Making a living from Virtual Items

[chrisbeddoes]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/3135247.stm

But Julian Dibbell is not trying to support himself, wife and daughter by programming or playing.

Instead in April 2004, he will declare to the US Internal Revenue Service that his main source of income is the sale of imaginary goods.

Game gear

Mr Dibbell is buying and selling virtual cash, weapons, armour, homes and other artefacts from the Ultima Online game for Earth money from his home in San Francisco.

:shock: :shock: :shock:


1000 $ in 3 weeks . That is how much he routinely makes. And he left his job for it.

 

[Astromarine]

Which just proves that if a bomb hit a MMORPG gamers' convention and killed every single one of them inside, the average Intelligence quotient for Humanity would rise about 20 points.

 

[Section8]

When you start paying somebody real money to ride the treadmill for you, you need to ask yourself if you really want to ride that treadmill in the first place.

 

[chrisbeddoes]

No he does not play the game .

He buys old accounts from teenage boys and then sells all the items in that account one by one.

For example buys one account from 500 and then in a week seel s all the items one by one for 1200 or something.

 

[Sol Invictus]

$1000 in 3 weeks is rubbish. That kind of pay would barely even be enough to support anyone living in an apartment in New York without that person living on food stamps.

Anyway, it's rather insignificant in comparison to what some EQ players used to make per sale. I've seen accounts go for $15,000 dollars, which some companies decided to buy for their EQ-addicted employees to keep them happy. The accounts weren't for the characters - obviously, but for the items that they had.

 

[chrisbeddoes]

$1000 in 3 weeks is rubbish. That kind of pay would barely even be enough to support anyone living in an apartment in New York without that person living on food stamps.

.

Who said he lives in new york ?

This money is about DOUBLE the minimum wage in Greece.


Plus he does NOT play .

He buys accounts from other players and sells them.



He goes in chat try to buy accounts with good items for the cheap then sells those items one by one .

Then he buys another account blah blah .

Now If I thought that I could do the same believe me I would.

 

[Sol Invictus]

The difference is that he isn't living in Greece, so $1000 is pretty crap, even in San Francisco. If he's got rent to pay and a family to support, he's barely making ends meet.

He doesn't have any other jobs, either. Read the end of the article. He says if someone hacks into the account he's going to fuck himself.

 

[chrisbeddoes]

The difference is that he isn't living in Greece, so $1000 is pretty crap, even in San Francisco. If he's got rent to pay and a family to support, he's barely making ends meet.

He doesn't have any other jobs, either. Read the end of the article. He says if someone hacks into the account he's going to fuck himself.

Well ok but by not going to work he sure as hell removes some expenses.

Food outside , transportation ,bussiness clothes , social expenses.

Plus he tells that he is going to report that income to IRS.

Mayby the IRS will read that article .

So he could be making more money than that but not telling that in the article .

Franly he would be stubid if he did that .

 

[Crazy Tuvok]

The difference is that he isn't living in Greece, so $1000 is pretty crap, even in San Francisco. If he's got rent to pay and a family to support, he's barely making ends meet.

He doesn't have any other jobs, either. Read the end of the article. He says if someone hacks into the account he's going to fuck himself.

*Even* in San Francisco? SF is expensive Unless he lives in a box that is not enough money to live anywhere in the US and not be below the poverty line.

I could see this as being a hobby to bring in some extra dough, but with a wife and a kid it strikes me as downright irresponsible.

 

[Psilon]

$1000 after taxes in 3 weeks isn't too bad in the southeast US if you own your car and get insurance from your job.

 

[Jed]

*Even* in San Francisco? SF is expensive.

SF is the most expensive city in the US. That's why I live in Oakland. And considering that I only make about $1200 a month, I'm always broke...

 

[chrisbeddoes]

I do not think that this guy has a university degree.

If the only other job he can find is in the Mc Donalds well I do not think that working this job is irresponsible.

 

[Quigs]

1000 is not crap =P i make a bit over 260 a week. thats a good 3 and somethin bucks above minimum wage. people can work minimum wage for 40 hours a week in a suburb with a partner, and reasonably expect a home and basic amenities.

anyway, those kinds of people kill the game anyway. i used to play everquest quite a bit, and nothing got more annoying then seeing someone who by game standards played for several years poking around the game and screwing up other peoples meager game time, because they just bought a character off of ebay instead of starting from the ground floor.

