Master of Magic remake from Thea developers and Slitherine

[DakaSha]

This will not be as good as Caster of Magic and is therefore shit.
Or is seravy involved

 

[Lacrymas]

I think they said they are going to change the balance a bit? Don't quote me on that though. They might take inspiration from Caster of Magic when rebalancing things.

 

[DakaSha]

Caster of magic is both incredibly well balanced, and has very good ai. The good ai is essential to the enjoyment of the game (imo).

Based on how this usually goes I have my doubts that they will match either.

Also Thea was fucking shit

 

[Average Manatee]

If they took Caster of Magic, added functional multiplayer with (optional) simultaneous turns and battles, higher resolution (meaning I can zoom out, not changing the gfx assets) and changed nothing else, I'd pay $20. I'll pay $0 for this.

 

[Wulfric Pinewood]

Intro looks like crap, if game is similar better stay loyal to the original.

 

[Infinitron]

http://muhagames.com/master-of-magic-dev-diary-8-february-2022/

Master of Magic Dev Diary #8 February 2022

The Magic of Master of Magic
This month we decided to go back to the beginning as it were and talk about what exactly makes Master of Magic magical? And the answer of course is spellcasting.

Over 200 Spells
Firstly, there are so many different types of spells. There are resistance spells, buffing spells, battle spells and global spells that can affect the whole world, terrain changing spells, curses, damage dealing blasts, crowd control, transforming spells, creating objects, summoning creatures and/or heroes, buffing the Wizards themselves, making your towns more efficient/or making your enemies towns suffer – the list goes on. And even within these types of spells, there are unique characteristics and effects. For example, while some spells share a simple and common mechanic, like summoning spells – they pretty much do what they say on the can, they summon things, but even they can sometimes surprise you.

Summoning spells call upon a creature of magic to serve your will. Those creatures are governed by their own set of rules, and are typically split into two types: battle only summons and world summons: that become part of your army both overland and in combat. But then, even here, you get Torin, the extra special champion that can only be recruited via a Life summoning spell. He is an exception to the summoned units and to heroes because his ‘tags’ are both “fantastic units” and “hero”. For the purpose of game mechanics then, Torin is classified as fantastic (mostly… ), so that all spells and skills that affect fantastic units can also affect him – although he has kick ass immunities, so you are not likely to affect him at all!. But, as a hero he becomes a more complex and unique case. He is presented in-game as a hero – so he is listed as one in our army, and so gets the hero equipment screen where he can be equipped with items. His presence in a town will stop it from rebelling and so on. But, he cannot be resurrected, only summoned again, and none of the spells that work on normal units (therefore also on other heroes) will work on Torin.



So even in this one example you see how Master of Magic likes to break its rules and make exceptions that give so much flavour to the game.

Spoiler

Magic Realms: Sorcery

Invisibility – this one is really powerful, it makes your unit invisible and thus impossible to hit without some countermeasures, and Mass Invisibility is a really powerful boost that makes all your units disappear from the enemy’s gaze.

*Invisibility was also a headache to implement, there were issues with handling pathfinding, how to ‘display’ the unit and so on.
The variation of possibilities in spellcasting, depending on the choice of magic books, is a wonderful thing. To give some examples of this, I’ll start with Sorcery. Sorcery is a realm specialising in illusions and the purity of magical power. It has good combat spells and summons, and can also counter and dispel enemy magic with several spells.

The realm has a good variety of battle summons. Phantom warriors are a pretty basic summon, but, as you have them from the start, they can make a difference in early game encounters. And then later, you get the Phantom Beast and Air Elemental and those can truly master the battlefield for you.



Sorcery also has a lot of ways to protect from and/or counter enemy spellcasting. To mention just a few: True Dispel – triples the power of Dispel Magic, Counterspell – creates an antimagic field that the enemy must punch through to have any of their spells working; Resist Magic – a spell that gives your units greater resistance against spell attacks or Disenchant True – another spell that is three times as powerful as its arcane counterpart and allows you to try and dispel magic cast in the world. And just to finish off the anti-magic tools, you get the super powerful Spell Lock that prevents the enemy from banishing your fantastic units or dispelling your enchantment.


Sorcery really has a lot of tricks up its sleeve, even early on in the game. One of my favourites, and a cheap spell too, is Confusion – by the power of illusion you mess with the enemy’s mind and they start acting erratically, quite often fighting their own allies. I’ve turned the tide of many early game battles with that one.

