Editorial Matt Barton on the state of today's CRPGs

[Grunker]

I don't think anyone who watched at least a few of his videos should find the above surprising. He's not doing a good job at hiding the fact that he is just another guy who deems isometric games made around year 2000 (BG, Fallout etc) truest, bestest crpgs ever and a paradigm of how crpgs should be made. I always felt that he plays and covers other crpgs just for the street cred and in fact doesn't like them much or at all.

Actually, Matt kind of hated the IE games due to their being real time. I think he's a Gold Boxer.

He strikes me as a primary Ultima-guy, though I think the Gold Box games are definetely closer to his heart than the IE games.

 

[Jaesun]

Matt Barton ‏@mattbarton
Nice review of one of my all-time favorite CRPGs. http://www.revelationz.net/index.asp?ID=4130

He is a huge fan of the Gold Box games and Might and Magic VI.

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

I don't think anyone who watched at least a few of his videos should find the above surprising. He's not doing a good job at hiding the fact that he is just another guy who deems isometric games made around year 2000 (BG, Fallout etc) truest, bestest crpgs ever and a paradigm of how crpgs should be made. I always felt that he plays and covers other crpgs just for the street cred and in fact doesn't like them much or at all.

Actually, Matt kind of hated the IE games due to their being real time. I think he's a Gold Boxer.

He strikes me as a primary Ultima-guy, though I think the Gold Box games are definetely closer to his heart than the IE games.

His top ten best crpgs blog entry contained Fallout, BG2, PST and... :drums: ...KOTOR. There was not a single Ultima game there afair and only one Gold Box game.

 

[Infinitron]

His top ten best crpgs blog entry contained Fallout, BG2, PST and... :drums: ...KOTOR. There was not a single Ultima game there afair and only one Gold Box game.

I think he's lying. The man had a podcast where he had very harsh words for RTwP games. I'll find the link later.

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

His top ten best crpgs blog entry contained Fallout, BG2, PST and... :drums: ...KOTOR. There was not a single Ultima game there afair and only one Gold Box game.

I think he's lying. The man had a podcast where he had very harsh words for RTwP games. I'll find the link later.

Well, that's the point. He's denying himself and is getting mixed up in his confessions which shows that he is, at least to some degree, a bullshitter.

His top ten is dominated by iso crpgs from around 2000 like with many other "true crpg bros", but of course he'll put games like M&M VI or even a rl game like Nethack (of course it's one of the better known ones purely by accident) there to show that he has all the "hardcore" angles well covered. Then, in one of his opinionated pieces, he'll call M&M VI one of the harbingers of the decline In another piece he'll say that rtwp sucks cause true crpg bros like tb combat, but right after finishing the article he'll get back to the 7th replay of that awesome game called KOTOR.

 

[Roguey]

While he definitely exaggerates things (i.e. first-person = Doom) there's no question that RPGs have less in common, mechanically speaking, with their forefathers than the newest shooters clogging store shelves. By and large this is not because it makes the games better, more immersive, opens new gameplay opportunities, whatever, but because it takes on the likeness of other more successful games in an attempt to attract that audience. While from a business perspective, that's a good move, it's only in recent years we've seen developers really begin to realize that RPG fans don't give two shits about having incredible graphics and flashy, "visceral" action so long as the underlying gameplay is good.

If you are making RPGs then you are making games, by default, for a minority of nerds. There's no need to be ashamed of that and delude yourself into thinking that you need to sell 5+ million copies to be successful, or that you need the big publishers to be competitive.

Skyrim: Over 10 million in sales in December (making it more successful than a lot of those "more successful games"), and now it's a year later and the MSRP is still $60 in a lot of stores (most games would be marked down to $20-30 by now due to lowered demand).

"It's just business" is also too cynical for me. I'm sure that's true in some cases, but I do believe some developers want to make action games with the aspects they like from RPGs (defining your personality, reactive worlds, customization etc).

Actually, Matt kind of hated the IE games due to their being real time. I think he's a Gold Boxer.

And yet in this article he praises the "true crpg experience" of Ultima 7 even though it had full realtime combat that was significantly worse than most IE games. What a charlatan, I think 1eyedking was right about his being a poseur.

 

[nihil]

I don't want you to make me feel like a real man. I want you to let me be one.

Matt Barton wins.

 

[Moribund]

His top ten best crpgs blog entry contained Fallout, BG2, PST and... :drums: ...KOTOR. There was not a single Ultima game there afair and only one Gold Box game.