 

[fastjack]

re

just a note on the cost of living v. income argument for this guy. I live in san jose (near SF) and i wait tables for a living, i make about 450 a week after taxes and work 25-30 hrs.a week (no insurance), and i still share an apartment (and sf costs more to live there). So either he is lying, he is a loser and/or idiot, or maybe he only works like 5hrs a week now and thinks its worth it. Maybe he thinks itll get bigger?

point being 1000$ a month in the bay area is a homeless mans wage (i made 40 bucks in 3 hours hanging out a bart and panhandling for fun with my friends)

 

[Crappywarrior]

There are plenty of places in America you could live off those wages. San Franciso is not one of them. My guess is the guy's wife also works, or as was suggested already, he's lying so the IRS doesn't take as big a cut. Either way it's a pretty lame way to make a living, and I feel sorry for the morons that actually pay real money for items in UO.

 

[Sheriff05]

$1000 per 3 weeks is $16,000 a year.

The standard for poverty in 2003 for a family of 3 was $15,260.00
so this is barely enough money to not be considered living in poverty in the USA.
If your making that kind of money you shouldn't be spending your time playing PC games
unless of course his wife works and pays the bills and he stays home and makes $16K a year playing video games as a second income, then it's a whole different story.

 

[Kortalh]

$1000 per 3 weeks is $16,000 a year.

The standard for poverty in 2003 for a family of 3 was $15,260.00
so this is barely enough money to not be considered living in poverty in the USA.

You're not adding his wife into that. When you add his wife's income, which could be anywhere from $800 a month to... well, anything, really. Even if she's making only $800 a month, they're making $25,600 a year income, which is $10,00 more than the standard of poverty you mentioned.

My wife works as a full-time nurse's assistant and gets about $1200 a month. I work at a factory for about $1200 a month as well. Since my family's income is probably less than $3000 more than his, what does that make me? Trailer trash? We're not living off of food stamps, collecting welfare, and in fact we're saving up money so we can buy a modest-sized house in 5-10 years.

I don't know what sort of insanely high rent and bills people in large cities like Chicago, New York, or Los Angeles... but here in Averagesizedcity, WI, $25,000 a year isn't that horrible of an income at all.

 

[Sheriff05]

You're not adding his wife into that.

I said above IF his wife works its a whole different story-

The article "implies" he's supporting a family of three on that income
So I see the issue as really:
Is making a poverty level income from selling virtual items really noteworthy?
I'd say no, as he's no different that the guy that works at Car Wash or a Bus Boy or any other minimum wage job.

I agree $25K a year in your rural Wisconsin is a lot different than my 25K in Chicago,
no argument there..
The stupid thing about that article is they are making it out like he's
actually doing something noteworthy by doing this. If he's unemployed and doing this to make extra cash great, but if not it's pretty idiotic as there is not much job security or a future in selling shit for Ultima Online ( which I am suprised is still around). He's just freezing himself out of the real workforce by sitting on his ass.

 

[Rosh]

Come ON, folks, this is getting funny. The cost of living in Bumfuck, Wisconsin is hardly the same as for San Fran. As CT said, just about everything in SF is expensive, about the only break you can get is in food, and that's only if you know how to cook. Unless he owned a car and house outright and didn't do much besides sit at home, ~$1.333k a month isn't much at all (and keep in mind another key word, "support", which isn't too conclusive about his wife's work status either). I doubt him and his family were able to fit into the usual $500 a month studio apartments there. Utilities are usually not included, and are generally expensive.

However, that looks like it was just his initial start, and I know how the market is for UO items, so he's actually making a hell of a lot more money now that he has some economic base to work with.

 

[POOPERSCOOPER]

The fake homeless in San Fransico get more a year than that, usually as a second job too.

 

[Megatron]

I think it's funny. People pay more than the actual game for some items in it? bizarro.

He might as well just get a real job as well though. Mabye get his kid too wash cars. BIG PIMPIN'

 

[Seven]

It's funny that every one's arguing about whether he can survive on what he makes, and not the wider ethical implications of selling virtual items.

 

[Limorkil]

If I were dealing with the IRS I would try and underplay my income as much as legally possible.

Also, given that he is self-employed, I am surprised that he has any money left at all after taxes and medical insurance.

I do not see anything ethically wrong with selling virtual items. However, there is definately something mentally wrong with buying them.

 

[StraitLacedDeviant]

I think it is excellent, the companies should generate money for themselves by actually coding unique items and putting them up for sale. It could cause the catastrophic collapse of a ll economies if all money actually went on things that didn't exist. We could buy virtual food on the net and starve to death. I think that guy could survive on that little money, by eating the garbage from the recycle bin on his desktop.

 

[Rosh]

It's funny that every one's arguing about whether he can survive on what he makes, and not the wider ethical implications of selling virtual items.

Ethical implications?

What's ethical about taking money from idiots?

That's called business!