Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

Last Epoch - time travel action-RPG

Tacgnol

Shitlord
Patron
Joined
Oct 12, 2010
Messages
1,871,734
Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Grab the Codex by the pussy RPG Wokedex Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath I helped put crap in Monomyth

Really? There is 10x more customisation here than D2 or D3.

Each class has three massive mastery trees and every ability in the game has it's own huge skill tree.

This is the skill tree for the summon skeleton mage ability:
s5.jpg


The game has one of these for every SKILL in the game. There are further customisations in each character mastery tree.

Edit: Sykar explain how the game has less customisation than D2/D3 rather than hiding behind your ratings.
 
Last edited:

Tacgnol

Shitlord
Patron
Joined
Oct 12, 2010
Messages
1,871,734
Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Grab the Codex by the pussy RPG Wokedex Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath I helped put crap in Monomyth
Also I'm not sure what Peachcurl is talking about there not being any skill trees?

This is the necromancer skill tree for instance:
s3.jpg
 

Peachcurl

Cipher
Joined
Jan 3, 2020
Messages
8,794
Location
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
Also I'm not sure what Peachcurl is talking about there not being any skill trees?

This is the necromancer skill tree for instance:
s3.jpg

That's a misunderstanding. I was trying to make a clear distinction between "tree of skills" and "tree of skill modifiers". Probably not as clear as I intended.

Diablo 2 has a "tree of skills": skill selection at the root / branches of the tree affects what you can select down the line.
Last Epoch does not have that, at least not for skills. Skills are unlocked linearly based on level (and mastery class investment in your example). But, for example, getting Dread Shade does not in any way depend on whether or not you also select/invested into Summon Skeletal Mage.
 

Tacgnol

Shitlord
Patron
Joined
Oct 12, 2010
Messages
1,871,734
Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Grab the Codex by the pussy RPG Wokedex Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath I helped put crap in Monomyth
Also I'm not sure what Peachcurl is talking about there not being any skill trees?

This is the necromancer skill tree for instance:
s3.jpg

That's a misunderstanding. I was trying to make a clear distinction between "tree of skills" and "tree of skill modifiers". Probably not as clear as I intended.

Diablo 2 has a "tree of skills": skill selection at the root / branches of the tree affects what you can select down the line.
Last Epoch does not have that, at least not for skills. Skills are unlocked linearly based on level (and mastery class investment in your example). But, for example, getting Dread Shade does not in any way depend on whether or not you also select/invested into Summon Skeletal Mage.

Fair enough, I probably misread what you said.

tl;dr regardless - LE has an awful lot of build customisation.
 

Tse Tse Fly

Savant
Joined
Dec 26, 2017
Messages
622
Are they going to make the playable characters look and move less like decrepit drug addicts? There isn't anyone on the roster whom I would want to play, all of them appear rather repulsive (not in a positive way).
 

Tacgnol

Shitlord
Patron
Joined
Oct 12, 2010
Messages
1,871,734
Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Grab the Codex by the pussy RPG Wokedex Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath I helped put crap in Monomyth
Are they going to make the playable characters look and move less like decrepit drug addicts? There isn't anyone on the roster whom I would want to play, all of them appear rather repulsive (not in a positive way).

Dev did say on steam forums that they'd like to have some character customisation in the future but it was low prio.

I wouldn't expect too much.

Then again they are promising art passes, so it's possible the PCs may end up looking better.
 

covr

Prophet
Patron
Joined
Sep 3, 2006
Messages
1,315
Location
Warszawa
Refunded. Each of the D2 skills is unique and fun. LE is bland and boring. Adding new subskill with +2 damage to the main skill is just a joke. But is the gameplay was fun I would accept this.

Last couple of years were simply terrible for arpgs/diablolikes. Wolcen, LE, Chaosbane and that WH:40k slasher were really bad.
 

