Let's Play Betrayal At Krondor (COMPLETED)

[Gondolin]

Writing is pretty banal, though and dialogues aren't that much convincing other than being brief and to the point so you don't spend time in dialogue trees. I don't see how some of you can call it good to excellent. The occasional tongue-in-cheek dialogue is very cringesome and some of it pretty pretentious, like the Oracle's or Timirianyan gods' speech. The usual high-brow Clevian attitude that can be found anywhere. Also, the way the story has been presented in this LP, the finale makes all this intrigue and trouble spanning several chapters looks trite and inane to me.

Yup, that's Feist's writing. He has a lot of imagination, but I found Magician to be boring and poorly written. The ending made me cringe worse than this game's ending. Strangely, the game is better than the book.

 

[Hekateras]

Denizsi, I'm really not sure what you mean when you say that the writing isn't convincing or is banal and pretentious. Particularly that last one. What's supposed to be pretentious about the way the Oracle is written?

It sounds like the "high fantasy epic" writing style of the text bothers you. I'm not sure why it would - for my part, I love the unique flavour this gives the game world - but I suppose it has to do with taste and the experiences one has already had with games.

So since the eledhel were people once ingrained and bred to be subservient to the Valheru, was it the "Call" of Elvandar which helped them reject the influence of Valheru?

Reading the books is probably best if you want to have an understanding of every little detail of the setting.

But no. Elvandar didn't exist at the time of the Valheru. After the Valheru disappeared, the eledhel Spellweavers worked their magic so that gradually, over the course of centuries, the forest became the magical place that is Elvandar. They shaped it into a refuge for their kind.

 

[denizsi]

Denizsi, I'm really not sure what you mean when you say that the writing isn't convincing or is banal and pretentious. Particularly that last one. What's supposed to be pretentious about the way the Oracle is written?

It sounds like the "high fantasy epic" writing style of the text bothers you. I'm not sure why it would - for my part, I love the unique flavour this gives the game world - but I suppose it has to do with taste and the experiences one has already had with games.

That every single complete stranger giving such extensive accounts of the recent events out of blue to other complete strangers that's the player isn't convincing. Gaining information seems to be too easy for what it's worth. It's kind of nice that you don't lose time with "dialogue mini games", but this is just way too conveniant. Regardless of what you make of the information you gain, the game automatically lays out everything for you with too many information as soon as you gain new evidence etc.

There's too much back and forth of the same piece of information between the speakers, probably to ensure that the player gets it in case (s)he's a moron / has ADD and many scenes of action are written embarrassingly with pseudo make-believe explanations, eg. juvenile. "He made an arc with his sword and this happened and then that" type of silliness, not to mention the strict and comical characterisation, eg. Owyn playing the "light-humour guy" by crying "What? What sell me as a slave? Nobody is making me a slave!" a moment after Gorath already explained this shit to him or what with his general comical clumsiness, adding what's unnecessary touches of optimism to the mood in my opinion, turning the whole thing into a Hollywood parade with Will Smith moments. BANAL.

The same kind of cryptic bullshit talking pretending to be of superior intelligence you can find as uttered by every "supreme being" as in every other fantasy is present here as well by the Oracle and the Timirianyan gods and probably a few others I don't remember now, which is simply pretentious and unimaginative. It's basically very similar to Cleve ranting "you don't know what you don't know you don't know", except in less direct and more verbose styles. Honestly, I give Cleve a lot more credit for his bullshit than I'd give these fantasy supreme beings, for at least Cleve is to the point and is pretty creative and entertaining with his insults without clouding his directness.

So, you may be right, I may have a problem with "high fantasy epic" indeed if it's supposed to be semi-retarded like this all the time. Honestly, even one of the last few Harry Potter books was a lot more mature than this as a somewhat "high fantasy epic".

 

[LusciousPear]

Thanks for this wonderful LP. I would never have played BaK -- I came of age with Fallout, and these old unstructured RPGs are just too painful for me to wrap my mind around, although rewarding. I rate the plot to this as excellent, even if there was the occasional Deus Ex Machina. I spent my entire Sunday (6 hours?) reading this.

I guess I'll have to tackle TFTD

 

[Wyrmlord]

Beautiful simplicity of play with mind-boggling plot intrigues.

Yeah, I think that's exactly the feeling it delivers.