I think he's lying. The man had a podcast where he had very harsh words for RTwP games. I'll find the link later.

Well, that's the point. He's denying himself and is getting mixed up in his confessions which shows that he is, at least to some degree, a bullshitter.

His top ten is dominated by iso crpgs from around 2000 like with many other "true crpg bros", but of course he'll put games like M&M VI or even a rl game like Nethack (of course it's one of the better known ones purely by accident) there to show that he has all the "hardcore" angles well covered. Then, in one of his opinionated pieces, he'll call M&M VI one of the harbingers of the decline In another piece he'll say that rtwp sucks cause true crpg bros like tb combat, but right after finishing the article he'll get back to the 7th replay of that awesome game called KOTOR.

Oh, grow up. I don't like RTWP either but there's still a few I like, such as BG II. They'd just be much better without that nonsense.

 

[Luzur]

If you are making RPGs then you are making games, by default, for a minority of nerds.

NUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUURDS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

CRPGs are not the genre of the elite anymore. This is the genre of the spoiled rotten brat.

Yeah, I remember the titanic intelligence required to play Fallout and other cRPGs of late 90s. I remember how elite I felt when I got through the advanced character creation and how elite I felt when I was hitting girls in the groin with cattle prod.

i think he means the older 80´s RPG's.

 

[Infinitron]

His top ten best crpgs blog entry contained Fallout, BG2, PST and... :drums: ...KOTOR. There was not a single Ultima game there afair and only one Gold Box game.

I think he's lying. The man had a podcast where he had very harsh words for RTwP games. I'll find the link later.

http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/inde...it-matt-barton-rages-about-modern-rpgs.64526/

These niche YouTube videogame commentators do this all the time.

They will claim to enjoy a game in their videos, supposedly to gain subscribers and keep a good face. And then in another area where they give comments, they will say they didn't actually like the game.

People keep so many faces, that they reserve for so many different groups of people. Even on the internet.

 

[Luzur]

Why doesn't RPG Codex make its own Youtube channel? Bring older RPGs to a new generation, increase the site's web presence, talk about games or mechanics or ideas nobody else has talked about, raise the level of dialogue, attract new people to the site. A series that explores the history of RPGs in depth could be interesting if presented well.

That sounds suspiciously like something that would involve effort.

it would only end up as weekly 15 min rant by Prosper cut short with screens from old games and his projects.

 

[Infinitron]

I can't see the Codex making serious videos with somebody actually speaking in them, but I could see it making something like this:


ie, "Best Thread Ever: Video Edition".

Or maybe a hardcore RPG version of BRO TEAM.

 

[felipepepe]

Or maybe a hardcore RPG version of BRO TEAM.

Only if we get someone like Cleve or Awor to do it.

 

[eric__s]

Why do you guys care what Internet Man #134559 says about RPGs? Heads up guys, dorito_the_hedgehog posted a diatribe about strafing in RPGs on www.fragglerock.info. If I cared about Matt Barton's heavy handed reviews and opinions, I'd read his site and watch his videos.

Why doesn't RPG Codex make its own Youtube channel? Bring older RPGs to a new generation, increase the site's web presence, talk about games or mechanics or ideas nobody else has talked about, raise the level of dialogue, attract new people to the site. A series that explores the history of RPGs in depth could be interesting if presented well.

Yeah, and who would make contant for the Codex channel? You? At least Matt is trying his best to show us the great games of the past, and presenteng good interviews.

Sure, I could do it. Anyone who wants to be involved could do it. Consider the wealth of knowledge and insight the people on this site collectively have about RPGs. I'd bet that the people on RPG Codex have cumulatively played 95% of all RPGs. What if we gave sea a video platform for talking about RPG design, or CrookedBee to talk about trends of European RPGs, or Andhaira to talk about the RPG subculture in Pakistan (I bet that would be interesting) or Jaesun to do a retrospective on Goldbox mods? All of these are things we have the means to do, would connect RPG Codex to a larger audience, would raise the level of dialogue and would be significant to people who care about the genre. Who knows, we might even let you in on it Matt.

Instead of reviewing games or giving them a value judgment, I think a format where we present them more as cultural artifacts or links on an evolutionary chain would be smarter. There are enough mouthbreathers out there wheezing about Dragon Age is shit (or good) - what if we talk about the context of Dragon Age within the history of CRPGs? Reviews are a dime a dozen, meaningful information and analysis is pretty rare. We've definitely got a user base capable of this.