Sykar

Arcane
Joined
Dec 2, 2014
Messages
11,297
Location
Turn right after Alpha Centauri

Really? There is 10x more customisation here than D2 or D3.

Each class has three massive mastery trees and every ability in the game has it's own huge skill tree.

This is the skill tree for the summon skeleton mage ability:
s5.jpg


The game has one of these for every SKILL in the game. There are further customisations in each character mastery tree.

Edit: Sykar explain how the game has less customisation than D2/D3 rather than hiding behind your ratings.

Because it is not just about customization. PoE has far more customization anyway and still offers 7 skills plus bar swap. Even D3 has 6 slots at least. This is about FUN. The less skills the less fun. Ergo a game with 5 skills max is shite to me which is why D2, TQ and Grim Dawn are played to this day by me while games like D3 I have not touched in years desite trying to find a nugget of joy in it but to me a big part of the reason it is not is the tight restriction in skills I can pick for a build. It is also why I gave up on Marvel Heroes once Brevik left because the new head honcho was a fucking retard who thought that going D3 is best even though they had just worked hard for over a year to update every single of the roughly 50 older champs to catch up with the recently relesed ones. So in essence that dumbfuck forced ANOTHER revamp only to get the game closed down because players were leaving in droves because many hated the change though of course you have the usual braindead fuckwits trying to defend that travesty.
Summa summarum, games like D2, TQ, GD, MH, etc made it right, you could opt to play with few skills or a lot, your choice and that was pure :incline:.
Crap like this game or D3 castrated this kind of customization and therefore are utter :decline:.
Customization is also not as great as people make it out to be. A good chunk of skill modifiers are stuff like more damage or cost reduction. /yawn.

Lastly I don't hide behind ratings I just do not want to always spell shit out.
 
Last edited:

Tacgnol

Shitlord
Patron
Joined
Oct 12, 2010
Messages
1,871,734
Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Grab the Codex by the pussy RPG Wokedex Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath I helped put crap in Monomyth
I find builds with tons of active skills are rarely that fun to play in these ARPGs, but fair enough LE probably isn't for you. The game is balanced around choosing 5 skills which you specialise deeply into.

I disagree that the uh skill skill trees (for want of a better term) are all passive bonuses, a lot of them change skills massively. They pretty much serve the same purpose as links do in Path of Exile.

Either way, at least you responded and didn't just leave it at a rating.
 

Sykar

Arcane
Joined
Dec 2, 2014
Messages
11,297
Location
Turn right after Alpha Centauri
I did not say that they were ALL just a passive bonus. :roll:
Being able to CHOOSE to specialize in a few or having a broader selection is also a form of customization one in which LE is utterly shite in.
 

Reinhardt

Arcane
Joined
Sep 4, 2015
Messages
29,229
5 skills is too many. 1 movement, 1 single taget, 1 aoe. everything else is just auras and long buffs. enough for me.
 

Hobo Elf

Arcane
Joined
Feb 17, 2009
Messages
13,997
Location
Platypus Planet
Are they going to make the playable characters look and move less like decrepit drug addicts? There isn't anyone on the roster whom I would want to play, all of them appear rather repulsive (not in a positive way).
No. The game's main monetization scheme will be the cash shop so anything that looks good or interesting will be sold there. Base effects and armor will be rudimentary, or total shit if what's already in the game is anything to go by.
 

Generic-Giant-Spider

Guest
Excuse me can I kill an entire screen of enemies in 0.5 seconds and then do this over and over and over again while a gay lightshow goes on every time I press a button?

This is a deal breaker.
 

1451

Seeker
In My Safe Space
Joined
Jan 1, 2011
Messages
1,368
Joke's on them. In PoE of exile I enjoy creating a bucket wearing half naked dude who's smashing the creatures of darkness with an oar he found on the coast after his shipwreck.
Still a bad move for a buy to play game to have mictotransactions. It's been in early access for years and will be for another one from what it seems.
I'm not saying to pirate it but they make it a damn attractive choice with their behavior.
 