How they constructed this entire conspiracy from just people engaging in dialogue - it's amazing.

That every single complete stranger giving such extensive accounts of the recent events out of blue to other complete strangers that's the player isn't convincing. Gaining information seems to be too easy for what it's worth. It's kind of nice that you don't lose time with "dialogue mini games", but this is just way too conveniant. Regardless of what you make of the information you gain, the game automatically lays out everything for you with too many information as soon as you gain new evidence etc.

There's too much back and forth of the same piece of information between the speakers, probably to ensure that the player gets it in case (s)he's a moron / has ADD and many scenes of action are written embarrassingly with pseudo make-believe explanations, eg. juvenile. "He made an arc with his sword and this happened and then that" type of silliness, not to mention the strict and comical characterisation, eg. Owyn playing the "light-humour guy" by crying "What? What sell me as a slave? Nobody is making me a slave!" a moment after Gorath already explained this shit to him or what with his general comical clumsiness, adding what's unnecessary touches of optimism to the mood in my opinion, turning the whole thing into a Hollywood parade with Will Smith moments. BANAL.

The same kind of cryptic bullshit talking pretending to be of superior intelligence you can find as uttered by every "supreme being" as in every other fantasy is present here as well by the Oracle and the Timirianyan gods and probably a few others I don't remember now, which is simply pretentious and unimaginative. It's basically very similar to Cleve ranting "you don't know what you don't know you don't know", except in less direct and more verbose styles. Honestly, I give Cleve a lot more credit for his bullshit than I'd give these fantasy supreme beings, for at least Cleve is to the point and is pretty creative and entertaining with his insults without clouding his directness.

So, you may be right, I may have a problem with "high fantasy epic" indeed if it's supposed to be semi-retarded like this all the time. Honestly, even one of the last few Harry Potter books was a lot more mature than this as a somewhat "high fantasy epic".

That is a seriously good critique of the game, even though it is negative.

You could do an awesome job of doing these reviews of videogame stories the way that Phantom Menace guy did.

 

[denizsi]

Phantom Menace guy? From the video? I've yet to watch it.

 

[Wyrmlord]

Yeah, because what you did just gave me the idea that someone could take together every plot piece of a videogame and show how illogical and contradictory it is, the way that guy did with Phantom Menace. He also made fun how unnecessary the behaviour or actions of certain characters are or how stupid a dialogue line is, and pretty much did a scene by scene deconstruction of the movie.

And with BaK, there is so much that can be ripped apart in such a manner. Starting from what on earth Navon Du Sandou was doing in Romney, when he got robbed blind by Mitchel Waylander.

 

[Hekateras]

That every single complete stranger giving such extensive accounts of the recent events out of blue to other complete strangers that's the player isn't convincing. Gaining information seems to be too easy for what it's worth. It's kind of nice that you don't lose time with "dialogue mini games", but this is just way too conveniant. Regardless of what you make of the information you gain, the game automatically lays out everything for you with too many information as soon as you gain new evidence etc.

Too bad if that's the way you experienced the game, but I think that's because your thinking is very "meta", if you know what I mean. "There's too much information because the player doesn't need that much to solve the mystery". I don't think how much the player needs is the only factor that should be considered. I actually really like how you can meet different people and they all have tidbits to contribute about what's happening. Those NPCs live there so it makes sense that they'd have things to tell. It creates a nice sense of inner continuity. It would be illogical if the game were to magically stop giving you information as you soon as you got "enough" to solve the puzzle.

I don't really know what you mean by the same information being given over and over, either. The situation is complex and the information given usually helps understand different parts of the whole picture rather than the whole thing over and over. And since there are so many different alternate ways to solve the investigation in chapter 2, then yeah, it makes sense that there'd be a lot of different information available.

On an in-story level, I don't see how gaining information can be seen as "too easy". Quite on the contrary, it's a mentality that's different to ours, yes, but is quite realistic for the setting. This is a pseudo-medieval society. There isn't exactly a global news system, as Feist himself has emphasised. People can spend their whole lives without venturing too far out of their home town or village. Giving information about recent events to people out of the blue and receiving the same in return is pretty much the only way for the average person to learn much of anything. Not to mention that... why, exactly, would the average townsperson want to withhold information about the epidemic that struck the area, or the recent outburst of inter-guild politics? Of all the possible topics, "recent events" should surely be the easiest to breach.

not to mention the strict and comical characterisation, eg. Owyn playing the "light-humour guy" by crying "What? What sell me as a slave? Nobody is making me a slave!" a moment after Gorath already explained this shit to him or what with his general comical clumsiness, adding what's unnecessary touches of optimism to the mood in my opinion, turning the whole thing into a Hollywood parade with Will Smith moments. BANAL.

