Card-Based Marvel's Midnight Suns - Marvel universe card-based tactical RPG from Firaxis

[Kem0sabe]

Yeah I don't see the genre making a return anytime soon, phoenix point not having any market impact also didn't help

 

[<3sRichardSimmons]

Yeah I don't see the genre making a return anytime soon, phoenix point not having any market impact also didn't help

Phoenix Point being a buggy mediocre mess that overpromised and under-delivered didn’t help.

But regardless, Midnight Suns is its own distinct thing from nuXCom clones; if the subgenre is dying out (which I’m not sure it is, haven’t there been semi-credible leaks that XCom3 is quite far along in development?) then I still don’t think you can point to Midnight Suns failure as evidence of that.

 

[Lacrymas]

This game is nothing like XCom, either old or new.

 

[Galdred]

probably the most interesting turn-based combat the last couple of years

I want this to not be true, but I can't quite think of a clear counterexample.

Troubleshooter and King Arthur maybe (haven't played it yet hence the maybe).

In the last couple of years, King Arthur: Knight's Tale and Jagged Alliance 3 might be the only contenders for interesting turn-based combat, though in the previous two years (2020 and 2021), there are Troubleshooter: Abandoned Children, Dungeon of Naheulbeuk, Wasteland 3, Solasta, Urtuk, and more.

I'd definitely add Chaos Gate: It is a nice refinement over the Gears of War system, even though it also suffers (to a much lesser extent, except with the DLCs) from its lack of mission variety.

 

[Cyberarmy]

Jake Solomon about the games pitch


My pitch to Take2:
-It's gonna be a Marvel game!
-Wow! One of the movies?""
-What? No. An esoteric supernatural storyline from the 90s. Me and 7 other people LOVED it.
-But-
-And it's turn-based.
-Like your-
-No, not like XCOM.
-Wait-
-Cards baby! No one will hate cards!


Sadly games main problem was their PR department. They really did their worst to kill any interest you'd for this game.

 

[Grunker]

Jake Solomon about the games pitch


My pitch to Take2:
-It's gonna be a Marvel game!
-Wow! One of the movies?""
-What? No. An esoteric supernatural storyline from the 90s. Me and 7 other people LOVED it.
-But-
-And it's turn-based.
-Like your-
-No, not like XCOM.
-Wait-
-Cards baby! No one will hate cards!


Sadly games main problem was their PR department. They really did their worst to kill any interest you'd for this game.

I mean to be fair to them, it's not an easy game to market. I also disagree. The marketing is secondary to the awful social game. No matter which way you slice it, that is the game's biggest headache for sure.

 

[abija]

Game looks great, has Marvel license and is made by a company with solid hits behind it. Good marketing should have made it profitable just based on that, regardless of the quality of the game.

 

[Assisted Living Godzilla]

Jake Solomon about the games pitch


My pitch to Take2:
-It's gonna be a Marvel game!
-Wow! One of the movies?""
-What? No. An esoteric supernatural storyline from the 90s. Me and 7 other people LOVED it.
-But-
-And it's turn-based.
-Like your-
-No, not like XCOM.
-Wait-
-Cards baby! No one will hate cards!


Sadly games main problem was their PR department. They really did their worst to kill any interest you'd for this game.

The game’s main problem was its art direction. Thing looks like fucking shit. After that it’s the cringe inducing writing that at times makes you wonder how this was stuff someone that makes a living as a writer wrote. And the next is the poorly conceived Abbey section...which ties into the bad writing. But the visuals are the first thing you see, and while not terrible on a technical level, visually everything just like of looks like cheap fucking shit.

I’m seeing people lately saying the marketing did a bad job of getting across what the game even was, but that just seems like bullshit. The marketing was pretty explicit about what it was. Maybe to a fault, since it seemed like being a “card game” was a big confusing turn off to a lot of people. I’ve even seen people lately say they didn’t even know it was a card game, but I think those people wouldn’t have know that regardless since they either just weren’t interested, or just forgot. These same people will also sometime say they thought it was XCOM with Marvel characters despite the first news about it being it played nothing like the studio’s XCOM games. Like, I don’t know how anyone that saw the trailers for this game didn’t know it was a card game when they showed the card stuff in the trailers. This is a trailer for the game:



Here’s one of the first videos where they’re selling the game. Cards in the thumbnail.

 

[Cyberarmy]

The marketing was pretty explicit about what it was. Maybe to a fault, since it seemed like being a “card game” was a big confusing turn off to a lot of people.

Let me put it that way, after watching some marketting videos for the game I decided not to touch it with a 10 foot pole in my life. After a while games release I watched one of my friends video about it. He was playing a basic mission and my god, he was really bad with it (internet commercial type of bad) but even that 10-15 mins of gameplay was enough for me to realize that this is one of the most interesting turn based combat we got for a long time. They failed to sell me that part with 10 or videos.

