Let's Play VtM: Night Empire

[Онега]

Prolly nothing. Gangrel get permanent animalistic traits when they lose it and the beast comes free. Like ears, claws, etc. The glowing is just a Terminator reference. =D

The offer is good though. Too good... Something is wrong.

We prolly cant make Prince ourself since claiming leadership over London would just be the greatest joke ever told at the council. Bribing ourselves in is a solution that leads to being a puppet.

Licking butts of local establishment is crappy since they dont like us very much. But if make it with our candidate, we might keep our title.

Vogler is such a great opportunity.
If me make him Prince and he doesnt sacrifice us somewhere, we get to be Seneschal.
If he loses, he takes us down with him and the days of being a kewl Baron would be gone.

What to choo choo choose... Cant remember having trouble choosing an option.

B)Tell him yes – and begin trying to make contact with more likely candidates to win their support. Why bet on only one horse?
- would make him angry
C)Tell him yes – and invite him as your guest to the next council. Presumably the envoy will have arrived by then, too; the barons can get a look at him.
- what for?
D)Tell him yes, and encourage him to use his Venetian contact to try and gain a private audience with the envoy.
- privileged brats...

Fuck it, no risk no fun. Sticking to Scruffy.

E)Tell him yes, and take him downtown to the Pleasure ‘N’ Pain. The ordinary Kindred of the city need to hear about him…

 

[Esquilax]

This guy is making some pretty damn extraordinary claims - we can't be in a position where we lock ourselves in to support a guy who might be bullshitting us. We are Ventrue, so it's time to do what our Clan does best: negotiate. Remember that this man has come to court our support, not the other way around, so I feel like we've got some bargaining power here.

Our position is this: Anthony Sommers stands to lose a lot more from this run at Prince not working out than Vogler does. If this effort doesn't work out, Vogler can always go back to Swansea and he'll be none the worse off for it. On the other hand, we might not be so lucky; our position with the other Barons, already unpopular, might plummet even further and we may end up losing our Barony if the incoming Venetian Camarilla envoy sees us as unpopular among our colleagues.

If I were in Anthony's shoes, I would say something like "I feel as though I'm taking all the risk here. I am more than willing to help out, but you cannot hold out on me in any way, or I walk. First off, what makes you think you can hold London for centuries (which again, is what our Venetian envoy is looking for) when lately we've had a new Prince ruling every other week? Secondly, you have told me very little about how you intend to build strong support among Kindred to become Prince. The Barons will initially be wary of you, so we should start working among common Kindred, particularly among the Nossies and Brujah, as you mentioned."

Lastly, this powerful contact of yours I keep hearing about - I want to have a meeting with them so I know that you have some tangible support base here and that you can actually make good on what you're proposing. I feel like if I met this mysterious benefactor I would have a lot more confidence in this idea."

 

[SerratedBiz]

when lately we've had a new Prince ruling every other week?

Is this really the case? I thought Kirkbeck (sp?) had held the position for quite some time.

The Barons will initially be wary of you, so we should start working among common Kindred

As for this, I'm not sure I agree with you or Ohera. Why do we want the common Kindred to accept Vogler, when they exert so little leverage? Primogens and Barons rule their respective territories not because they're chosen by the little guys, it's because they hold power and so the big guys see a way to keep power near. Kindred don't do democracy.

I say we go for C) or, should we not be sure about our chances with the Barons, D).

D) is interesting because it keeps the ball on his side of the court: it means we don't risk anything as with the other options. On the other hand, though, it also means we owes us nothing and we can only count on his word as to our future. But it's the safest option, as I can see.

 

[ironyuri]

I vote G: Renegade interrupt: diablerise Vogler.

Make it so.

 

[Storyfag]

We definitely need to learn more about this chap *and* his powerbase. I believe D will work best to that order.

 

[Онега]

Cripps used OBFUSCATE! Its super effective!!!

 

[CappenVarra]

This guy is making some pretty damn extraordinary claims - we can't be in a position where we lock ourselves in to support a guy who might be bullshitting us. We are Ventrue, so it's time to do what our Clan does best: negotiate. Remember that this man has come to court our support, not the other way around, so I feel like we've got some bargaining power here.

Our position is this: Anthony Sommers stands to lose a lot more from this run at Prince not working out than Vogler does. If this effort doesn't work out, Vogler can always go back to Swansea and he'll be none the worse off for it. On the other hand, we might not be so lucky; our position with the other Barons, already unpopular, might plummet even further and we may end up losing our Barony if the incoming Venetian Camarilla envoy sees us as unpopular among our colleagues.

