Modern air combat flight sims?

[Burning Bridges]

Irresponsible American pilot ignores traffic controllers at Las Vegas Airport, makes landing without clearance, international scandal!!

 

[unfairlight]

the combined DLCs are ~ 1,600 Euro and no one needs or has the time to fly all those aircraft with with all the complexity.

I personally waited for sales and spent maybe 200 Euro for 7 planes and 2 maps, which is absolutely ok for the simulation I got.

If you want to play War Thunder then go play War Thunder.

This isn't a DCS World thread, I don't know why you assumed I was talking about it. That screencap was from MS FSX Steam Version. My annoyance was more about how much the DLC in almost every single simulator game costs.

 

[Burning Bridges]

ah ok. sorry for misquoting then. But nonetheless the answer is that these DLCs are usually created by 3rd party developers so the only question is to have them or not to have them but not to get them for free. Instead of making statements based on the cost of all DLCs in a flight sim I would add up the total sum of Terabytes, and you should see that it's not even physically possible to have all of them. It's only necessary to have scenery and planes that you really know, no one needs 100s of airplanes or has the time to fly them.

There is no need to think maximalist when you can only fly 1 plane at a time. If you go to a trouser shop it's usually enough you get one or two pairs, not complain that the complete shop inventory would cost in excess of 100,000$. the question is more about choice and people competing over the best addon. I see it like this, if I am willing to spend 20, 50 or even 100$ for a simulation module I certainly want to have a very particular one, and that's why there are so many. And that's a good thing in those simulations. Otherwise you can just stick with the basic version which usually have global scenery and some well supported planes. Most people get eternally stuck there anyway so it's better to just start somewhere before thinking about what it could cost you.

 

[Doctor Sbaitso]

Simmers are a special and small niche who are generally willing to pay for high quality add-ons. Good thing too becauase making simulations or modules demanding customers will approve of is labour intensive and wouldn't be feasible as a profit business if not for high costs

 

[Burning Bridges]

Huge DCS sale is going to be over in some hours so I have made last minute decisions.
Yak-52 is already a trusty plane to me and I'm totally happy with what I got for 20$. L-39 Kursant campaign was a waste of money because it is more of a "examination" than a training course but that doesn't matter now.

I also got the Mig-29 with brand new Professional Flight Model (PFM) and must say I am happy. In spite of PFM it's much easier to fly than my older birds and I bring her down on the runway with relatively little problem. Which is to say the modern popamole planes are actually easiest to start and land.

They also updated the cockpit from ancient, 2000ish Lomac standard to something close to a full clickable 3d cockpits and I must say, quite good for a for 7.50$ plane. Of course you cannot click the switches but visually it is not much behind the full models now.

What finally made my decision is that as for modern Russian jets this is all we will get for a long time. ED is restricted from full fidelity simulation of modern Russian planes and this is the compromise.

As it seems they have no such restrictions on American planes.

 

[unfairlight]

Anyone got a decent stick recommendation? I've been wanting to fly in a variety of games. I've been eyeing the Logitech Extreme 3D Pro. It's quite popular and allegedly quite good.

 

[J_C]

Anyone got a decent stick recommendation? I've been wanting to fly in a variety of games. I've been eyeing the Logitech Extreme 3D Pro. It's quite popular and allegedly quite good.

I have heard good things about that Logitech stick, so if you want a simpler joystick, go get that one. However, if you want to fly complex planes, it might have too few buttons and axis, and I'd go with a HOTAS.

I recommended the Thrustmaster T 16000M FCS in another thread as an entry level HOTAS, obviously it is a bit more expensive than a simple joystick (still cheaper than the high level HOTAS stuff).

Another simpler stick which I use, and have been using for almost a decade is the Saiter Cyborg EVO. It might look too flashy, but it is built like a tank. Seriously, 10 years in use, and it still works perfectly.

 

[unfairlight]

That Saitek stick doesn't appear to be sold new anywhere and that Thrustmaster is over twice the price. Think I'll get something basic for now and then buy a HOTAS at a later date if need be.

 

[Burning Bridges]

that Logitech stick looks absolute crap

 

[unfairlight]

But from everything I read it appears to be the only worthwhile stick for sub $50. I can also pay a little bit more and get the Thrustmaster t16000m without the throttle.

 

[J_C]

that Logitech stick looks absolute crap

It does, but I read that the build quaility is quite good.

 

[Burning Bridges]

The problem is "sub 50$". You can't get a decent stick for that price. I would double the budget and get a CH fighterstick USB, otherwise you will be throwing good money after bad.

