Review Mass Effect would have been better without the RPG elements

[elander_]

What crpg elements?

 

[Texas Red]

What crpg elements?

epic win

 

[Lumpy]

What crpg elements?

epic win

Only, not really.

 

[themadhatter114]

Mass Effect is a lot more fun once your character is powerful, that's for sure. It really makes no sense to be running off doing side missions when you should be urgently trying to stop Saren, and it's ridiculous when badass Commander Shepard is a level 1 pussy.

However, if you start out with a level 50 or level 60 badass Commander Shepard, and use an Adept with an unlocked Sniper skill, you can have a lot of fun just laying shit to waste and the enemies don't feel level-scaled because they don't have room to change. The game is just so much more fun doing a speed run with a high level character.

I also had both Intimidate and Charm maxed out with one character, so my role-playing decisions were more about gameplay choices and not about level-up choices (if you do multiple playthroughs you get tons of free Charm and Intimidate points without wasting points on either one). Because I'm badass Commander Shepard, and I shouldn't have to decide which one to specialize in, I should just choose which one to use.

 

[Azarkon]

I'm not sure the article did a good job defining what a RPG is, but Bioware's games certainly straddle the adventure and RPG genres. It's not a hardcore adventure game because it has stats and level-ups and character creation, but it's not a hardcore RPG, either, because the focus isn't on character development - it's on storytelling and problem solving. I wouldn't go so far to say that Bioware games aren't RPGs, however, especially in light of how loose the definition is when applied to other games. I mean, nobody complains about The Witcher being classified as a RPG, and you don't even get to name your character in TW.

In short, ME is a RPG, albeit not a hardcore one. That's fine with me. I also don't know when "adventure game" became a bad word.

 

[Castanova]

What does naming your character have to do with role-playing? That's a terrible example.

 

[Azarkon]

Everything. Character development begins with a name, and hardcore RPGs have always allowed you to define your character - not the game. But in TW, the game's definition of the character goes far beyond the name; Gerard's personality is practically laid out for you, even if certain event and/or moral choices are yours to make. While I appreciate the focus on choice and consequence, it's not all there is to character development. C&C is only one aspect of character development. There are many other aspects, which the TW chose not to deliver on by design. That's not a knock against TW - it's a statement about how I define RPGs.

If you think my definition is stupid, that's your choice. I thought about this quite a bit in the past, and finally realized that I might as well go back to the source - ie PnP RPGs, for the core concept: character development, which begins with putting a name on the stat sheet, but of course can exist even if you don't determine the name. That's the principle distinction between RPGs and all other games. It's the reason MMORPGs and action RPGs and games like PST and NWN and TW can all claim to be RPGs - they all involve character development in one aspect or another. But for the sake of categorical usefulness, that does not make them equally RPGs. RPG would be a uselessly broad term, if they were (though I'm not against defining sub-categories of the RPG in which they could claim full membership).

The contrast, of course, would be with a game where you play a character that is never yours to develop or which severely limits your input for that purpose. TW and ME are not such games, but such games do exist - and I don't consider them RPGs. Depending on the other features, they are typically hardcore adventure games or shooters.

 

[The Feral Kid]

The article is dead on. The rpg elements are completely irrelevant and superficial. They are there just to be there, more like a gimmick and not an incorporated part of the game. I'm sure Bio would be more than happy to completely axe them if that wouldn't hurt their image as an "rpg developer". The only reason they still hang-on to these superficial and dated rpg elements in their games is because they are unwilling/lazy to re-assess their status and make a new step creatively since the established formula works. And the other reason is that they're too lazy to plan a new marketing and branding strategy and reposition themselves in the market. Since the "Rpg developer" tag works too.

I bet they thought BG was the best RPG evah, followed only by BG2.

Well, they certainly are the best evah.

 

[Volourn]

I cna't believe youa re seemingly retarded enough to claim that the BG series have better ROLE-PLAYING than ME. That's just dumb. No wonder you like this shit article.

 

[The Feral Kid]

Volourn, my dear ass, if you got Bio's icicle out of your freezing hole for a few minutes, you might be able to look up the meaning of words like Role-Playing. The word surely wasn't brought in the discussion when this game was being made.
If you're going to just show your stupidity all the time, how about not bother posting.

You are a perfect example of a ME fan and that isn't a compliment. The game sucks. Get over it.

 

[Volourn]

"Volourn, my dear ass, if you got Bio's icicle out of your freezing hole for a few minutes, you might be able to look up the meaning of words like Role-Playing. The word surely wasn't brought in the discussion when this game was being made.
If you're going to just show your stupidity all the time, how about not bother posting.

You are a perfect example of a ME fan and that isn't a compliment. The game sucks. Get over it."

As long as you continue to think that BIO's older games have better role-playing in them than ME then your opinion on anything about quality is severly.

ME > BG

Easy.

And, it has nothing to do with being A 'BIO fanboy'. Or have you forgotten? BG, and ME are both BIO games. Dumbass.

One could be a logical argument that the BG series are 'better' games (BG2 is to me; but not BG1); but there is absolutely no doubt that that ME is a better RPG.

And, ME ha everything a game needs to have to qualify as a RPG unless you are one of those idiots who think TB combvat = RPG.

Moron.