 

[BrotherFrank]

If it wasn’t for the marvel license this game seemed like it would have been right up my alley.

 

[abija]

But the visuals are the first thing you see, and while not terrible on a technical level, visually everything just like of looks like cheap fucking shit.

Are you talking about the trailers or game? If that's your definition of cheap looking tactical game... I'd love to see what you play. Even their animations are better than a lot of AAA action games.

 

[Lacrymas]

I liked Marvel when the X-Men were marginalized weirdos fighting for basic respect and I've always carried this with me, the movies didn't ruin it for me (it also helped that I've only watched 2 of those), so Marvel alone isn't enough to scare me off.

 

[Grunker]

The marketing was pretty explicit about what it was. Maybe to a fault, since it seemed like being a “card game” was a big confusing turn off to a lot of people.

Let me put it that way, after watching some marketting videos for the game I decided not to touch it with a 10 foot pole in my life. After a while games release I watched one of my friends video about it. He was playing a basic mission and my god, he was really bad with it (internet commercial type of bad) but even that 10-15 mins of gameplay was enough for me to realize that this is one of the most interesting turn based combat we got for a long time. They failed to sell me that part with 10 or videos.

Marketing could never sell what essentially a niche product that was forced to be marketed for mass appeal due to its budget. That's why I think blaming marketing is kind of a misnomer. The product itself is just too conflicted to ever succeed

 

[Tuco Benedicto Pacifico]

EDIT- Well, I'm late.

 

[Jaedar]

The marketing was pretty explicit about what it was. Maybe to a fault, since it seemed like being a “card game” was a big confusing turn off to a lot of people.

Let me put it that way, after watching some marketting videos for the game I decided not to touch it with a 10 foot pole in my life. After a while games release I watched one of my friends video about it. He was playing a basic mission and my god, he was really bad with it (internet commercial type of bad) but even that 10-15 mins of gameplay was enough for me to realize that this is one of the most interesting turn based combat we got for a long time. They failed to sell me that part with 10 or videos.

Marketing could never sell what essentially a niche product that was forced to be marketed for mass appeal due to its budget. That's why I think blaming marketing is kind of a misnomer. The product itself is just too conflicted to ever succeed

But did it sell better than the xcoms? Because I feel like it should have, and if it didn't it seems like an issue of timing (marvel fatigue) or poor marketing.

 

[Tuco Benedicto Pacifico]

But did it sell better than the xcoms? Because I feel like it should have, and if it didn't it seems like an issue of timing (marvel fatigue) or poor marketing.

If we go by review numbers/concurrent users on Steam to have an approximate estimation, it sold a TENTH of XCOM 2.

 

[Grunker]

The marketing was pretty explicit about what it was. Maybe to a fault, since it seemed like being a “card game” was a big confusing turn off to a lot of people.

Let me put it that way, after watching some marketting videos for the game I decided not to touch it with a 10 foot pole in my life. After a while games release I watched one of my friends video about it. He was playing a basic mission and my god, he was really bad with it (internet commercial type of bad) but even that 10-15 mins of gameplay was enough for me to realize that this is one of the most interesting turn based combat we got for a long time. They failed to sell me that part with 10 or videos.

Marketing could never sell what essentially a niche product that was forced to be marketed for mass appeal due to its budget. That's why I think blaming marketing is kind of a misnomer. The product itself is just too conflicted to ever succeed

But did it sell better than the xcoms? Because I feel like it should have, and if it didn't it seems like an issue of timing (marvel fatigue) or poor marketing.

No and why should it? XCOM was a consistent, focused product. Suns is all over the place. That's my whole point

 

[Assisted Living Godzilla]

But the visuals are the first thing you see, and while not terrible on a technical level, visually everything just like of looks like cheap fucking shit.

Are you talking about the trailers or game? If that's your definition of cheap looking tactical game... I'd love to see what you play. Even their animations are better than a lot of AAA action games.

The game. The game looks like shit. Like I said it the previous post you quoted from, while on a technical level the game isn’t terrible looking, the art direction of the thing is bad. The design of the characters themselves is horrible. The design of the costumes is horrible. The character models looks like they’re from a Xbox Live Arcade game but with better textures.

The game just looks off. The camera is off. The way objects get places in the environment looks off. The lighting and textures are good, but the overall art direction of the game is not, which makes the game overall look bad.

Here, this is not good looking:

I’m sure on a technical look that Midnight Suns Doctor Strange model is better than the one from the 2011 Marvel vs Capcom 3 game, but the Marvel vs Capcom 3 version of the character looks better. Has cooler (and more concise) looking animations for attacks too.