If I were in Anthony's shoes, I would say something like "I feel as though I'm taking all the risk here. I am more than willing to help out, but you cannot hold out on me in any way, or I walk. First off, what makes you think you can hold London for centuries (which again, is what our Venetian envoy is looking for) when lately we've had a new Prince ruling every other week? Secondly, you have told me very little about how you intend to build strong support among Kindred to become Prince. The Barons will initially be wary of you, so we should start working among common Kindred, particularly among the Nossies and Brujah, as you mentioned."

Lastly, this powerful contact of yours I keep hearing about - I want to have a meeting with them so I know that you have some tangible support base here and that you can actually make good on what you're proposing. I feel like if I met this mysterious benefactor I would have a lot more confidence in this idea."

This sounds right

He leans forward. A faint, eerie scarlet glow begins to creep over the top of his sunglasses.

Can someone familiar with VtM lore tell me if this means something I should know?

His eyes being red is a common Beast Mark (side-effect of a Frenzy in Gangrel), iirc. But I'm not sure they're supposed to glow all the time? This also makes him a walking masquerade violation without the sunglasses, fun times...

I think you're right to ask about this, because it happens just after that nice chat about our sire telling us not to take things at face value... And if his eyes flashed just as he was telling us that sentence (and they don't glow all the time), I think there is a number of Funky Shit (TM) that he might have been using... Overall, the guy is very dodgy, and we know very little about him... Layers within layers, if you don't know who's the patsy, etc. etc.

So, perhaps D) Tell him yes, and encourage him to use his Venetian contact to try and gain a private audience with the envoy. - but request to be present at the meeting, as well as answers to other questions Esquilax mentioned above?

 

[Kz3r0]

He leans forward. A faint, eerie scarlet glow begins to creep over the top of his sunglasses.

Can someone familiar with VtM lore tell me if this means something I should know?

By reading the chapter seems that the beast is growling.

For the vote:
A is the only sane option, he seems more deranged than your average Malk and we don't know who is backing him.
The ideal prince candidate for us would be someone that is a powerful ally or an obedient and disposable puppet, this guy is neither.

Said that I vote E, the status quo seems too much geared against us at the moment, let's give it a shake.

 

[Gondolin]

I think you're right to ask about this, because it happens just after that nice chat about our sire telling us not to take things at face value... And if his eyes flashed just as he was telling us that sentence (and they don't glow all the time), I think there is a number of Funky Shit (TM) that he might have been using... Overall, the guy is very dodgy, and we know very little about him... Layers within layers, if you don't know who's the patsy, etc. etc.

Yeah, I thought that he was using some ability or spell on us.

I like Esquilax's proposal, but we also need independent information on this guy. What I don't like is the fact that we're going in business with a guy that could snap and kill us on the spot.

 

[Storyfag]

What I don't like is the fact that we're going in business with a guy that could snap and kill us on the spot.

You misunderstand the Gangrel condition then. He's no more likely to snap than Tony is. It's just thant *when* he snaps (NOT if - all Vampires snap at least once) his body develops a bestial condition of some sort. Like permanent claws, blood-red eyes, a shaggy mane of hair, etc. Now, if we were doing business with a Brujah, then we'd indeed be in danger of him snapping and killing us on the spot, since they *not* the Gangrel, are more susceptible to snapping.

For convenience: a list of typical Clan mystical disadvantages (these are common knowledge, but just might give Tony leverage one night):

Ventrue - need to feed on a very specific vintage of blood, different for each Ventrue (our man Tony needs the blood of weak men living in fear of death); note that that does not preclude feeidng on the vitae of Vampires.
Brujah - much more susceptible to frenzy than usual Vampires.
Toreador - prone to being transfixed by objects of beauty. That makes them oblivious to all around them, including such things as dawn...
Tremere - upon Embrace each Tremere is forced to partake in the blood of the Council of Seven, forcing a degree of Clan loyalty upon him.
Malkavian - insanity runs in the blood of Malkav, though it grants his Clan a peculiar insight into things most obscure.
Nosferatu - they're butt ugly.