 

[Burning Bridges]

that Logitech stick looks absolute crap

It does, but I read that the build quaility is quite good.

Depends what you mean with "quite good". Every second review complains that something on the stick breaks after a couple of months, and that there is atrocious play around the center requiring deadzones. The thing looks more like what a 8 year old finds under the Christmas tree than what a grown man would buy for himself after

codex inquiry.

As to your Saitek Cyborg EVO, I held that a few times in shops and it felt very solid. Too bad that it isn't produced anymore.

 

[J_C]

that Logitech stick looks absolute crap

It does, but I read that the build quaility is quite good.

Depends what you mean with "quite good". Every second review complains that something on the stick breaks after a couple of months, and that there is atrocious play around the center requiring deadzones. The thing looks more like what a 8 year old finds under the Christmas tree than what a grown man would buy for himself after

codex inquiry.

I have read good things about it nonetheless. Looking at the amazon reviews, it has solid 4 and 5 star ratings. Also, there is a youtuber who is a big simmer, and I can usually depend on his opinion. And hey, it's 50 bucks, what can we expect for that. :D

 

[Burning Bridges]

I don't know J_C but imo Ralfi is somewhat losing it at the end when he says he owns all those sticks but is now going back to order the 50$ one. Sounds more like jadedness to me. It does not prove that the stick is bad, but I dont even see him owning it, he just has it on his screen and is pissed off by small problems with his Thrustmaster (the new Logitech-Saiteks are crap though and he should have never bought one).

I looked at reviews at German amazon and there are a lot of positive reviews by people who apparently never owned a joystick before, and who wrote day 1 reviews = useless. Then you have 1/4 reviews that say that something on the stick broke after 1/4 year or that it lost precision (whatever they mean with that) and 1/4 who say there is a very big deadzone where the stick does not measure input at all (which is imo sloppy construction and makes precision flying next to impossible).

Anyway if someone wants to try those sticks I would not discourage them (the TM 16000 is apparently also quite good), but unless you ever owned a good stick you might be fooling yourself. Cheap plastic construction with potentiometers is not state of the art, it is only something for kids who cannot afford the 200-300 $ that a proper setup costs.

Everyone can try but let me say that in my experience a good flightstick holds at least 15 years. CH even last longer than you will live, they are completely unbreakable devices designed as industry controllers (I still have CH rudder pedals which I bought in 1997 and they still look like new, they will probably hold another 150 years). Even if they are from plastic it's ballistic grade that they even make pistols from these days. Unless you don't repeatedly drop a house on them, they won't break ever (although they are still using potentiometers so that is not their strength either).

I actually think CH will go out of business because of this, like the German washing machines of Miele they made products that simply last too long, no one buys from them twice.

 

[Burning Bridges]

surprising is that I am enjoying the MiG-29 so much. I even got it for a sale price of just 7.50$ this plane was a steal for me. Just as much fun as planes with clickable cockpits (I have clicked on them so much that it got old)

Since the very recent update practically everything on the plane has been updatest to the latest level:

new professional flight model (PFM)
new 6DOF cockpit
new sounds
a new 3d model that is arguable better than 5x more expensive planes
a few new bugs

the only exception is the lack of a clickable cockpit which will not be done for many years as well as
realistic systems modelling - which would drive the price up 5-10 times

it's ofc not the most realistic and the interaction is greatly simplified but as a beginners plane this is almost perfect.

the MiG is btw the fastest accelerating plane in the entire sim, when you fly WW2 planes for a while it's like getting into a formula 1 car. the speed needle literally jumps from 0-200 in 1/10s of seconds and a bit later you can theoretically go vertically up, it simply has to be experienced.

 

[Matador]

Noob to Flying sims here. I got hooked by DCS learning the free plane (SU-25T), I thought about it and decided to skip easier entry points like Flaming Cliffs 3, and I'm gonna go balls deep and buy the FA/18.

Quite daunting trying to learn this as a noob, but i think it's going to be a ton of fun.

A month ago went back to play Freespace 2, Tie fighter and other space sims, and now I find myself getting into hardcore flight simulators, never thought it would end this way . I also installed Falcon BMS, but I found it less appealing because of the terrain textures. It looks like a great sim though, maybe some day.

 

[J_C]

Noob to Flying sims here. I got hooked by DCS learning the free plane (SU-25T), I thought about it and decided to skip easier entry points like Flaming Cliffs 3, and I'm gonna go balls deep and buy the FA/18.

Quite daunting trying to learn this as a noob, but i think it's going to be a ton of fun.