Tacgnol

Shitlord
Patron
Joined
Oct 12, 2010
Messages
1,871,734
Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Grab the Codex by the pussy RPG Wokedex Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath I helped put crap in Monomyth
I care more about the performance than the artwork right now.

I'm still not convinced about the wisdom of using Unity for a game that requires decent performance. Even POE with its shitty engine and coding can maintain 144 fps on non crazy juiced maps and outside of towns with all the MTX.

They've made a lot of improvements since release, but I doubt performance will ever be amazing due to Unity.
 

Hobo Elf

Arcane
Joined
Feb 17, 2009
Messages
13,997
Location
Platypus Planet
They've made good strides with the optimization imo. It used to be unplayable, now it's playable with some of my choice Primalist builds that spam a lot of thunder effects. MY main issue with LE is that the campaign is long and boring as shit because there is zero challenge to it as all the effort is being put into the rifts or whatever they were called in LE. This hyper focus on end game hamster wheel systems is the death knell of ARPGs for normal gamers as it only attracts people with gambling addictions.
 

Peachcurl

Cipher
Joined
Jan 3, 2020
Messages
8,794
Location
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
The campaign is too easy, that is true. But so far, I am not sure how the endgame content really will be balanced in relation to that. The next patch might give a better idea of that. Not sure it's going to end up like in PoE.
 

Tacgnol

Shitlord
Patron
Joined
Oct 12, 2010
Messages
1,871,734
Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Grab the Codex by the pussy RPG Wokedex Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath I helped put crap in Monomyth
They've made good strides with the optimization imo. It used to be unplayable, now it's playable with some of my choice Primalist builds that spam a lot of thunder effects. MY main issue with LE is that the campaign is long and boring as shit because there is zero challenge to it as all the effort is being put into the rifts or whatever they were called in LE. This hyper focus on end game hamster wheel systems is the death knell of ARPGs for normal gamers as it only attracts people with gambling addictions.

They're doing a big pass on earlier campaign content apparently as they get closer to 1.0. I guess it's another "wait and see" issue.

That said, I doubt the campaign will ever get as much focus as the end game content as that's the thing that gets people to stick around for long leagues/seasons (w/e you want to call them).
 

Hobo Elf

Arcane
Joined
Feb 17, 2009
Messages
13,997
Location
Platypus Planet
They've made good strides with the optimization imo. It used to be unplayable, now it's playable with some of my choice Primalist builds that spam a lot of thunder effects. MY main issue with LE is that the campaign is long and boring as shit because there is zero challenge to it as all the effort is being put into the rifts or whatever they were called in LE. This hyper focus on end game hamster wheel systems is the death knell of ARPGs for normal gamers as it only attracts people with gambling addictions.

They're doing a big pass on earlier campaign content apparently as they get closer to 1.0. I guess it's another "wait and see" issue.

That said, I doubt the campaign will ever get as much focus as the end game content as that's the thing that gets people to stick around for long leagues/seasons (w/e you want to call them).
Yep, I'm probably just gonna refund LE once it leaves EA (if it ever does). I'm just not very thrilled with the direction this game is going in. I expected more of a non-linear and fun campaign when they marketed heavily the main gimmick of the game being the different epochs, but it's a pointless and underutilized gimmick. Oh well.
 

1451

Seeker
In My Safe Space
Joined
Jan 1, 2011
Messages
1,368
Can you even refund a game if you've played for longer than two hours.
 

Hobo Elf

Arcane
Joined
Feb 17, 2009
Messages
13,997
Location
Platypus Planet
Can you even refund a game if you've played for longer than two hours.
You have a grace period to refund a game on Steam after it leaves Early Access regardless of the hours you put in. That's why many scam games refuse to leave EA: they can't be refunded en masse then. I played KF2 for a lot of hours and refunded it on release because it ended up being a POS.
 

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Back
Top Bottom