wording was stupid and sensationalist in the first place ("1 in 3 copies" is precisely what you would expect when a game released on THREE platforms) that information is also out of date.
Just recently in their financial report CDPR pointed that lifetime sales of TW3 have the PC as the leading platform, with almost half (45%) of the total sales.

 

[vortex]

RTwP being garbage isn't a personal opinion, it's a fact.

You talk heresy here.

 

[Jedi Exile]

I wonder why Larian is making Baldur's Gate 3, and not Obsidian, which would be an 'obvious' choice.

 

[Falksi]

Would also be nice to see folk of the same alignment conflict with each other. Just coz 2 chaotic good people meet doesn't mean they'll get on. Yes there's more scope for common ground, but its still not a given.

lots of companions in BG1 of similar alignments didn't get along. Nobody really liked Tiax or Quayle at all iirc. Xan wasn't particularly well liked by anyone either.
One of the most extensive pairings was Edwin and Alora -- their alignments are complete opposites.

Course. Been a long time now since I played it, good to see my thinking is ahead of it's time.

 

[Sentinel]

I wonder why Larian is making Baldur's Gate 3, and not Obsidian, which would be an 'obvious' choice.

'Cause Larian made a very successful game followed by an incredible sales hit in a niche genre while Obsidian made a very successful game followed by 2 gigantic flops.
And Feargus might've burned bridges at WotC.

 

[hexer]

I wonder why Larian is making Baldur's Gate 3, and not Obsidian, which would be an 'obvious' choice.

Maybe devs have PTSD or bad experiences with WotC from the Black Hound and don't want to go through that again.

 

[Ismaul]

Infinitron since when do you openly dislike RTwP?

How are you going to maintain your rep as an Obsidian / PoE shill?

 

[Decado]

I haven't seriously played DnD since 2nd edition, which is why I liked BGII so much (even though technically, it was a weird hybrid between 2nd and 3rd editions). Does anyone think 5th edition can/will survive a translation into a CRPG?

Also, I will never understand the Codex's love of arguably terrible Euro-jank games like Owlcat's most recent disappointment. At launch, the game was an objectively terrible, buggy, broken, poorly-translated fucking mess. I realize it has been subsequently improved but they should be the absolute last company to get their hands on any kind of DnD license.

 

[Infinitron]

Infinitron since when do you openly dislike RTwP?

How are you going to maintain your rep as an Obsidian / PoE shill?

I don't personally dislike RTwP, but to say that hating RTwP on the Codex is heresy is obviously wrong.

As we say in Hebrew, "You live among your people".