A month ago went back to play Freespace 2, Tie fighter and other space sims, and now I find myself getting into hardcore flight simulators, never thought it would end this way . I also installed Falcon BMS, but I found it less appealing because of the terrain textures. It looks like a great sim though, maybe some day.

You really have some balls if you jumped into the F18 without trying some easier planes before. :D

 

[Burning Bridges]

Not necessarily. For me the first thing in DCS was learn to fly properly but he already did that with the Su 25T. If you can land a Su25 you probably have an easier time with the F-18, which has an advanced ILS etc.

The radar etc that I guess is very complex but I'm struggling with that in any plane. On the other hand once I learned how to use a particular rocket it's usually not that hard either.

There is also a lot that speaks for the F-18, it is made by ED (and not one of the 3rd parties). I have not heard of any weak points of the module (with most modules there is one), I think it isn't a bad choice as "first" or "only" plane, except it's expensive.

There is currently no trainer for the US side, if you still want one I would go to the Sabre. Otherwise the basic trainer is the Yak-52 and the LC-39 for jets.

I wouldn't look down on the modules from Flaming Cliffs 3 though, not after I have seen the MiG-29. I have already raked in much flight hours with it and learned more than with any other plane. And I just warn you again of the WW2 birds (with the exception of the Mustang) they are really a handful. I almost regret them, unless you are good with one of the jets it is too early. At least in my case it was.

 

[Burning Bridges]

Matador fyi, there have been sales for the F-18. Just recently: 60$ for the F-18 or $90 for the F-18 plus Persian Gulf terrain. Since the module was just released the sale prices will continue to go down (I would guess for the F-18 as low as 35$ because 50% seems to be EDs real pain barrier).

I also know that last year there was winter sale from 22 December - 3 January, so it's very likely we see something similar at the end of this year.

Otherwise it doesn't look like anything else will happen this year. The F-14 will probably not appear before February/March, and it is the only module that is currently in pre-release.

 

[Burning Bridges]

There are 2 terrains that could be released not too far in the future.

One is Syria, which apparently is only the mediterranean coast (and perhaps a little bit of Lebanon, Turkey and Israel). If this is like Normandy it will be 100 km around Al Hama with Aleppo and Homs at the fringe as a good will measure, and everything outside will be a moon landscape. I'm not excited.

Another is South Atlantic (Falklands), developed by one of the 3rd parties. There are already videos how it looks from the air



.. pretty boring actually :D at least they could model a huge area because there is nothing but water around, and airbases on the coast of Argentina are supposedly planned.

I also read that screenshots of Afghanistan and Straight of Dover have been spotted on screenshots, but no one knows anything.

 

[Matador]

Yes, I'm waiting for the winter sale to get the F18. In the meantime I will continue practicing with the SU-25T. It's a fun plane I think, more analogic with older technology than the american ones, that has its charm.

This is my Joystick. I'm thinking about upgrading to T.1600 with HOTAS in christmas. Do you see the upgrade as necessary?

https://www.amazon.es/Thrustmaster-...d=1544616459&sr=8-7&keywords=thrustmaster+ps3

Track IR is very expensive so I'm gonna pick this. I read that it works well and the price is 35-50 pounds.

https://trackhat.org/

 

[Burning Bridges]

I have no TrackIR. I can very well control the view with coolie hats on my flightstick and throttle.

The T.16000 has Hall Sensors so theoretically it is one of the best HOTAS you can get. The downside is that it looks like garbage and the buttons are not very good. But as long as it works, you should be very happy with it. But one day you may hear a crack and a small yielding under one of your fingers and you will remember what I said.

 

[Burning Bridges]

And as to the question "is it necessary"? I would go into the controller settings or Axis tune within DCS, move the axes and check if there is smooth movement, if there are sudden jumps, deadzones at the end or start etc.

As long as the movement is smooth and even there is not really a need for a new controller. i.e. a cheap controller with good potentiometers is better than an old, expensive one that jumps all over the place.

Rudder control via pedals is important during takeoff / landing but I guess you might get away with some simple rudder control on a joystick. The ones I have seen though were crap - like the rudder levers on the Saitek X45 - absolute crap.

Btw you can also build your own controllers and that's something I might do myself. At least I want to try a simple throttle with hall sensors and an USB controller, and if it works, my own HOTAS :D

 

[Matador]

My joystick has a ruddle axis, and a throttle slider, so It's not bad for a budget joystick I think, although I'm starting to crave for a good HOTAS, but I should not spend the amount of money the best ones cost.

Can't wait for the sale, in the meantime I'm reading the DCS F-18 manual.