....I think you're misreading it. Yes, they discussed the plan a second ago, which should make it obvious that Owyn was just feigning shocked disbelief lest the slave trader become too suspicious. I don't think the game was trying to be funny by having Owyn "forget" that they just talked about it. And okay. You didn't like the comic relief. Your loss.

The same kind of cryptic bullshit talking pretending to be of superior intelligence you can find as uttered by every "supreme being" as in every other fantasy is present here as well by the Oracle and the Timirianyan gods and probably a few others I don't remember now, which is simply pretentious and unimaginative. It's basically very similar to Cleve ranting "you don't know what you don't know you don't know", except in less direct and more verbose styles. Honestly, I give Cleve a lot more credit for his bullshit than I'd give these fantasy supreme beings, for at least Cleve is to the point and is pretty creative and entertaining with his insults without clouding his directness.

Funny, I thought the Oracle was quite often shockingly useful in her answers. There was vague stuff, but also things like "Yes, you can trust Gorath" (a bit of an important issue, no?) and "Go to Lyton for the severed hand you need to cure the girl", "The spyglass is the more important clue and will lead you to your target", "Go to the Abbey of Ishap" And the conversation with the Timiranyan gods was a lore dump with a warning and specific instructions on how to help Pug. The only thing I could see as pretentious was "No, I won't tell you why I need you to fetch cups for me", but weren't you just complaining about NPCs being too willing to talk?

So, you may be right, I may have a problem with "high fantasy epic" indeed if it's supposed to be semi-retarded like this all the time. Honestly, even one of the last few Harry Potter books was a lot more mature than this as a somewhat "high fantasy epic".

Harry Potter isn't "high fantasy" in any way. High fantasy pretty much translates to "Swords & sorcery in an alternate, fictional world".

That aside, perhaps you should consider that what comes off as retarded to you says more about your own tastes than the merit of the work. Believe it or not, some people would describe the same elements of "high fantasy epic" as "intriguing and mystical" rather than "banal and pretentious". That's the very thing about taste and opinion. What comes off as right to you isn't by any means binding on other people.

I have to disagree with Wyrmlord about this being a good critique. Good critiques are generally a bit less hate-fuelled in tone and examine the issue from multiple perspectives, with consideration for alternate explanations, especially in-story ones, beyond "it is poorly written". The point about information being given too easily was an interesting one, though I disagree with it, but for the most part it was just "Bwaah, I hate these things that are apparently a staple of High Fantasy and it's all crap just like the last Harry Potter books were". Forgive me if I don't buy into this supposedly constructive criticism. I do not mean to offend. I can understand how this could really not be someone's cup of tea. But I do have a problem with people thinking their way of perceiving things is superior to everyone else's and that if the writing and comic relief registered as bad to them then clearly it should be bad for everyone, universally.

When discussing whether something is "good", we are, of course, in essence only exchanging perceptions and experiences. When it has been collectively decided that a piece of work is "good", it is a statement of statistics - that a large number of people liked it - rather than actual merits. So the world would probably be better off if people could learn to take their own perceptions with a pinch of salt. Even if it means considering that, for example, someone isn't inferior for liking Twilight over Tolkien (and before you ask, no, I haven't even thought about reading Twilight). It's a matter of taste and pretending otherwise likely only stems from a need for self-validation at the cost of others.

[/rant]

 

[Wyrmlord]

Yeah, all the information and lore dump is only because I made painstaking efforts to gather all information together in one place in this LP.

Information is really hard to come by in this game, and you are left to work with so little during most points of time, that the game often feels very confusing and with you knowing very little of what is going on.

What I did was to make a LP after playing the game at least three times over quite fully, and try to integrate whatever I could remember from previous plays, so that all information could be there and the game could be easy to follow. I am glad, actually, that it seems like there is too much information dumped on the player, because the alternative would have been a LP where nobody has any idea what is going on.

