Editorial Mass Effect 2 Verdict

[Mangoose]

Actually, it is part of the character system, only it is learned through use instead of being manually allocated xp points.

 

[Vibalist]

They are still there, only you don't have to spend points in them because they're in the form of the Ren / Par bars.

The problem with this system, I always thought, is that it becomes totally useless to play a character who is balanced between renegade and paragon, at least if you want to use your speech skills efficiently.

What is the idea behind a "balanced" character somehow being less convincing/charming/intimidating than some extremely good or bad dude anyway?

 

[Gosling]

That work exactly the same as Charm and Intimidate FFS.

No it doesn't. Formerly it was part of the character system, now it's just a larping tracker.

Exactly.

Though to be honest IIRC in ME 1 the number of points you could allocate to persuasion/intimidation skills was still limited by the number of Paragon/Renegade points - no more than 4 persuasion for each 25% of Paragon or something like that.

And scrapping the inventory altogether instead of improving it IS dumbing down no matter what Xor and other enlightened members of the codex think.

 

[VentilatorOfDoom]

Actually, it is part of the character system, only it is learned through use instead of being manually allocated xp points.

exactly - a larping tracker. The more extreme you larp Extreme Shepard the better you get at it.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

Actually, it is part of the character system, only it is learned through use instead of being manually allocated xp points.

exactly - a larping tracker. The more extreme you larp Extreme Shepard the better you get at it.

Nah.

ME1 speech = learn-by-buying skill system = invest points in a skill so you become better at it. Example: Fallout.

ME2 speech = learn-by-using skill system = use a skill often to become better at it. example: Morrowind.

You could call both options larping then, because in the first game you obviously always selected the options when available (otherwise, why put points in them?), so you consistently played an extreme / nice guy.

The problem with this system, I always thought, is that it becomes totally useless to play a character who is balanced between renegade and paragon, at least if you want to use your speech skills efficiently.

I dont think there is enough content in a single playthrough to keep both Paragon and Renegade bars high. Both have benefits anyway, you can't get fucked by choosing a par / ren option at the wrong time or place, so going for one of them and forgetting about the other is the more efficient way to use the speech skills anyway.

What is the idea behind a "balanced" character somehow being less convincing/charming/intimidating than some extremely good or bad dude anyway?

A guy with thuggish mannerisms will be more intimidating than a normal guy, and a captain america will be able to persuade people more efficiently than the same normal guy.

btw, Shepard is always good. He can be neutral good (normal person), or a goodie two shoes, and Renegade is just another name for "dick". Good people can be intimidating, too. Check your local tatoo parlor and look at the giant biker dude working there.

 

[Hamster]

captain america will be able to persuade people more efficiently than the same normal guy.

So, if captain america decides that a mercenary who just participated in massacre of innocent workers deserves to be shot, why exactly he becomes less able to say a couple of good words to a friend?

 

[Gosling]

Both have benefits anyway, you can't get fucked by choosing a par / ren option at the wrong time or place, so going for one of them and forgetting about the other is the more efficient way to use the speech skills anyway.

The problem with both MEs is: if you want to play a diplomatic character (in a shooter lol) and max your speech talents as quickly as you can you are automatically forced to play either an extreme paragon or extreme renegade. It's no longer about character system, game mechanics or playstyle, it affects player's choice - either play as BIO has originally intended for your one-dimensional character or your Shepard's skills would suck.
But then again the game is about being extreme and shooting stuff so that kinda validates the designers' decision.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

captain america will be able to persuade people more efficiently than the same normal guy.

So, if captain america decides that a mercenary who just participated in massacre of innocent workers deserves to be shot, why exactly he becomes less able to say a couple of good words to a friend?

Same reason you can learn how to persuade / intimidate people better because the krogan you just killed with a grenade happened to give you enough XP to level up.

GAEMPLAYIN

The problem with both MEs is: if you want to play a diplomatic character (in a shooter lol) and max your speech talents as quickly as you can you are automatically forced to play either an extreme paragon or extreme renegade.

You'rwe only forced to take the extreme / niceguy options in ME2; in ME1 you can invest in charm / intimidate and never actually use them, you just don't have to select the ren / par options that open up.