Why doesn't RPG Codex make its own Youtube channel? Bring older RPGs to a new generation, increase the site's web presence, talk about games or mechanics or ideas nobody else has talked about, raise the level of dialogue, attract new people to the site. A series that explores the history of RPGs in depth could be interesting if presented well.

That sounds suspiciously like something that would involve effort.

it would only end up as weekly 15 min rant by Prosper cut short with screens from old games and his projects.

This is an even better idea.

 

[Awor Szurkrarz]

How many people do you think could write as good as Mr Matt did, but in favor of dumbfuck gonorrhea disease shooters? A human being can only like dumbfuck xbawks games from a position of ignorance and stupidity. Asking a shooter gamer why he likes shootan games is like asking an illiterate poor person in the Third world why he doesn't like reading.

No.

 

[taxalot]

Apparently :
Wasting time on computer playing a Real Time Game = retarded
Wasting time on computer playing a First Person game = retarded
Wasting time playing a turn based third person = being part of the intellectual elite.

 

[J_C]

Why do you guys care what Internet Man #134559 says about RPGs? Heads up guys, dorito_the_hedgehog posted a diatribe about strafing in RPGs on www.fragglerock.info. If I cared about Matt Barton's heavy handed reviews and opinions, I'd read his site and watch his videos.

Why doesn't RPG Codex make its own Youtube channel? Bring older RPGs to a new generation, increase the site's web presence, talk about games or mechanics or ideas nobody else has talked about, raise the level of dialogue, attract new people to the site. A series that explores the history of RPGs in depth could be interesting if presented well.

Yeah, and who would make contant for the Codex channel? You? At least Matt is trying his best to show us the great games of the past, and presenteng good interviews.

Sure, I could do it. Anyone who wants to be involved could do it. Consider the wealth of knowledge and insight the people on this site collectively have about RPGs. I'd bet that the people on RPG Codex have cumulatively played 95% of all RPGs. What if we gave sea a video platform for talking about RPG design, or CrookedBee to talk about trends of European RPGs, or Andhaira to talk about the RPG subculture in Pakistan (I bet that would be interesting) or Jaesun to do a retrospective on Goldbox mods? All of these are things we have the means to do, would connect RPG Codex to a larger audience, would raise the level of dialogue and would be significant to people who care about the genre. Who knows, we might even let you in on it Matt.

Instead of reviewing games or giving them a value judgment, I think a format where we present them more as cultural artifacts or links on an evolutionary chain would be smarter. There are enough mouthbreathers out there wheezing about Dragon Age is shit (or good) - what if we talk about the context of Dragon Age within the history of CRPGs? Reviews are a dime a dozen, meaningful information and analysis is pretty rare. We've definitely got a user base capable of this.

You should ask Sea, CrookedBee, Andhaira and the others if they would do this kind of stuff before you volunteer in their names. And even if they do, it is not sure if they can produce entertaining, yet clever episodes. Don't get me wrong, they have the knowledge, but making good shows need more.

 

[eric__s]

Haha, yeah, I wasn't volunteering them, just using them as examples of people who might have something unique to contribute. I imagine they do have solid writing abilities because I'm pretty sure most have written articles before, but even if they don't have the abilities to put a video or article together, I do. I imagine this as a collaborative project with an editorial process that would involve people who might not even contribute written content. The point is that we've got the collective abilities to put up professional videos about RPGs and the sense to not put up videos like these.

 

[mediocrepoet]

Or maybe a hardcore RPG version of BRO TEAM.

That could be awesome. I think for it to be like BRO TEAM it'd have to be looking at modern "RPGs" not hardcore ones, though. Half the time they're just yelling about how gay things are, etc. Actually, it'd probably just sound like someone voice acting one of Skyway's posts.

 

[l3loodAngel]

I expect there are plenty of people who'd be happy to continue playing (and more importantly buying) shooters for the rest of their lives.

I think that most of the people grow out of the genre. I started with shooters, sports and racing games. Now it's almost strictly RPGs and strategy for me. So it's actually became something like teen pop. The most profitable industry as parents pay for goods.

I'd love to have a Gordon Ramsey like character in the party (or perhaps as a king) that would constantly berate and make the player feel like a nob whenever they do anything stupid or incompetent.

