Let's Play VtM: Night Empire

[CappenVarra]

Speaking up for the Pell Mell Queen now isn't just "trolling" Turcov, it's a direct provocation in a meeting he is heading. So it's not a subtle move that disperses the momentary conflict, shows us as a good politician who handles delicate situations better than him, and results in later advantage... (if there was a vote along those lines, I guess a bunch of people would vote to take it, since it's a net plus for us). Nope, this is basically telling him to go fuck himself - how would you react if your loony sister burst in the middle of a business meeting and started babbling about kittens which will save you from satan - and instead of letting you handle it, one of your associates told her that he'll help her talk to the kittens later, if she wears a nightgown and brings plenty of lube? I'd say you'd interpret it as a direct and overly rude insult from the bloke - and that's exactly how our intervention siding with the Pell Mell Queen right now would look like. Not that we care about kissing Turcov's ass, but we know better than to be so... indelicate in political matters.

 

[Omicron]

B.
A.

 

[Storyfag]

How do you want to deal with the Sabbat situation?

B) Attempt to gain leverage with Eda Sly by letting her know privately about the den, and letting her take a share of the credit.

And what about the Queen’s intentions?

A) Stay the hell out of it.

 

[grotsnik]

So it's not a subtle move that disperses the momentary conflict, shows us as a good politician who handles delicate situations better than him, and results in later advantage... (if there was a vote along those lines, I guess a bunch of people would vote to take it, since it's a net plus for us)

I couldn't think of a choice like that that was generic and uncertain enough to stand amongst the rest (when it's 'side with X', 'side with Y', or 'perform a brilliant tactical move that unites X and Y', the choice becomes a bit obvious) but as ever, bro, if you think of a plan, please do suggest it!

 

[Surf Solar]

Glad you could use those assets somehow Grotsnik, I am still a lurker because I have to read the story from page 1, but I will eventually contribute too. If you need anything as said, just PM me.

 

[Excidium]

It's back!

I'm going with C) and A), respectively.

also:

“Shaul Artzi,” the Queen cries, turning to the bespectacled Tremere, who looks a little panicked and takes a single step backwards. “You have truly risen to glory, good mage - taking the place of that pestilent dabbler, that treacherous occultist, that arcane monstrosity! I am certain that under your sage aegis, the Tremere of London will strive on towards the light of knowledge, except in those very specific cases where the knowledge leads to the awakening of dark forces you cannot hope to understand or control.”

 

[Kalin]

C) Keep quiet about it for now and send in some of your own people to investigate/attack, taking the glory for yourself.

D) Turcov’s right, she can’t be relied upon. Wait until she’s gone, and then suggest to the others that she be somehow removed from the city.

 

[Esquilax]

Excidium, Kalin: Just curious, what is the rationale for C? Are you guys worried about an Eames situation occurring? At this point, I think who gets credit for what shouldn't be that big of an issue. Like I said, the only thing that matters now is not being inept. Outshining everybody is a bad idea.

What I'm concerned about with B is that Eda Sly might resent us for telling her about the Sabbat Den in her area because she'll think we're blackmailing her. We can let her know that we'll keep our mouths shut because we need friends more than we need leverage over her. Besides, the Den might be bullshit anyways.

As far as the Pell-mell Queen - it's hilarious how much her antics infuriate him. I'd love to figure out a way to have her piss him off some more, it might distract him from pressing matters (i.e. finding the Hunters Iacomo told us to look for)

 

[CappenVarra]

So it's not a subtle move that disperses the momentary conflict, shows us as a good politician who handles delicate situations better than him, and results in later advantage... (if there was a vote along those lines, I guess a bunch of people would vote to take it, since it's a net plus for us)

I couldn't think of a choice like that that was generic and uncertain enough to stand amongst the rest (when it's 'side with X', 'side with Y', or 'perform a brilliant tactical move that unites X and Y', the choice becomes a bit obvious) but as ever, bro, if you think of a plan, please do suggest it!

Of course, your choice writeup was perfectly fine - I wasn't asking for you to give us proppa' sneaky choices on a silver platter, I was explaining to Quan why I don't think E) can be considered mere "trolling".

Oh, and btw (missed it from all the excitement about the Pell Mell Queen and whatnot):

She raises her eyes; she isn’t lying, you know.
“Perhaps now you realise,” you tell her, “how wrong you were to believe in their nonsense. All right. Thank you for being truthful with us.”
“You’ll let me go,” the shovelhead whispers. She stares up at you.
You open your mouth to respond.
Vogler, beside you, stretches his arm out, almost lazily, and lobs the second torch down into the pool. The petrol ignites, with a flash.