 

[Silellak]

I'm not a fan of tying morality points to speech skills, but using an ME1-imported character (giving a slighl bonus to Paragon/Renegade depending on your stats in the first game), I was able to max Renegade and have at least 75% Paragon, so it's not like you have to choose every single Renegade option to have any hope of maxing out Intimidate.

I also maxed out my class skill though, which gives a significant bonus to both Paragon and Renegade.

 

[Gosling]

The problem with both MEs is: if you want to play a diplomatic character (in a shooter lol) and max your speech talents as quickly as you can you are automatically forced to play either an extreme paragon or extreme renegade.

You'rwe only forced to take the extreme / niceguy options in ME2; in ME1 you can invest in charm / intimidate and never actually use them, you just don't have to select the ren / par options that open up.

You can only invest 4 points out of 12 if you don't choose renegade/paragon options. (You will still get big amounts of renegade/paragon points through plot-critical decisions, but I'm not sure how many)

Edit:

I'm not a fan of tying morality points to speech skills, but using an ME1-imported character (giving a slighl bonus to Paragon/Renegade depending on your stats in the first game), I was able to max Renegade and have at least 75% Paragon, so it's not like you have to choose every single Renegade option to have any hope of maxing out Intimidate.

Yes, but if you spread your Paragon/Renegade points evenly or just take your time before maxing out one of the options you might not have a high enough conversation skill in time when it is needed early in the game.

Basically the game rewards you for playing a retardedly extreme black/white character.

 

[Volourn]

"That work exactly the same as Charm and Intimidate FFS."

No.

 

[Silellak]

Yes, but if you spread your Paragon/Renegade points evenly or just take your time before maxing out one of the options you might not have a high enough conversation skill in time when it is needed early in the game.

Basically the game rewards you for playing a retardedly extreme black/white character.

Maybe I was just lucky, but I had both the persuade and intimidate options available for most situations. On rare occasion the persuade was unavailable and I only had intimidate, but that was maybe 5% of the time at most.

Like I said, I agree that the system is dumb as-is - almost as dumb as the "Terminator Shepard" that you become if you're Full Renegade - and I hope it's revised for ME3, but I didn't find it hindered or even altered my experience at all.

 

[Sceptic]

You can only invest 4 points out of 12 if you don't choose renegade/paragon options. (You will still get big amounts of renegade/paragon points through plot-critical decisions, but I'm not sure how many)

You can also get large amounts of points in non-critical dialogue too. All the non-UNC sidequests will give you points and so will some of the UNC ones. In some cases the points are "free", in other words you don't have to pick between getting either paragon or renegade points. You can even flip between Xtreme and nice guy/gal in the same dialogue and get both points (there's one on the first planet where you can tell the scientists they're safe then punch one of them). I can't be bothered to do the math but I wouldn't be surprised if it's possible to get both bars full by the end of the game.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

In some cases the points are "free", in other words you don't have to pick between getting either paragon or renegade points. You can even flip between Xtreme and nice guy/gal in the same dialogue and get both points (there's one on the first planet where you can tell the scientists they're safe then punch one of them). I can't be bothered to do the math but I wouldn't be surprised if it's possible to get both bars full by the end of the game.

anyway, wouldn't that get you less points in each one? I think instead of getting +6 ren you get +3 par and +3 ren.

 

[Sceptic]

You'd think it should, but it doesn't. The game is utterly incapable of modifying a previous point gain once it has happened. You said they're safe? +2 paragon! You punched the guy? +9 renegade! End of dialog? "You have gained 2 paragon points and 9 renegade points". And as I said both are "free options", so if you don't say they're safe none of the alternatives give any renegade points, and you don't get any paragon points for not punching him (and again there is no paragon "nice guy" alternative. You either punch him or end dialog).

 

[Pliskin]

"That work exactly the same as Charm and Intimidate FFS."

No.

Yes.

 

[Volourn]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

 

[Pliskin]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

YEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

 

[Xor]

In ME3 I want to be able to put on sunglasses after choosing a renegade option.

 

[Dny]

Ass Effect verdict :