 

[Wyrmlord]

Writing is pretty banal, though and dialogues aren't that much convincing other than being brief and to the point so you don't spend time in dialogue trees. I don't see how some of you can call it good to excellent. The occasional tongue-in-cheek dialogue is very cringesome and some of it pretty pretentious, like the Oracle's or Timirianyan gods' speech. The usual high-brow Clevian attitude that can be found anywhere. Also, the way the story has been presented in this LP, the finale makes all this intrigue and trouble spanning several chapters looks trite and inane to me.

Yup, that's Feist's writing. He has a lot of imagination, but I found Magician to be boring and poorly written. The ending made me cringe worse than this game's ending. Strangely, the game is better than the book.

Yeah, that's because Feist only assisted in lore. This was a game written by the makers of the game themselves, as I recently found out, and it's not Feist's work actually.

Better of course, that a maker of a game write a story for a game than a maker of books make story for a game. The media differ.

 

[Wulfstand]

Thanks for this wonderful LP. I would never have played BaK -- I came of age with Fallout, and these old unstructured RPGs are just too painful for me to wrap my mind around, although rewarding. I rate the plot to this as excellent, even if there was the occasional Deus Ex Machina. I spent my entire Sunday (6 hours?) reading this.

I guess I'll have to tackle TFTD

No, you should play it. Out of all the crpgs I've played, Betrayal at Krondor is BY FAR one of easiest rpgs you could simply pick up and enjoy. It has a perfect interface, great music, very simple and enjoyable gameplay and combat (it might not have that much tactical depth, but it's pretty fast paced and overall simple, just so it won't distract you from the game's real gems (the storyline, dialogue, overall gameworld, exploration, etc)). Even more, there's an option that automatically guides your party's footsteps on the main quest, in case you get stuck. I think it's simply a must-play, for everyone in general.

Now all this talking about BaK got me thinking again on buying his books, so I ask the codex (especially Hekateras and Wyrmlord, who seem to know more on the matter): are his books worth it? At least his first trilogy (The Riftwar, right?). I've been wanting to start reading the Magician for quite a while, but it seemed like there was always something in the way.

 

[Erebus]

Now all this talking about BaK got me thinking again on buying his books, so I ask the codex (especially Hekateras and Wyrmlord, who seem to know more on the matter): are his books worth it? At least his first trilogy (The Riftwar, right?). I've been wanting to start reading the Magician for quite a while, but it seemed like there was always something in the way.

Feist writes very unoriginal heroic fantasy. I've been told he got better, but the Riftwar saga can only be enjoyable if you just haven't read a lot of heroic fantasy before (which was my case). It has elves and dwarves that are even more stereotypical than what you find in D&D fiction. It's set in the kind of generic "fantasy european Middle-Age" world that's been used a billion times. And the heroes are cliché as hell, with the possible exception of Arutha.

The Empire trilogy he co-wrote with Janny Wurts, on the other hand, is very nice. It's set in the Tsurani Empire at about the same time, although the plots are only slighty linked.

 

[Hekateras]

Now all this talking about BaK got me thinking again on buying his books, so I ask the codex (especially Hekateras and Wyrmlord, who seem to know more on the matter): are his books worth it? At least his first trilogy (The Riftwar, right?). I've been wanting to start reading the Magician for quite a while, but it seemed like there was always something in the way.

Well, for my part, I'm obviously biased. But it depends on your taste, really. I think the books are only stereotypical in the same sense that all High Fantasy is stereotypical, and do keep in mind that the first Riftwar trilogy was written, what, fifty years ago?

If I had to pick three things I like, it would be Feist's worldbuilding, his fluid take on the concept of good and evil and his imagery. The Valheru and the elves are just fascinating to read about. Villains can be admirable or worthy of sympathy while the heroes stoop to highly questionable things (such as genocide in later books, for Chrissakes). And some of the imagery is just thrilling. Whether it all works for you is just luck and taste, really.

I'd definitely recommend the first trilogy. The Empire trilogy, as mentioned, as well. Honored Enemy, the book he co-wrote with Wilhelm Fortschen, is one I would recommend as a standalone book even to someone who hasn't read the first trilogy. Beyond that, a few of the books are weaker and are more for those who just want to see where the story goes.

 

[Wyrmlord]

I was just reading my own LP again, and something seems strange.

I had absolutely no idea what was going on at all, while reading the LP. This was an overcomplicated story with 300 things going on at the same time.