Gangrel - every time a Gangrel frenzies, he develops a permanent animalistic trait.
Giovanni - the bite of the Giovanni, unlike that of almost all other Vampires, does not cause pleasure to the victim. In fact, it is more painful than a usual mortal bite would be.
Ravnos - each Ravnos has a specific vice ranging from plagiarism to mass murder. When the opportunity to indulge that vice is present, the Ravnos will be hard pressed to avoid indulging it
Followers of Set - sulight is twice as deadly to Setites than to other Vampires. Even moonlight can cause some burns.
Assamites - the most common Assamites, those of the Warrior Caste, are addicted to Vampire vitae and it shows in their auras.

Lasombra - the Lasombra do not reflect in mirrors, nor are they detectable by surveillance devices.
Tzimisce - each Tzimisce must surround his resting place with earth from it's native lands (or in some cases from the place of their Embrace).

 

[Computer Gamer Refugee]

Here is the problem as I see it. If we back the wrong horse and lose we will almost certainly lose our barony (at least). Whoever wins will undoubtedly have favors to repay, and the barony of an upstart, friendless newcomer is by far the lowest fruit.

Second, the ticket of the unknown Gangrel and friendless Venture is, um, let’s be generous and call them underdogs. Before I’d even consider backing him, I’d have to hear (and confirm) the amount of horsepower that he is bringing to the table. Even so, it feels like betting your life savings at 5-1 against in Vegas. This is even worse because he would be involved in the situation, we would be committed. (The difference is that a chicken in involved in breakfast, the pig is committed). If things get too hot, he just leaves and we get deal with the consequences.

However, we don’t want to reject him out of hand; that gains us nothing. Conversely, we don’t want to jump right into bed with him. String him along a bit (perhaps even help him some) until we can confirm what kind of power he has. In the meantime, start researching the likely competition. That information is necessary regardless if we play it straight or jump ship.

I guess that makes me lean towards “B”, whether it then goes to A, C, or D depends on what he brings to the table. I defiantly do not support E, the Camarilla is not a democracy, and I seriously doubt that Vogel has enough money to make F worth the risk of pissing him off.

P.S. Can we work with a vampire that is a walking masquerade violation and does not like phones?
P.P.S. It would be nice to have a prince who can throw down if it comes to it however…


The number one priority is to make sure that we are on the winning side, whoever that is.

 

[Gondolin]

Storyfag, thanks for the info, bro.

 

[Hellraiser]

How likely is the venetian spy envoy to not bitch back in Venice about a Gangrel, with red eyes after he frenzied (which the Camarilla isn't fond of IIRC), becoming the Prince? I have the odd feeling that even the mere fact he is considered a valid candidate, will greatly displease him and his venetian benefactors. Or maybe I'm just being a paranoid dumbfuck here and Venice will see no problems whatsoever.

 

[Kz3r0]

The problem is that we have been already excluded by the other barons, our only options are profiting from in fight between them and manage to come out on top or rocking the boat, parading him around will be a good way to do so.


Edit:
And don't forget guys, the Sabbat is always recruiting if things go south.

 

[a cut of domestic sheep prime]

This guy is making some pretty damn extraordinary claims - we can't be in a position where we lock ourselves in to support a guy who might be bullshitting us. We are Ventrue, so it's time to do what our Clan does best: negotiate. Remember that this man has come to court our support, not the other way around, so I feel like we've got some bargaining power here.

Agreed.

If I ask for help from a London baron who’s already in cahoots with a more likely candidate, he’ll string me along and then fuck me over.

Good idea. M:

Vogler is an out-of-towner and somewhat of an upstart/pretender and London is a major city with a lot of history and a lot of very old kindred who aren't exactly welcoming of new blood - case and point, the way they've treated Anthony so far. Vogler won't win. So we must make him our pawn - not the other way around - and use him in a way that won't make an enemy of his contact and won't commit us publicly to his cause.

To that end, we need to find out as much as possible about him and gain access to his contact. I vote we negotiate as Esquilax suggests, then we go with B (D & E are also on the table tho'). We need to string him along, but not be too obvious about it. Basically, he'll make a good distraction.

For those interested, it was actually a toss-up as to whether the scruffy bloke was Vogler or not. The other possibility was that it was a pissed-off lowly Brujah who'd been going around complaining to the barons about the Setite's activities and being ignored every time.

Close call, guys. I still say we need to meet with the board sometime soon - it may even lead us to finding a suitable candidate for our childe. (You want vampire allies? Why not make one ourselves?)

