Droog White Smile said:
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Editorial Memories of Oblivion
- Thread starter VentilatorOfDoom
- Start date
Silellak
Cipher
What is it then, exactly? And how is it good at being that?Droog White Smile said:
Droog White Smile said:
Okay.
I'm currently playing Oblivion with mods. It's fun, but it's obviously lacking in some compartments. NPC AI is retarded and not half as awesome as Gothic 2's schedules. Combat isn't half as fun as Gothic 2 or Risen. Writing is bad, characters are bland. Exploration is ruined by level scaling (yes, I improved that with mods, but since we're talking about the game itself in its original state, this is a huge flaw). Being able to view far away land is cool, but (without mods) it's severely lacking since you can't see buildings, which suddenly pop up into view when you get near.
Now, the Gothic series was always awesome in combat and exploration aspects. Risen is similar. Those games tempt me to go into every corner, because it's filled with danger and you might find enemies that can kill you in a few hits if you don't take care. The combat system is vastly superior to Oblivion in *all* of the Gothic games, and Risen has one of the best action RPG combat systems I've yet seen. The story is nothing special, but the cities are all awesomely designed, NPC schedules are done well (yes, they're scripted while OB has an AI, but the scripting of Gothic/Risen works much better than the retarded Oblivion AI), and the writing is solid with some characters even having *gasp* character.
And I'm not even mentioning that the Gothics have some C&C and non-linear mainquests, unlike Oblivion.
Is that enough of an opinion or am I still following the hivemind because it's cool to like Gothic cuz they're not mainstream?
I was tempted to give you 0/10 but I guess I'll give you 1 because you show some determination.
I'm bored so I jumped on Drog's trollbait. Got nothing better to do.
It wasn't aimed at you.
Droog White Smile
Educated
A mindless timesink.Silellak said:
Anyway, regarding Oblivion vs Gothic, at least in Oblivion you can actually make your own character (and it has more character options (not talking about gender/appearance)). It's hard for me to enjoy an RPG where I can't make my own character(s). Also much more content.
Droog White Smile
Educated
I'd also like to point out that I don't have a problem with Oblivion being "dumb" or shallow. Not every RPG should be made for philosophy majors and raptors. It's entertainment for Christ's sake.
Yeesh
Magister
Don't tell anybody, but I totally played Oblivion too, and I always thought I'd go back and play it again sometime with a mod like OOO. But recently I started playing Mount and Blade, and I'm wondering if I'll ever be able to go back to Oblivion's sad, sad implementation of first-person combat now that I've tasted the fruit of awesomeness.JarlFrank said:
You've written an awful lot of negatives there, but I assume you're at least halfway enjoying the game? Or no it just sucks?
Droog White Smile said:
What if the gameplay is shallow, too? Shallow as in, gets boring quickly (because of retarded design decisions like level scaling of EVERYTHING)?
Gothic has more fun gameplay than Oblivion. Neither of the games are deep, story-wise, but Gothic is more coherent and more entertaining.
Yeesh said:
The mods make it enjoyable because they fix the horrid exploration.
But I'd never play vanilla Oblivion again, that one is just boring.
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Droog White Smile
Educated
Well, yes, the ridiculous level scaling (the game becomes MUCH HARDER as you level up) is Oblivion's biggest flaw.JarlFrank said:
There are mods that change it, though.
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Some people really can not stand mods. Even the best mod is always worse than the original product in some way (in my limited experience).
Anyway, reading the original quote from the article I thought this was about Ultima 7. Remember, that game from 1992 that actually had working "Radiant AI"? People waking up, doing their jobs, relaxing in the tavern and going to bed somewhere else cheating on their wife? Great game.
Anyway, reading the original quote from the article I thought this was about Ultima 7. Remember, that game from 1992 that actually had working "Radiant AI"? People waking up, doing their jobs, relaxing in the tavern and going to bed somewhere else cheating on their wife? Great game.
Silellak
Cipher
Yeah, the most annoying thing for me about Oblivion is that it tried to do everything Ultima VII - an almost-15-year-old game at that point - did, yet somehow managed to do it all worse. I swear, it's like the gaming media are actively trying to erase the Ultima series from gaming history.Jasede said:
Also, Oblivion never got hard, even at higher levels. The level scaling ensured the game was always a cake walk no matter where you went or what level you were.