So I had to take the LPer's word for it, when I was reading the cliff notes explanation of what was happening. But that LPer was me. I was the one writing the LP. I had to refer to what I wrote, in order to understand this game.

How I managed to untangle and try to understand this game 2 years back is beyond me. At this point of time, the game seems so overwhelming that I don't think I have the power to do such a LP or untangling of the plot again. Reading it on the monitor was strenuous enough. I shudder at the thought that I managed to finish it. Thrice.

It's like I have an amnesia during 2010, and the 2011 me is a totally different person from the 2009 me. The 2009 me is like some mega-Aspergers-freak able to process all that gigantic volume of information. The current me has a two-minute attention span. Additionally, 2009 was a time when I was only playing all these super-hard old games.

(I do vaguely remember that what did help me play the game was keeping an entire notebook for it. I was writing down all the plot points. At night, before going to sleep, I used to read my notes, to get any idea of what was going on in this game.)

 

[Hekateras]

Yeah, there's a lot of intrigue and stuff, but the general outline is pretty simple:

Makala wants to study the Lifestone. So he hires other Tsurani magicians to sponsor/support Delekhan, the leader of the moredhel, in invading the Kingdom, with the goal of drawing Arutha's armies to the border and away from Sethanon, making sure that the Oracle of Aal, who is guarding the Lifestone, has no reinforcements to call upon.

Unfortunately for them, Gorath decides to let Arutha know that Delekhan is planning to invade. After they fail to kill him before he delivers his message, they use him and the rest of the team by letting them "discover" the Nighthawks and the target of the first assault, thus getting Arutha's armies to the border anyway, while the actual moredhel army is transported via rift to the Dimwood.

Pug is transported off-world by taking his daughter hostage so that he can't interfere. Gorath & Co. find him, get back, stop Makala. The end.



Something that has occurred to me after thinking about it: Makala is brilliant. For almost the entirety of the game, the heroes are playing right into his hands. As obvious above, his plan of using the moredhel as a distraction is essentially a win-win scenario, only marginally complicated by Gorath's actions - either the moredhel invade, and Arutha responds to the invasion by sending his armies north, or he is warned in advance that they would invade, and he sends his armies north to prevent it. (Remember that after Gorath and Owyn are captured, they are set free by a mysterious magician and never find out who it was. In retrospect, Makala or one of the Six seem like the obvious culprits.)

When you think about it, it seems all but obvious that Tomas's convenient poisoning by a moredhel arrow is Makala's doing as well. Not only is the timing implausible otherwise, but Makala is one of the few people with the resources to research/create a (magical?) poison that could debilitate a Valheru, and through the Six also be able to equip moredhel archers with it. Not only that, it's known that Pug and Tomas are friends and that Tomas would try to rescue him, and Tomas is the only other person in Midkemia both inclined and powerful enough to mess with Makala's plans,so it's inconceivable that he wouldn't have taken measures against him, as well.

Finally, sending Pug to Timiranya was a very clever decision and he was likely justified in assuming that a rescue would either fail or not happen soon enough. Why? Magic doesn't work there. Someone coming after Pug would have to be able to traverse worlds, i.e. be a powerful magician. Powerful magicians usually do not weigh themselves down with non-magicians when visiting alien worlds. Powerful magicians (and certainly Great Ones) are also seldom experienced in non-magical combat or survival skills. Thus, anyone trying to rescue Pug would be a magician, either alone or with other magicians, and probably wouldn't last long on magic-less Timiranya in the hostile terrain and with hostile natives. So if a rescuer had walked right in, they likely would've died, and if they'd found some way to discover the planet's nature in advance, they would've tried to find some solution for it before going in, which would've taken time.

Gorath and Owyn travelling to Timiranya blindly - a warrior and a magician who is not yet too over-reliant on magic - is the first thing they do that really crashes Makala's plans. :D

There's a lot of other stuff that seems random at first but makes sense in retrospect - like the quest early in the game about gems stolen from a Tsurani Great One, which is either directly related to the fact that the Six use gems as a currency to pay for stuff, or a subtle clue.

Gah, I love this game. ^^ <3

 

[Sceptic]

Good post Hekateras I'd never thought of Makala's plans in this way when it comes to Timiranya but it definitely makes sense.