Here's an idea for those who love stories in games so much. Watch a great movie, like Seven Samurai, with a game controller in your hand. Keep pressing buttons and moving your thumbs about during the movie. I promise you will enjoy the characters and story in this game a lot more than Skyrim.

CRPGs are not the genre of the elite anymore. This is the genre of the spoiled rotten brat.

But can we call the new releases CRPGs?

 

[Moribund]

I can't see the Codex making serious videos with somebody actually speaking in them, but I could see it making something like this:


ie, "Best Thread Ever: Video Edition".

Or maybe a hardcore RPG version of BRO TEAM.

Codexers are much too rich and successful to waste their time on such inanity. Or computer illiterate like me

 

[taxalot]

I would love Codex videos. Especially LPs with comments and voiceover.

 

[Cowboy Moment]

Why do you guys care what Internet Man #134559 says about RPGs? Heads up guys, dorito_the_hedgehog posted a diatribe about strafing in RPGs on www.fragglerock.info. If I cared about Matt Barton's heavy handed reviews and opinions, I'd read his site and watch his videos.

Why doesn't RPG Codex make its own Youtube channel? Bring older RPGs to a new generation, increase the site's web presence, talk about games or mechanics or ideas nobody else has talked about, raise the level of dialogue, attract new people to the site. A series that explores the history of RPGs in depth could be interesting if presented well.

Yeah, and who would make contant for the Codex channel? You? At least Matt is trying his best to show us the great games of the past, and presenteng good interviews.

Sure, I could do it. Anyone who wants to be involved could do it. Consider the wealth of knowledge and insight the people on this site collectively have about RPGs. I'd bet that the people on RPG Codex have cumulatively played 95% of all RPGs. What if we gave sea a video platform for talking about RPG design, or CrookedBee to talk about trends of European RPGs, or Andhaira to talk about the RPG subculture in Pakistan (I bet that would be interesting) or Jaesun to do a retrospective on Goldbox mods? All of these are things we have the means to do, would connect RPG Codex to a larger audience, would raise the level of dialogue and would be significant to people who care about the genre. Who knows, we might even let you in on it Matt.

Instead of reviewing games or giving them a value judgment, I think a format where we present them more as cultural artifacts or links on an evolutionary chain would be smarter. There are enough mouthbreathers out there wheezing about Dragon Age is shit (or good) - what if we talk about the context of Dragon Age within the history of CRPGs? Reviews are a dime a dozen, meaningful information and analysis is pretty rare. We've definitely got a user base capable of this.

Why doesn't RPG Codex make its own Youtube channel? Bring older RPGs to a new generation, increase the site's web presence, talk about games or mechanics or ideas nobody else has talked about, raise the level of dialogue, attract new people to the site. A series that explores the history of RPGs in depth could be interesting if presented well.

That sounds suspiciously like something that would involve effort.

it would only end up as weekly 15 min rant by Prosper cut short with screens from old games and his projects.

This is an even better idea.

The question, my brother, is not whether we are capable of doing these things. The question is whether we actually want to "connect RPG Codex to a larger audience". The Codex is what it is. It does not scale to your level, does not care about formatting its editorials, does not care about anyone's feelings, and redirects users to other RPG sites instead of banning them. The idea of attempting to raise awareness of the rich history of cRPGs is commendable, and we do have the collective knowledge needed to do that - I'm simply not sure whether using the Codex "brand" as a platform for this is such a good idea.

Because honestly, it should be a series of editorials instead of youtube videos, which are infotainment at best. Let's face it, we don't want the type of user who would watch a video, but doesn't have the attention span to read something like grotsnik's recent article. Even if they like the video, what's the point? If there's anything that unites all the games lauded at the Codex, it's the entry barrier - no matter the genre, they require the player to think, to make an effort , to give something of himself before they can truly experience the game. The opposite, after all, is what we hate - the idea that a game is a theme park ride, force fed to the player with minimal interaction and no difficulty to speak of.

That said, you're welcome to have a go at it.

 

[Metro]

No reason a video has to be 'infotainment' -- I've seen plenty of good reviews/commentaries that used the medium of video to illustrate the criticisms they make.

 

[Cowboy Moment]

Let's be honest about this, Metro, the only reason to replace text with videos in this context, is to make the whole thing more accessible to retards. Wanting to have everything in video form is just another symptom of the decline, as are all those wretched youtube celebrities this process has spawned.

Also, from a purely practical perspective, text is a lot easier to produce, and doesn't compromise a person's anonymity (remember the Dicksmoker incident?).