Serious_Business
Best Poster on the Codex
Jasede said:
You need to get over your pathologic fear of mods. Some of them are p. good. I guess you don't play Thief so much but who wouldn't want to play the awesome fan missions? I know they're not technically mods, but I'm using this as an example of good amateur production. In a shit game like Morrowind I can't imagine why mods would be worse than the original product. Who the fuck likes this game
Also :
YEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
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I don't really care for the Thief fan missions and I tried a bunch of top-rated ones; even the ones Terry Pratchett himself expressed a liking for back when Through the Looking Glass wasn't quite as old as it is now, and they always, always come off as somewhat amateurish. It's not a fear of mods as much as it is a dislike for the disparities between mods and the original product. If there were mods that do not alter the mood, flair and style of the original even by a single iota, that'd be fine. But they do not exist. Even cosmetic mods tend to try to enter the creator's unique "vision", which just never meshes too well with what is already there.
Think of the original game as a human body; now think of a mod as either a replacement of one of its parts, or expansion of it. Maybe now you can see that unless the mod (part) is 99.9% like the original, there will be a disparity, an uncanny sense of incongruency.
I played Morrowind a whole lot with many mods, and the more I played it the less mods I used... now if I played it I wouldn't use any. The mechanics changes almost always sacrifice more than is gained, the graphical improvements don't mesh with what wasn't improved or depart from the original style, even the high-res textures look out of place.
Long story short, while I can't get over my irrational "fear" of mods, I probably should stop mentioning it every time I get an opportunity, I suppose.
Think of the original game as a human body; now think of a mod as either a replacement of one of its parts, or expansion of it. Maybe now you can see that unless the mod (part) is 99.9% like the original, there will be a disparity, an uncanny sense of incongruency.
I played Morrowind a whole lot with many mods, and the more I played it the less mods I used... now if I played it I wouldn't use any. The mechanics changes almost always sacrifice more than is gained, the graphical improvements don't mesh with what wasn't improved or depart from the original style, even the high-res textures look out of place.
Long story short, while I can't get over my irrational "fear" of mods, I probably should stop mentioning it every time I get an opportunity, I suppose.
Clockwork Knight
Arcane
Silellak said:
Drog said:
My opinion is a mix of yours - the game does get harder as you level, but as long as you don't make a really shitty character who cant keep up with the NPCs, you won't have problems.
Paula Tormeson IV
Scholar
I pretty much agree with this.Jasede said:
Starting Oblivion in a cave as a homeless person was great (that was a good little mod). Getting a note from my NPC friend from his cabin was cool. The Gates to Aesgaard (episode 1) began as awesome, much better than anything in the vanilla. Then it took all the fun out of starting the game as a homeless person by loading my character with silver and mithril equipment, lots of different high-level potions and ingredients, and swords of fire and ice, and weapons even more powerful than that, not to mention forcing him into many compulsory fights that raised my character's skill levels rather pointlessly and, after I had completed the episode, upon reflection made me feel like I had cheated. (The optional vanilla quests seem more economical in that respect, also giving more opportunity for stealth.)
Of course, one has to play mods like this as though one were playing a different game. Such mods are actually the only tolerable type in games that I have fond memories of, such as NWN, especially HotU, because similarity of atmosphere or soundtrack spoils the fond memories of the original (contrary to rumors, NWN mods that use the original soundtrack never reach the level of the original games, never will). (Gates to Aesgaard was very different from the vanilla Oblivion. A short psychological horror game best played without music.)
Mods that make only subtle changes are of course problematic, because they can't easily be considered a different game. Usually they only work if the original has a lot of room for obvious improvement that's easy and straightforward to implement. Francesco was successful in this. His "leveled creatures & items" etc. mods are subtle improvements on the original. Anything beyond that becomes problematic, with the popular Oscuro's Oblivion Overhaul placing high-level monsters here and there, even near the imperial city: there are no high level areas, and there won't be, since the original game world was built in such a way as to not accommodate such area division. The overhaul would truly have to be complete, with the main-quest line scrapped, etc., for there to be such an area division. That would be far from subtle, and a different game to such an extent that it would merit an official publication under a new name.
The weather and sky improvement mods (they seem to go hand in hand) make parts of the game so pretty that the other parts can't compete, creating incongruity.
The Unique Landscapes mod-pack is beautiful work though, and works because the original game world is so flat. Combined with Better Cities, it won't even create incongruity. Alas, Better Cities requires lvl 50 hardware.
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