Editorial Mask of the Betrayer Ten Year Anniversary Retrospective by George Ziets

[Chaotic_Heretic]

And Chris's last good storyfag game was torment. a little less than two decades ago.

I take it you haven't played F:NV's Dead Money DLC?

Cannot stand the prosperous bethesda engine with the shitty shooter combat. For me the real Fallout is and will be Turn based.

 

[hivemind]

never played this cause none of the torrents ever worked

 

[Darth Roxor]

amateur

 

[Nano]

never played this cause none of the torrents ever worked

It's on GOG, dude. Torrenting literally can't be easier.

 

[xipenec]

never played this cause none of the torrents ever worked

It's on GOG, dude. Torrenting literally can't be easier.

He is too dumb to breath. I am not, so in a quest to try Obshitian's supposed masterpiece, I dl'ed it.
And O M G, I always believed the camera complaints were overstated bullshit. How bad could it be?
W O W was I wrong.

 

[Black]

He is too dumb to breath

Joined: Dec 4, 2017

 

[xipenec]

He is too dumb to breath

Joined: Dec 4, 2017

Greate Username.

 

[Jaesun]

I think the interaction and the content of the idea in the dialogue (a minor throwback to the Bhaalspawn saga) are more impressive than the writing style. However, I would say it is comparable to PST stuff, so quite on par with MCA writing there.

Give me an example that is in any way of this well done in PST. PST does have some fucking great moments and dialogue, but not as well executed at this moment is.

I'd say the whole encounter with Ravel is on par with the Myrkul bit, and quite similar really.

*Face Palm* It's been so long that I had actually forgotten that whole encounter... THAT is very well done.

 

[Jasede]

You guys have bad memories or I have bad taste. There's of course the Ravel encounter.

There's the part where you learn your own name, which is nice because you use an item in your inventory, giving it a flourish.
The whole scene with the three incarnations, but you are right, that's not presented or executed as well.
The confrontation with the Transcendental One and the whole scripted scenes and resurrections? I think that was on par just about.

The cake, for me, though, is taken by KOTOR 2 and the scene where Kreia speaks with the three Jedi Masters near the end. That one's essentially perfect to me.
The voice acting, the music, the camera, it just works for me:



And at last, you ... saw.

 

[MasPingon]

Reading this reminiscence I just went to GOG and bought KOTOR 2, you bastards. Damn you. I was working on liking new things.

 

[Tao]

Kreia is on another fucking level. To me is one of the best NPC has ever been done and the best Star Wars character in the entire franchise. I didnt mention her because PoE is the most recent MCA work if im not mistaken.

This guy have a few youtube videos very interesting about Kreia

 

[hivemind]

kreia is the best starwars character because she is literally not a starwars character

hint: something written by a person who didn't write any of the original works can't ever be considered part of the said original, especially when it's like borderline critical deconstruction

like lmao kotor 2 is only really good and playable because it has no thematic connection to dork wars at all

 

[Tao]

Well, i didnt say she was part of the orginal neither i tried to qualify Star Wars as nothing more that it is a franchise.

So i dont see the point for you post: At the end of the day it is a Star Wars game, ergo part of the franchise, canon or not, and that is a fact.

Ty for the tip i guess?

 

[hivemind]

the point was that categorizing art by (((franchises))) is degenerate

 

[Tao]

Sorry, you must be too smart for me bc i still dont get it. You think Kreia is a bad writen character with bad dialogs/conversations or not? A bad example of MCA good work?. Because nobody is talking about "categorizing art by franchises". I'm pretty sure i'm not

 

[hivemind]

i just got triggered by you calling her a starwars character because I think dork wars are complete dogshit in every way, and because I don't believe that a completely different style of work can be considered a part of the star wars umbrella in any meaningful way despite having the logo stamped on it

i like both kreia and kotor 2

 

[Quantomas]

You guys have bad memories or I have bad taste. There's of course the Ravel encounter.

There's the part where you learn your own name, which is nice because you use an item in your inventory, giving it a flourish.
The whole scene with the three incarnations, but you are right, that's not presented or executed as well.
The confrontation with the Transcendental One and the whole scripted scenes and resurrections? I think that was on par just about.

The cake, for me, though, is taken by KOTOR 2 and the scene where Kreia speaks with the three Jedi Masters near the end. That one's essentially perfect to me.
The voice acting, the music, the camera, it just works for me:



And at last, you ... saw.

Indeed that is a powerful testament of what MCA is capable of. And it is even better than in the video shown because the entire scene adapts in many ways to what you have achieved in the game before this meeting.