 

[The Feral Kid]

And, it has nothing to do with being A 'BIO fanboy'. Or have you forgotten? BG, and ME are both BIO games. Dumbass.

Are you trying do denounce your fanboy status by claiming that a Bio game is better than another Bio game? Idiot, try harder.

unless you are one of those idiots who think TB combvat = RPG.

Is that why I said BG series are great rpgs? Moron.

It is amazing how stupid the average fan of a bad game is. Bio knows exactly what it goes for. Targeting the money of idiots that pretend ME is anything more than running-around-in-a-wacko-space-costume-making-goofy-faces-killing-stuff.

 

[Volourn]

You crying again?


"Is that why I said BG series are great rpgs? Moron."

Then, pray tell, how exactly are the Bg series better RPGs than ME?

LMAO


"It is amazing how stupid the average fan of a bad game is."

Agreed. I have no doubt you are a fan of a lot of shitty games. R00fles!

" Bio knows exactly what it goes for."

yeah, Codexers.


" Targeting the money of idiots that pretend ME is anything more than running-around-in-a-wacko-space-costume-making-goofy-faces-killing-stuff."

Yeah, Codexers.

 

[Trash]

Come on Volourn. There used to be a time where you actually did make interesting points. You can do better than that.

Mass Effect is an interesting and often good rpg. It however has a huge number of flaws that hold it back from being a great game. Just my 2 cents.

 

[The Feral Kid]

You crying again?

Hoping that you'll drown.

Agreed. I have no doubt you are a fan of a lot of shitty games. R00fles!

Oh, pwetty please, may I have another. I can tell you have such excruciating taste.

" Bio knows exactly what it goes for."

yeah, Codexers.


" Targeting the money of idiots that pretend ME is anything more than running-around-in-a-wacko-space-costume-making-goofy-faces-killing-stuff."

Yeah, Codexers.

I see someone trying to talk their way out of their mess with a misdirection on the issue. Go ahead, make yourself look even more foolish. Consider your reality and get over yourself.

 

[Gay-Lussac]

Internet fight!!!!! Kick 'em in the balls!!!

 

[fastpunk]

It's pointless debating whether ME is an RPG or not. It's just as much an RPG as any other Bioware game. The fact that it has poor role-playing elements is a different matter.

 

[dagorkan]

The article is dead on. The rpg elements are completely irrelevant and superficial. They are there just to be there, more like a gimmick and not an incorporated part of the game. I'm sure Bio would be more than happy to completely axe them if that wouldn't hurt their image as an "rpg developer". The only reason they still hang-on to these superficial and dated rpg elements in their games is because they are unwilling/lazy to re-assess their status and make a new step creatively since the established formula works. And the other reason is that they're too lazy to plan a new marketing and branding strategy and reposition themselves in the market. Since the "Rpg developer" tag works too.

And they're doing the same with their new project the James Bond or Jason Bourne or whatever game

But then I haven't played ME and I probably won't play the JB game

 

[Thalkirst]

I am halfway through ME already. It is definitely NOT an excellent game. It is just a bit above average.

Here is my view:

1- The article has a point concerning the RPG elements. The games looks like an interactive movie and all those so-called RPG elements are somehow do not really fit into this - they do feel like an artificial additon.

2. The games tries to be linear and sandbox in the same time and fails miserably at it, just like Oblivion.

3. Also, I don't know if you noticed or not, but the loot is SCALED. As I progressed through to Level 25, I got better and better equipment from containers and enemies. A huge design flaw in my opinion, as it kills immersion.

4. Inventory management is bothersome, really. Tries to be simple, but ends up complicated. Same goes for handling level-up of your team. Also, there is no unique equipment, just assault rifile Banshee I, Banshee II, pistols called Stiker I, etc, which is an oversimplification and sure makes the whole thing even more unrealistic.

5. Voice acting is quite good, though the characters are a bit cartoonish and one dimensional. There is no real depth to them. Also, emotion is lacking in most of the dialogues - the characters sound like bored and contented, no true emotions.

6. Combat is lame, looks like a rushed tactical shooter.

7. There are elements that are plain Star Wars ripoffs.

Despite all the above, it is still fun to play. Not as good as The Witcher, but worth one play-through.

 

[Gladi]

4. Also, there is no unique equipment, just assault rifile Banshee I, Banshee II, pistols called Stiker I, etc, which is an oversimplification and sure makes the whole thing even more unrealistic.

Bright day
What is wrong with Striker, or Raikou or Kessler or Edge? They are specific series of mass manufactured weapons.

Maybe Golden Striker, handcrafted by ancient gunsmith Celeborg sounds more "neat". But I do not see how it fits the premise better.

ME has a lot of flaws and bad design decision, but I truly cannot agree with your criticism of this matter.

 

[Lumpy]

Still, why doesn't Commander Shepard have the best guns from the start?

 

[Destroid]

They should have skipped all the combat and rpg sections, and made a piece of interactive fiction! One exxtreme dialogue after another!

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

I wonder if Gaider has had enough of these snide insinuations.

 

[Destroid]

Did gaider even work on mass effect ?

 

[fastpunk]

Did gaider even work on mass effect ?

Nope. He's working on Dragon Age, which actually exists, although the hivemind thinks different.