Visually I think Marvel Ultimate Alliance 3 on the Switch comes out looking better than this game does.

 

[Tuco Benedicto Pacifico]

I'd say that generally speaking the game is weirdly uneven.
There are part of it that look surprisingly decent, especially in motion, and in some cases you could make the argument for the game being pretty close to the pinnacle of turn-based tactical games when it comes to overall production value...
And then there are parts of it that admittedly are downright atrocious.

 

[Lacrymas]

Female Hunter looks awful, lol.

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

The game. The game looks like shit. Like I said it the previous post you quoted from, while on a technical level the game isn’t terrible looking, the art direction of the thing is bad. The design of the characters themselves is horrible. The design of the costumes is horrible. The character models looks like they’re from a Xbox Live Arcade game but with better textures.

Even on a strictly technical level, those character models don't look much better than the ones found in superhero-genre squad-based tactics games Troubleshooter: Abandoned Children, which released two-and-a-half years earlier and was the first release by a new company staffed by a handful of Koreans. Moreover, Troubleshooter: Abandoned Children had excellent, innovative gameplay.

 

[Assisted Living Godzilla]

The game. The game looks like shit. Like I said it the previous post you quoted from, while on a technical level the game isn’t terrible looking, the art direction of the thing is bad. The design of the characters themselves is horrible. The design of the costumes is horrible. The character models looks like they’re from a Xbox Live Arcade game but with better textures.

Even on a strictly technical level, those character models don't look much better than the ones found in superhero-genre squad-based tactics games Troubleshooter: Abandoned Children, which released two-and-a-half years earlier and was the first release by a new company staffed by a handful of Koreans. Moreover, Troubleshooter: Abandoned Children had excellent, innovative gameplay.

Yeah, the character models look like shit. They’re nicely textured and lit shit, but the models aren’t good looking. But that’s mostly a design issue. A design issue that seems to be some breakdown when it comes to them making models, because the concept art from what I’ve seen looks much better than what they turned it into in the game. But the models on a technical level seem like they’re of a fairly good quality, there’s no sharp edges on the models, they’re rounded where they’re meant to be. Having a quick look at the models in that Troubleshooter game, the models in this look like they’re of a higher technical quality. The animations in this seem better too.

It’s not a turn based game. But there’s that JoJo’s Bizarre Adventure: Eyes of Heaven game CyberConnect2 did. Came out back in 2015/2016. I’m going to guess its budget was on the smaller side. Looks vastly better than this game. It’s aesthetic, which is keeping in line with the manga it’s based on, looks vastly better than this game. (This game should’ve looked liked the Kubert brothers ‘90s Ghost Rider run...which was part of the whole Midnight Sons thing this game is loosely based on) It’s small 3D environments look vastly better, and the object placed in them don’t look off like the objects in this game can. And I’m not even sure the character models are technically of a higher quality in Eyes of Heaven than the ones in this game, I’m pretty sure Eyes of Heaven cheats things with textures where this game would actual model them, but Eyes of Heaven still looks way better, and it’s whole comic book aesthetic would’ve been great in this. That Kill la Kill: If game looks much better than this too, and that game has very simple cel shaded models.

I find it very strange no modern comic book video games go in on the comic book aesthetic really. Especially post Into the Spider-Verse. You’d think after that movie you’d have one Marvel or DC game that leaned into that comic book aesthetic, but the most you get are some alt costume skins in a handful of games.

 

[Jaedar]

No and why should it? XCOM was a consistent, focused product. Suns is all over the place. That's my whole point

Because I think most people who liked XCOM would like this if they tried it? And generally sales go up over time as fanbase/word of mouth gets momentum.

 

[ChildInTime]

No and why should it? XCOM was a consistent, focused product. Suns is all over the place. That's my whole point

Because I think most people who liked XCOM would like this if they tried it? And generally sales go up over time as fanbase/word of mouth gets momentum.

I for one liked the nu X-Coms cause they allowed me to customize a squad of 'your dudes' and sorta write your own little story within a story provided by the game itself, also one of the reasons I hated the chimera squad - fixed woke characters. This marvel slop looks exactly like the latter.

 

[abija]

The game. The game looks like shit. Like I said it the previous post you quoted from, while on a technical level the game isn’t terrible looking, the art direction of the thing is bad. The design of the characters themselves is horrible. The design of the costumes is horrible. The character models looks like they’re from a Xbox Live Arcade game but with better textures.

There's a big difference between cheap and shit looking. The game is closer to a waste of resource than to a cheap production. And it would be fairly easy to make a great looking trailer from combat section of the game (nevermind making custom scenes using the assets) if marketing had any skills.