Magic Realms: Life

Life realm, on the other hand, has very few summons (although the ones it does have are pretty powerful!), so it relies more on buffing, healing and countering and attacking Life’s biggest enemies is Death and Chaos magic. While Sorcery is focused on magic as a power in itself, Life derives its power from an unknown yet ever present divine source.

With this power of the divine, the Wizard can cast such buffing spells as: Endurance for the units to move faster; Holy Weapon that can strike down creatures who cannot be harmed by mundane iron; Holy Armour that gives more protection, or High Prayer that buffs all the units, making even a humble, normal unit a formidable force to be reckoned with. To top that, the few fantastic units of Life are divinely powerful and they too further buff your friendly units in combat.


This humble halfling, was buffed with several Wizard spells, but also strengthened by the presence of Torin, unicorns and the archangel – all of whom gave additional boosts.

A Life army ready to kick some butt (though, I actually, lost that battle, badly…)
Some of the most staple spells of the realm, like Healing, or Resurrection can truly turn the tide of a battle, or even a war. But, it is in the battle against the enemies of Life (Death and often Chaos), where the realm really shines.

Note that in our current design, we are keeping the restriction of either Life or Death books owned by one Wizard, so the two remain as opposing forces in that sense too.

Conclusion
Just from this brief glance at the two realms, I hope we are recreating the true magic of the game, where you can really discover so many ways to play, to mix the magic books, to surprise yourself and your enemy with arcane strategies. There are not only three more realms that I did not talk about, but also the many possibilities of mixing the books, and the added complexity of choosing Wizard traits and the right peoples to rule, which can further influence how your magic will work.

 

[Absinthe]

This doesn't look like a game that has multiplayer. Pass.

I expect it will end up inferior to Caster of Magic.

 

[PorkaMorka]

I find it hard to trust anything associated with Slitherine, they seem to have a business model where they intentionally avoid giving you value for money, if the game doesn't have DLC, it'll be small shallow and cheap, if it's not small shallow and cheap then it will be split into a ton of different DLCs.

Maybe my experience with their games is too limited to generalize, but that's my impression.

 

[Lacrymas]

I've played two Slitherine games - Gladius and Fantasy General 2 - and that's not the case in either of them.

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

Err, both of these games have quite aggressive dlc policy and both are overpriced.

 

[Lacrymas]

Err, both of these games have quite aggressive dlc policy and both are overpriced.

Not on sale or in bundles ;d Outside of that, do they really? Fantasy General 2 has 3 DLCs that add huge campaigns. Is that a super aggressive DLC policy? If it is, AoE3 also has a such a policy. Gladius has more DLC, and the unit packs are a bit tasteless, but the faction DLCs are not imo. The game launched with 4 very diverse factions and a single faction can hold your attention for quite a while. And again, you can wait for a sale. It's nowhere near Paradox's DLC policy.

 

[PorkaMorka]

Fantasy General 2 is 39.99 and has 65$ worth of DLC

Gladius is 39.99 and has $106.88 worth of DLC

That's not necessarily a big deal, if you really like the game, but Siltherine games are hit and miss and there is a good chance that I might not like it. I've gotten burned before.

Normally a game made in Eastern Europe by a "small indie developer" (Muha games still claims on their website to be small and indie) will have a lower price, less DLC and will go on sale more often, so it's a lot less of a risk.

 

[Lacrymas]

65 dollars? FG2 only has 3 DLCs. Unless you mean the hero edition upgrade? That's the soundtrack and stuff. And again, get all of that on discount, otherwise yeah.

 

[Irata]

While you're waiting for this some guy did his best to recreate the MoM using Unity. I haven't played MoM recently so I really can't say how faithful this is. Sorry if this has already been posted.
https://klockan3.itch.io/wizards-of-mastery

Includes all the 200 spells and 160 units, 13 races, the wizard retorts, heroes, artifacts, dungeons, mana nodes, planes etc.

Supports multiplayer, extensive modding, an ingame encyclopaedia containing all these things and quick battle previews where you can choose to replay if you didn't like the results. Every unit, race, spell, ability, hero, item effect, retory, dungeon, loot etc is implemented in mod files and I made some example mods shipping with the game, so it should be really easy for people to make their own mods.