The true question is whether MCA is a legend already and just cruising or if he still has his best days ahead of him.

Pathfinder: Kingmaker could potentially be another great, if it is not sidetracked by political correctness, which is a destructive force.

Back on topic, I believe George Ziets and MCA are still searching for the perfect formula. George Ziets has a powerful portfolio of high-level design skills which possibly indicates that he might be better off running his own independent studio though.

 

[Jasede]

I think that was MCA's peak, personally. But I would be delighted to be proven wrong, absolutely!

 

[Sentinel]

I'd agree that KotOR2 stands as Avellone's best work. That scene you posted is absolutely incredible, and it always amazes me how perfectly the voice actress nails Kreia. I wonder what the casting process was like.

FNV's Dead Money is another one where Avellone showcases his mastery in writing. Absolutey top tier stuff and stands as the best piece of Fallout content imo. Always a pleasure to go through that DLC. The way they connected the themes with the gameplay was very cool.

Spoiler

anyone who used the console to transport all the goldbars is a fag

As for MotB, I never managed to finish it. Despite 6 attempts, and really liking the characters and story, the UI and camera gives me aids. I can't deal with it. Came really close once though. I still install it every other year to give it a retry so maybe it'll happen.

 

[Septaryeth]

I just played PoE again and Durance was by far the most complex and fascinating NPC (Grieving mother was close too) with a lot of interesting dialogue (well mostly monologue). His "personal quest" shock me even more when the fucker suddenly cry out in realization of her goddess trickery and goes mad on his mind on a personal vendetta. It had been AGES since i read a character with that much deep in a crpg.

If i'm not wrong and MCA wrote him i think is a great example of his mastery. But then again, as i said before, it was mostly a monologue with my MC ocasional "aha go on", so there is that. Not too much of a one time conversation with multiple choices but a deep character with great lines and development

I thought Durance was a bit... too much? Maybe it's because of the reason you stated; it felt too easy to trigger that revelation without any side quest or effort.
I thought the Grieving mother was just right, but I'm a little bit skeptical now because my niece was born back then and a new life in the family have weird effects on people's perspectives on birth.
Interesting how both characters are written by MCA but lack any sort of side quests to backup their stories. Even the bard had the fetch quest in the keep dungeons...

 

[Roguey]

Interesting how both characters are written by MCA but lack any sort of side quests to backup their stories.

This is because Avellone's original plans (mind dungeons and such) were too much, so they were scaled back into exploring dialogue trees.

 

[FeelTheRads]

Well, sure, they had to make room for more of that exciting trash combat.

Also, "scaled back into exploring dialogue trees". lol, nice euphemism for gutted.

 

[Roguey]

Well, sure, they had to make room for more of that exciting trash combat.

Also, "scaled back into exploring dialogue trees". lol, nice euphemism for gutted.

The Josh Sawyer philosophy:

i do my best to require designers to design around a solid foundation of core gameplay. anything that isn't core or requires new scripting/programming has to be listed as a b-priority. if the a-priority content doesn't stand on its own, it needs to be redesigned. i've had too many experiences where a designer attempts to make something that features zero core gameplay. even if what they are doing is an interesting idea, it usually a) feels strange in the context of the game and b) is fragile/under-tested/non-robust because it's built upon auxiliary features.

in these cases i also often find that the designers don't fully understand how to use the core tools available, which is why it's important to force them to use them.

 

[Morality Games]

I think the interaction and the content of the idea in the dialogue (a minor throwback to the Bhaalspawn saga) are more impressive than the writing style. However, I would say it is comparable to PST stuff, so quite on par with MCA writing there.

Give me an example that is in any way of this well done in PST. PST does have some fucking great moments and dialogue, but not as well executed at this moment is.

I'd say the whole encounter with Ravel is on par with the Myrkul bit, and quite similar really.

For that matter, so is pretty much any conversation where the Transcendent One is a participant. Dakkon's puzzle wheel would also be a runner up, although it isn't a single conversation.

 

[FeelTheRads]

i do my best to require designers to design around a solid foundation of core gameplay. anything that isn't core or requires new scripting/programming has to be listed as a b-priority. if the a-priority content doesn't stand on its own, it needs to be redesigned. i've had too many experiences where a designer attempts to make something that features zero core gameplay. even if what they are doing is an interesting idea, it usually a) feels strange in the context of the game and b) is fragile/under-tested/non-robust because it's built upon auxiliary features.

in these cases i also often find that the designers don't fully understand how to use the core tools available, which is why it's important to force them to use them.

I see. Exploring dialogue trees is more "core gameplay" than exploring the game world and solving quests. Sure thing, bro.