Regarding the stolen gem, most of the game's sidequests or optional stuff is related to the MQ one way or the other. There's the whole business with the Moredhel Spellweaver brothers (Nago and wossname), the whole business with Cavall Keep and the assassination attempts against the baron (you don't need to find any of this out to get to Navon, but things don't make much sense if you don't find all this out), in chapter 3 you don't actually need to follow the threads of the spider and the spyglass if you're lucky and just stumble onto the ruins under the keep, in chapter 6 you don't need to follow any of the threads to Sarth or the betraying abbot if you go directly to Elvandar (and if you know about Midkemia lore, going directly to Tomas makes a lot of sense). For such an open-ended game the structure of the plot is extremely tight, but you wouldn't know this unless you explore enough to find all the threads and how they fit together.

 

[RK47]

Thanks for this wonderful LP. I would never have played BaK -- I came of age with Fallout, and these old unstructured RPGs are just too painful for me to wrap my mind around, although rewarding. I rate the plot to this as excellent, even if there was the occasional Deus Ex Machina. I spent my entire Sunday (6 hours?) reading this.

I guess I'll have to tackle TFTD

No, you should play it. Out of all the crpgs I've played, Betrayal at Krondor is BY FAR one of easiest rpgs you could simply pick up and enjoy. It has a perfect interface, great music, very simple and enjoyable gameplay and combat (it might not have that much tactical depth, but it's pretty fast paced and overall simple, just so it won't distract you from the game's real gems (the storyline, dialogue, overall gameworld, exploration, etc)). Even more, there's an option that automatically guides your party's footsteps on the main quest, in case you get stuck. I think it's simply a must-play, for everyone in general.

Now all this talking about BaK got me thinking again on buying his books, so I ask the codex (especially Hekateras and Wyrmlord, who seem to know more on the matter): are his books worth it? At least his first trilogy (The Riftwar, right?). I've been wanting to start reading the Magician for quite a while, but it seemed like there was always something in the way.

It's easy to pick up, but the challenge can ramp up quite suddenly for the unprepared. Especially if the gamer isn't a prudent one who manage his resources carefully. The lack of difficulty slider can be very, very painful.

 

[Wyrmlord]

There's the whole business with the Moredhel Spellweaver brothers (Nago and wossname),

Narab?

One of the brothers ambushes you in the barn, and the description says that he bared his teeth, and shouted something along the lines of "GORATH LYWCHAN SOMETHING SOMETHING".

Pretty intense moment, even though it was only text. As was Narab's ambush.

 

[Mrowak]

Summary

Gah, I love this game. ^^ <3

Good plot summary.

And that's why, in spite of the passage of time Betrayal at Krondor remains the best storydriven RPG. I love how the story is integrated into the gameplay, how simingly trivial subquests turn out to make up the larger picture, and how the game does not spell out every plot point to the player (ala DA:O), allowing for the degree of guesswork and speculation. Overal, you are always kept on your toes and there's not a single moment you do not ask yourself "What happens next?".

Truly, in the hindsight it seems almost a miracle that a game like that had been conceived. Imagine Biowhores being exposed to an RPG like that... the tears of desperation, the cries of anguish, the whails of horror as they fail to understand every single plot element their encounter - if it ain't spelled out to you it ain't make no sense.

 

[Hekateras]

What about the Quest for Ale, though? :D I remember it as home to the funny moment with Owyn going all trigger-happy "I'll SHOW you a magician!"-ish and the freaking dark elf reining him in, but I'm not sure how that one tied into the MQ. Unless the reason they didn't have ale was because of the invasion or something? :D

There's the whole business with the Moredhel Spellweaver brothers (Nago and wossname),

Narab?

One of the brothers ambushes you in the barn, and the description says that he bared his teeth, and shouted something along the lines of "GORATH LYWCHAN SOMETHING SOMETHING".

Pretty intense moment, even though it was only text. As was Narab's ambush.

Hell yeah. Remember that short and violent music track to accompany it? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MaQnmxY74pw&feature=channel_video_title

Another great track: The Northlands theme. God, I get shivers just listening to it. O_O http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-5sVKAJt0Q

Dammit, Jan Paul Moorhead really hit the spot with these things. It's something entirely different from the sprawling intricacy of, say, the Assassin's Creed II track, but I'm hard-pressed to call it inferior. It does everything a track supposed to do, and does it brilliantly.