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

So he took the game and made the presentation much worse, otherwise porting it as it was? Bless the modders and their so simple, yet so complicated minds.

 

[Galdred]

Fantasy General 2 is 39.99 and has 65$ worth of DLC

Gladius is 39.99 and has $106.88 worth of DLC

That's not necessarily a big deal, if you really like the game, but Siltherine games are hit and miss and there is a good chance that I might not like it. I've gotten burned before.

Normally a game made in Eastern Europe by a "small indie developer" (Muha games still claims on their website to be small and indie) will have a lower price, less DLC and will go on sale more often, so it's a lot less of a risk.

It's survival of the fittest:
They release games in a (relatively) rough state, and add content/development time for the ones that perform well.

 

[holla_cabezas_de_mierda]

'slitherine' (and matrix) don't really make games themselves, they support games and support a bunch of developers who make games that run from very low quality phone ports to grognard simulation type wargames such as War in the East, War in the Pacific, or the just released Campaign Series Vietnam , to high quality simulations like Distant Worlds 2-- or even half broken would be masterpieces (but perhaps impossible to actually make into a workable computer game with an actual working AI) like World in Flames. So it really just depends.

 

[Blake00]

While you're waiting for this some guy did his best to recreate the MoM using Unity. I haven't played MoM recently so I really can't say how faithful this is. Sorry if this has already been posted.
https://klockan3.itch.io/wizards-of-mastery

Includes all the 200 spells and 160 units, 13 races, the wizard retorts, heroes, artifacts, dungeons, mana nodes, planes etc.

Supports multiplayer, extensive modding, an ingame encyclopaedia containing all these things and quick battle previews where you can choose to replay if you didn't like the results. Every unit, race, spell, ability, hero, item effect, retory, dungeon, loot etc is implemented in mod files and I made some example mods shipping with the game, so it should be really easy for people to make their own mods.

Ahh yes one of the members of the MoM Discord I run posted about this game. Sounds good.. although it looks a bit rough. Don't suppose fans have made some graphics improvement mods for it?

I should add that if people are looking for an actual MoM clone/rebuild then Implodes MoM HD Multiplayer Edition is past version 1.0 these days and has AIs that are apparently quite good at killing people.
https://sourceforge.net/projects/momime/

.

 

[Absinthe]

While you're waiting for this some guy did his best to recreate the MoM using Unity. I haven't played MoM recently so I really can't say how faithful this is. Sorry if this has already been posted.
https://klockan3.itch.io/wizards-of-mastery

Includes all the 200 spells and 160 units, 13 races, the wizard retorts, heroes, artifacts, dungeons, mana nodes, planes etc.

Supports multiplayer, extensive modding, an ingame encyclopaedia containing all these things and quick battle previews where you can choose to replay if you didn't like the results. Every unit, race, spell, ability, hero, item effect, retory, dungeon, loot etc is implemented in mod files and I made some example mods shipping with the game, so it should be really easy for people to make their own mods.

There is another project that remakes MoM with a multiplayer implementation here. Unlike the Unity clone, it actually looks like MoM.

Incidentally, both projects are still being actively developed.

 

[Blake00]

Infinitron hasn't got to this yet but I thought I'd better post about their latest 9th dev diary as it has a application link for people to apply to be involved in beta testing! So if there's any lurking MoM fans here who want in on that, go apply now!

Ninth Dev diary:
http://muhagames.com/master-of-magic-dev-diary-9/

 

[Galdred]

Caster of magic is both incredibly well balanced, and has very good ai. The good ai is essential to the enjoyment of the game (imo).

Based on how this usually goes I have my doubts that they will match either.

Also Thea was fucking shit

I liked Thea!
As for CoM, are the "windows" version and the DLC one really different? Does the windows version offer anything more than not having to run on Dosbox?

'slitherine' (and matrix) don't really make games themselves, they support games and support a bunch of developers who make games that run from very low quality phone ports to grognard simulation type wargames such as War in the East, War in the Pacific, or the just released Campaign Series Vietnam , to high quality simulations like Distant Worlds 2-- or even half broken would be masterpieces (but perhaps impossible to actually make into a workable computer game with an actual working AI) like World in Flames. So it really just depends.