It takes the female shovelhead longer to die than her comrade; she wails and squirms and batters back and forth in her chair as Cripps, unprepared for this eventuality, pops the shotgun open, reloads two shells, aims, and fires.
And suddenly you’re gazing down at two headless, human corpses, lying on their backs across the mosaic of Mithras.
Vogler gives you an apologetic smile, touches you on the shoulder, and says,
“Didn't mean to pre-empt you, old man. But, you know. Death to the Sabbat, in all of its forms. It’s a sensible strategy for any Camarilla Prince, I think.”

Estimate of Vogler's chance of being a Sabbat plant increased by 10%

 

[Gondolin]

Estimate of Vogler's chance of being a Sabbat plant increased by 10%

Thought so myself.

 

[laclongquan]

There're several hits that night. It's no stretch of imagination to think that there's another baron who can get some prisoners or two. It's not that hard.
After that, the baron in question will get the location easily enough. We are talking about your usual shovelheads here. If a newcomer like Sommers can torture info from them, nothing to say an older one can not do the same.
After that, the baron will face the same choices like us.
Which mean with Eda who is under several vise, we need a light hand to treat her. Offer her our discrete information, ask if she need helps that we will provide.
B is a good choice in this situation.

EDIT: as for E, the trolling factor is just icing on the cake. Like I described earlier, our dealing with Malk seeress was profitable, though not as we imagined it.

 

[Excidium]

Excidium, Kalin: Just curious, what is the rationale for C? Are you guys worried about an Eames situation occurring? At this point, I think who gets credit for what shouldn't be that big of an issue. Like I said, the only thing that matters now is not being inept. Outshining everybody is a bad idea.

I agree, but I want to take action against it and I didn't vote B) for the reason you pointed out.

 

[Kalin]

Oh, I figured Eda would make a poor ally, both short and long term. What with her extreme bias against new Camarilla vampires climbing the social structure, strengthening her in any way would be a mistake. Besides, there is no way of knowing if the den is important or not until it is investigated more closely, so C seems to be the way to go.

 

[Esquilax]

Oh, I figured Eda would make a poor ally, but short and long term. What with her extreme bias against new Camarilla vampires climbing the social structure, strengthening her in any way would be a mistake. Besides, there is no way of knowing if the den is important or not until it is investigated more closely, so C seems to be the way to go.

Well, powerful Camarilla vampires that actually have political clout all have extreme bias against ambitious social-climbers like Tony, so she's no different than any of her peers in that regard. That being said, you're probably right that she might be a poor ally, but for a different reason:

Eda Sly: Ventrue Baron of Southwark and Lewisham

Eda is one of the elder Ventrue in London, an old Victorian Kindred who lobbied (unsuccessfully) against Prince Kirkbeck after the fall of Anne Bowesley, which led to her dismissal to her relatively unimpressive barony on the outskirts of the city. Her bitterness has proven her weakness; rather than attempting to re-learn the new Camarilla social structure and work her way back up it, she's stewed and brooded in her rooms over the old Clink Prison on the southern banks of the river, cursing johnny-come-latelys and especially Turcov, who is her elder but a foreigner, and should not, therefore, be primogen. With Kirkbeck's death, she's begun to speak up more loudly, stating that it's her turn now; she is most likely bound to be disappointed once again.

Making friends with her would irk Turcov, which would be unfortunate if we want to give him the impression that we're subservient to him. Also, her sense of entitlement means that allying with her in hopes that she'll support our man for Prince would be difficult, to say the least. Throwing her to the wolves is tactless and might piss off all the other Barons as well.

 

[Gondolin]

Yes, but she might be somewhat less hostile to a social-climber who shows deference and sucks up to her. The downside is that she doesn't seem able to help us in any way.

 

[Hellraiser]

What if we tell Turcov about the potential sabbath den in Eda's turf?

 

[Esquilax]

What if we tell Turcov about the potential sabbath den in Eda's turf?

Wouldn't get us anything. They may hate each other, but Turcov is the most powerful baron in London - he has enough lackeys as it is, we're expendable to him.

I think that doing nothing and staying out of this Pell-mell Queen business is the right way to go. She really gets under Turcov's skin, and the longer she stays in the running for Prince, the more likely it will be to distract him from pressing concerns, such as the Hunters. That's why I favour a neutral position: she pisses Turcov off, why would we want her to leave? On the other hand, we don't want to antagonize the man either, especially after Iacomo's warning, so based on that I think that shutting up and staying put is the way to go.