Truly, in the hindsight it seems almost a miracle that a game like that had been conceived. Imagine Biowhores being exposed to an RPG like that... the tears of desperation, the cries of anguish, the whails of horror as they fail to understand every single plot element their encounter - if it ain't spelled out to you it ain't make no sense.

Don't forget the wails of "Waaah, I'm not allowed to customise my main character,WTF is this and why is it called an RPG??!" T_T

I liked the Dragon Age games, but I won't be replaying them. I can't really put my finger on why that is, but there you have it... Although the customisable protagonist thing might have something to do with it. I just can't warm up to stories with some faceless self-insert Mary-Sue-to-be as the main Hero, who is the Hero, and don't you forget it. I often feel that modern gaming is less about telling an interactive story and more about making the player feel speshul.

Concerning Betrayal at Krondor... I have a lot of things to say, so I'll summarise again: gush gush gush GUSH gush *GUSH GUSH GUSH* guuuush. <3

By the way, time for some shameless sort-of-self-promotion. I created a Deviantart Group to collect all the Feist fanart on the web that I can get my hands on in one place. By proxy (though rather unfairly, since Feist didn't write them), that means BaK fanart. Not enough people draw stuff for it, though.

http://mockers-guild.deviantart.com/gallery/28951228

http://mockers-guild.deviantart.com/blog/32144944/

On an unrelated note: Feist's books keep getting worse and worse. I could barely get through his last one. And people keep trashing the story and characters in Krondor: The Betrayal because of how suckily he adapted it.

 

[Sceptic]

On an unrelated note: Feist's books keep getting worse and worse. I could barely get through his last one. And people keep trashing the story and characters in Krondor: The Betrayal because of how suckily he adapted it.

Funny, I got into Feist because of BAK. Read Riftwar and thought eh, not as good as BAK, but readable. Last ones I read were the Demonwar, and man that sucked. At this point I'll still wait until he finishes this last trilogy and read it, but Feist is actually the reason I never started Dark Tower, ASOIAF or WOT: I'd rather wait for the finish and make sure that it's worth reading all the way through before getting into it at all (and so far, at least with Dark Tower, and then with WOT after Jordan died, I'm glad I adopted this policy).

 

[Hekateras]

Funny, I got into Feist because of BAK. Read Riftwar and thought eh, not as good as BAK, but readable.

Yeah, same here. I remember how excited I first was that there might be something similar to the BaK story among the books... Of course, there wasn't. Owyn just dropped off the face of the earth and he never wrote about the moredhel again, either. It's like Betrayal never even happened.

I love the original trilogy and the Empire series and Honoured Enemy, but everything after that is pretty meh. His style has gone down - he keeps telling instead of showing and introducing characters via infodumps and completely failing to develop them - and he keeps jumping from one Big Problem to another without giving the previous one enough attention. Also, he keeps reusing characters - most of his newer characters are carbon copies of Jimmy the Hand or Arutha or Nicholas (as in, inexperienced young nobleman).

It's really a damn shame, but to be honest, I'm beginning to think that he never was that great of an author. It seems that he's most successful when working together with someone else, as with the co-written novels and the Betrayal storyline - and the amazing characters and concepts from the original trilogy, like Jimmy and Tomas and Arutha and the Valheru, were undoubtedly at least in part envisioned with the help of the original Friday Nighters.

 

[abnaxus]

Is there any way to kill Makala without the Winds of Eortis + Gambit of Eight combo? He is immune to all common damage spells although he can be frozen with Fetters of Rime.

 

[Mrowak]

Is there any way to kill Makala without the Winds of Eortis + Gambit of Eight combo? He is immune to all common damage spells although he can be frozen with Fetters of Rime.

First time I played I meleed him and the demons with Owyn after I froze the bastard with Fetters of Rime. By the end of the game my Owyn could tank through almost everything. You can also use some potions of strength and accuracy to give him a major boost. On some other playthrouh I gave Pug whaisname horn artifact that summons dogs. Frankly, that one fight was all too easy.

 

[Wyrmlord]

Is there any way to kill Makala without the Winds of Eortis + Gambit of Eight combo? He is immune to all common damage spells although he can be frozen with Fetters of Rime.

But Gambit of Eight was one of the most fun spells to use in the game. I myself loved cornering him with Rusalki and forcing him into corners with the landmines.