Let's derail this even further!
Did you play their CWif? I loved the tabletop version, but I am not sure I will be able to play without AI (and how much better than the Vassal implementation is it for MP?).

 

[Lacrymas]

I applied for the beta, we'll see where that goes.

 

[DakaSha]

Caster of magic is both incredibly well balanced, and has very good ai. The good ai is essential to the enjoyment of the game (imo).

Based on how this usually goes I have my doubts that they will match either.

Also Thea was fucking shit

I liked Thea!
As for CoM, are the "windows" version and the DLC one really different? Does the windows version offer anything more than not having to run on Dosbox?

'slitherine' (and matrix) don't really make games themselves, they support games and support a bunch of developers who make games that run from very low quality phone ports to grognard simulation type wargames such as War in the East, War in the Pacific, or the just released Campaign Series Vietnam , to high quality simulations like Distant Worlds 2-- or even half broken would be masterpieces (but perhaps impossible to actually make into a workable computer game with an actual working AI) like World in Flames. So it really just depends.

Let's derail this even further!
Did you play their CWif? I loved the tabletop version, but I am not sure I will be able to play without AI (and how much better than the Vassal implementation is it for MP?).

Yes the windows version offers a fair amount and is worth it.

 

[holla_cabezas_de_mierda]

Caster of magic is both incredibly well balanced, and has very good ai. The good ai is essential to the enjoyment of the game (imo).

Based on how this usually goes I have my doubts that they will match either.

Also Thea was fucking shit

I liked Thea!
As for CoM, are the "windows" version and the DLC one really different? Does the windows version offer anything more than not having to run on Dosbox?

'slitherine' (and matrix) don't really make games themselves, they support games and support a bunch of developers who make games that run from very low quality phone ports to grognard simulation type wargames such as War in the East, War in the Pacific, or the just released Campaign Series Vietnam , to high quality simulations like Distant Worlds 2-- or even half broken would be masterpieces (but perhaps impossible to actually make into a workable computer game with an actual working AI) like World in Flames. So it really just depends.

Let's derail this even further!
Did you play their CWif? I loved the tabletop version, but I am not sure I will be able to play without AI (and how much better than the Vassal implementation is it for MP?).

I own the Matrix Version of World In Flames since it first came out, but have not actually played it in many years now--mostly I bought it hoping some day it would have an AI since the designer said he would eventually implement one.

I had not checked the forum in a number of years until a few weeks ago and was sort of surprised to see that the programmer of the game has not actually abandoned it and is very active and still is planning to make an AI. In fact he has since about October of last year begun actually programming the computer AI and people are testing it.

Apparently the programmers main reason for taking on the project nearly 20 years ago was because he is very into creating AI's, and to him this was a dream project to create an AI for WiF, and he seemingly still plans to do so. He is very active still. My main concern is not so much he won't keep work on it, because he seems to constantly be working on the game and updating it, but that he will literally die before he finishes it..lol..

As far as comparing it to Vassal the computer makes sure you follow all the rules (pretty much), so it is better than Vassal in that way. It is better and more fleshed out than Vassal for sure, although I have seen people say they have issues sometimes trying to play email games, but not sure what exactly, but it seems doable. The game is sort of interesting even for the encyclopedia information written up about each (or many) game pieces. Fans contributed by writing up little histories and backgrounds to almost every unit in the game that appear when you click on the unit and look under its information tab. It also comes with (or used to at least) 2 300 page Hardcover full color, full sized rule books. Never seen anything like it in a game. They are large, like coffee table books basically, and fully colorized. Its sort of insane.

Its hard to believe a single guy programmed the entire game....it has 83 optional rules you can turn off and on, lol...he has to work that into the AI some how..lol..

 

[Blake00]

As for CoM, are the "windows" version and the DLC one really different? Does the windows version offer anything more than not having to run on Dosbox?

Yes the windows version offers a fair amount and is worth it.

Yup CoM2Win has got a long list of features that the original CoM didn't have do to being a rebuild free from the chains of the original engine hacking limitations. The biggest and best feature IMO is breaking the originals 5 player limit, now you can have all 14 Wizards in one game going at it. It's also hugely configurable with heaps of game start options and if they're not enough there's also config text files that can be modified (eg people massively upping treasure guardian pools), so naturally that's already lead to some fan mods being made for it such as the Warlords mod.

.