For the first choice, A: Throw Eda to the Wolves seems like a really bad idea. It's a very tactless and indelicate move that indicates that we're more concerned with ratting on people than we are with getting shit done. If you want to ruin another Baron's career, don't be so brazen about it. Eda's been in London for a very long time, so even though she's not very well-liked, she has some degree of "seniority" over us.

 

[Sergiu64]

A for first and D for second.

 

[Hellraiser]

So what to do we about the old hag? We'll piss off Turcov if we let her know and Iacomo will be pissed off if we keep the info to ourselves for whatever reason.

 

[oscar]

The next time we gather at Knightsbridge, the barons of London will explain to me what they have done and what they continue to do to build Camarilla stability and strength in the city - why, if you like, they deserve to survive.

C sounds like precisely what the doctor ordered. Nothing too flashy or extravagant, but just solid work for the Camarilla. There isn't much point in helping the old hag. Chances are she'd interpret it as blackmail or think it was that upstart Tony's duty to his elder and superior anyway, rather than see it as a favour that needs to be repaid.

 

[laclongquan]

I think that doing nothing and staying out of this Pell-mell Queen business is the right way to go. She really gets under Turcov's skin, and the longer she stays in the running for Prince, the more likely it will be to distract him from pressing concerns, such as the Hunters. That's why I favour a neutral position: she pisses Turcov off, why would we want her to leave? On the other hand, we don't want to antagonize the man either, especially after Iacomo's warning, so based on that I think that shutting up and staying put is the way to go.

You make good point in that. Still, I dont think irking him a bit is out of consideration. Man try to lure our bro away, after all. Anthony should poke him back to show we aint poodle.

As for helping Eda, her being an ally is a good icing. But the main point of that is paving the way so we can poke around the place without the landlady, her, being pissed about us. We want to investigate the clue after all. We just dont want to skulk around.

 

[Computer Gamer Refugee]

Yay, welcome back Grots.

For the first choice I lean towards B). We need friends in a bad way, and a little kissing ass now is more likely to pay dividends than mucking around in another Baron's territory for what is likely an empty building at this point.

Second choice I vote A) The Pell Mell queen is a live grenade. She can do a lot of damage, but if we get near her that damage is much more likely to be near us....on the other hand, weakening Turcov is not a bad thing so I don't think we need to support him, unless he has thrown us a bone.

 

[oscar]

I think proving to Iacomo that we're a solid defender of the Camarilla is better than undertaking the task of winning this old hag's "friendship". She sounds like the type who'll simply regard any help or favours we forward her way as simply her rightful due from a young upstart. Making friends can wait (and in any case we can make better friends than her).

When the time comes, we need to have some proof that we've been working for the Camarilla, rather than mucking about in petty politics. Taking out a Sabbat base is a straightforward and relatively easy way to do this. Sounds like the perfect opportunity to at long last use the ghouls as well.

 

[laclongquan]

Like I said. It's not much about winning her as ally, though it's a happy unexpected benefit, as gaining official permission to poke around that place to look for clues. It's going to be an exhaustive effort to do so, and it's inefficient as well as uncool to skulk. If we want to attack a Sabbat base, we have to find one first.

 

[Esquilax]

I think proving to Iacomo that we're a solid defender of the Camarilla is better than undertaking the task of winning this old hag's "friendship". She sounds like the type who'll simply regard any help or favours we forward her way as simply her rightful due from a young upstart. Making friends can wait (and in any case we can make better friends than her).

When the time comes, we need to have some proof that we've been working for the Camarilla, rather than mucking about in petty politics. Taking out a Sabbat base is a straightforward and relatively easy way to do this. Sounds like the perfect opportunity to at long last use the ghouls as well.

I don't see it as winning the old hag's friendship, I see it more as demonstrating that we're a team-player and that we're not going to steal the spotlight from everybody. If our experiences have taught us anything, it's that doing awesome, brilliant shit just doesn't cut it. You can't outshine people like that.

As far as her friendship, well, we both have a common enemy in Turcov. I agree that she probably isn't going to be the most useful of allies - she appears to be entitled, arrogant, and totally unwilling to see reality or adapt to situations. She's not competent, clearly, but I see these as great weaknesses that Anthony can exploit. If we feed her ego and let her think she's important (given what we know about her, piece of cake) then maybe we can play her for our ends in some way. And we can do it without going out and hogging glory in such a tactless manner. The biggest downside is that I see it very unlikely that she would support Vogler, she is too wrapped up in wanting to be Prince for that.

As far as using the ghouls, that is a great point, but we'd be using the ghouls with B or C regardless. The only difference would be who gets credit for what. I am damn eager to finally use our team on someone. Of course, it goes without saying that we should scout the area first.