 

[Hellraiser]

The problem with embracing ourselves a new pawn is, like mentioned before, the fact that a childe is a considerable time investment. Which Anthony may not have a whole lot of considering the current political crisis. Although the current round of backstabbing political negotiations might have helped in bringing the childe up to speed on how the Camarilla works.

I honestly think that finding out who is Vogler's benefactor would be prudent, the negotiations idea is very good. Still not sure what to vote for.

Although I can see the benefits of becoming a Ventrue antribbu in the London Sabbat if Anthony fucks up major time.

 

[a cut of domestic sheep prime]

I know you're probably kidding, but sabbat politics are a tad more violent than Sommers is used to. They would gobble up poor Tony in no time flat.
Sabbat: "Hey, aren't you the guy that killed Angelos?"
Tony: "Um..."
Sabbat:

The end.

 

[Computer Gamer Refugee]

The more I think of it, the more misgivings I have about Vogel for prince. Unless his mysterious backer is the envoy (or directly controls the envoy), I suspect that the chances of a nobody backed by a pariah are basically nonexistent (even if his backer is the envoy I would be worried). This is made worse by the feeling that failure would send us back to the political minor leagues, and there are plenty of vampires who would love to make that happen.

However, there is a different opportunity here if we can manage it. If we can convince Vogel to be willing to go for lesser post (say seneschal or even sheriff) then he gets an opportunity to play politics in a real location (better then BF Swansea), whoever becomes prince gets the support of whoever is backing Vogel, and we get to ride coat-tails to a more secure position (not to mention the prestige of managing this in the first place).

Of course carrying out a plan like this will rely heavily on Anthony’s ability at politics and persuasion. We will have to convince Vogel that the prince title is really is not in reach, but we need to make some noise and get some support (visiting the rabble at the Pleasure ‘N’ Pain?). Then we have to convince whoever we really want to make prince to accept the help (and pay the price). Vogel gets to move up in the political world, the new prince gets a smoother ride to selection, and the Camarilla gets to bring Gangrel back into the fold. Everybody wins, and Anthony? "Oh, I don't want any credit, I just want to make sure everything works for the greatest good of the party." M:


The best part is that this plays pretty well into any other “make Vogel prince” strategy, and if Vogel actually can make prince, even better.

BTW, Esquilax I agree with everything you said above.

 

[Storyfag]

Yeah, well, scratch my D vote for now. I massively support Esquilax's INVESTIGATE idea.

 

[Sergiu64]

Well, I still vote D. I'm not so sure that we have THAT much to lose. We're not likely to keep the Barony if we do nothing, and I don't think making a slight power play like this gets us put on the hit list automatically. After all, this is exactly what we expect all the barons to be doing. Just need to make sure we don't go overboard.

 

[SCO]

Stake the idiot and eat his soul. Then find the backer, and eat his soul.

Otherwise, Computer Gamer Refugee makes sense.

 

[Erebus]

I'm voting E. It'll be a show of support, but not so strong that we cannot back out and choose a different candidate later. It will shake things up a bit and other possible candidates, assuming (correctly) that we'd be more than ready to change our mind, may decide to approach us.
What we need right now is to learn more about the candidates and their strengths.

Vogler is a longshot, but he has a chance. Since the Camarilla doesn't want a prince that's from the city, the barons of London may want a prince who they don't expect to be clever and resourceful enough to rule them with a strong fist. The Gangrel stereotype may be useful to us in several ways.

 

[SCO]

It would be funny if Erika ended up prince.

After all, she's both based outside of the city, and originally from the city.

 

[Erebus]

It would be funny if Erika ended up prince.

After all, she's both based outside of the city, and originally from the city.

She was a nice character and I'd like to see her again (do we know where she went, by the way ?), but she wasn't exactly the definition of smooth, from what I remember. Also, she wasn't popular enough with the Barons for them to let her keep her function.

 

[Kz3r0]

Онега E
Kz3r0 E
Erebus E
SerratedBiz C/D
CappenVarra D
Sergiu64 D
ironyuri G Diablerie
SCO G Diablerie-- Investigate/Negotiate
Esquilax Investigate/Negotiate
Storyfag Investigate/Negotiate
Gondolin Investigate/Negotiate
Hellraiser Investigate/Negotiate
Lambchop19 Investigate/Negotiate
Computer Gamer Refugee Investigate/Negotiate
If I have got what people is proposing correctly the Investigate/Negotiate party is winning, even if the situation is still fluid.