Morrowind was massive decline and should be considered as such

[KateMicucci]

If you can use your imagination for silt strider and boat fade-to-blacks why is it so hard to imagine that a fast-travel guy in oblivion walked or cast recall? Is it autism?

 

[Robotigan]

Like... obvious beginner mistakes like "the biggest dungeon isn't used at a climactic moment but for some generic quest, while the most climactic quest is set in a small and boring dungeon" shouldn't happen.

But it more than likely will or something of the sort. It's very rare for a game for a game to not have any holes in its quest design or have a perfectly calibrated challenge curve. In particular, this is really common in many of Codex's favorite games have exactly these sorts or problems stemming from a rushed schedule toward the end of development. So if you ask me, more games should spend time playtesting and iterating on their levels instead of assuming they'll get everything right on the first attempt. I'll link to one of Bethesda's former level designers talking about their business process. It may not be sexy, but it's one of the most important aspects of project management and therefore game design. And it's a major reason why some devs grow to become industry giants while others juggle a bunch of cool ideas before failing out.

You overestimate the problems that come with the lack of quest markers. The amount of additional work is minimal, but the amount of gameplay fun destroyed by the existence of these handholding signposts is massive.

This is melodramatic. I've played both kinds of games. No quest markers works when the level design is either very linear or exceptionally well thought out. Otherwise searching for something can easily turn into a frustrating endeavor. What makes a challenge satisfying is when there's some sort of feedback mechanism so you know whether you're at least on the right track. This is really hard to do when guiding the player to a location. In the real world, when people are lost they'll seek out verification (which I'm going to guess many Morrowind players did by deferring to a walkthrough when they started to get frustrated). Without a feedback mechanism, players who take a wrong turn wind up searching an area exhaustively before realizing they made a mistake. Again, solvable through good level design but Morrowind frequently didn't do that and I'm skeptical a game of that scale could.

Morrowind also kind of worked against exploration in some ways. Relative directions means you have to remember exactly where you were when you got the quest (or write it down) encouraging you to complete quests as given instead of exploring around and doing things on your own time. This is a significant impediment given the design ethos Elder Scrolls strives for. Now you can resolve this if you mark on the map where the quest was given, but Morrowind didn't.

 

[KateMicucci]

So if you ask me, more games should spend time playtesting and iterating on their levels instead of assuming they'll get everything right on the first attempt. I'll link to one of Bethesda's former level designers talking about their business process. It may not be sexy, but it's one of the most important aspects of project management and therefore game design. And it's a major reason why some devs grow to become industry giants while others juggle a bunch of cool ideas before failing out.

Bethesda would benefit from this iteration process if they released games more often. They change a too many things with each iteration. Each new game ends up with a collection of new features that range from rough, but good with mods, to completely broken trash. They don't even need to develop in-house. Contracting out New Vegas to release 2 years after Fallout 3 turned out to be a great decision as New Vegas fixed many of F3's serious flaws. But then they never did it again. Then fallout 4 didn't come out for five years, made huge changes and reintroduced many of the problems New Vegas solved. Starfield is likely to be one of the worst Beth games because it's a new IP and its been so long since their last release.

 

[Poseidon00]

And yet it's still superior to not having the system at all.
Whiners are the reason they went in the opposite direction, you guys should LOVE skyrim. Morroclowns + skybabies forever.

Yes.

People actually left their towns in Oblivion and went to visit other ones. Like people and not Morrowind-esque placeables. Imagine that! We don't even get that level of detail in the "much improved" Skyrim AI.

 

[NerevarineKing]

Since not knowing where you're going is so fun I assume you guys also never use GPS in real life, you ask a random hobo on the street for directions, write it down in your journal and then do your best to figure it out. And instead of driving, you walk there really slow with poopy pants.

That could be fun for a certain type of person, I guess. Me, I'd rather get where I'm going and start killing shit.

Pointless comparison, GPS doesn't exist in Tamriel.

The game gives players guild teleportation, silt striders, and teleportation spells and people are still whining about navigation issues. This just sounds pure incompetence at this point. I need the magic arrow to tell me what to do, thinking is too much work.

 

[Skinwalker]

Since not knowing where you're going is so fun I assume you guys also never use GPS in real life, you ask a random hobo on the street for directions, write it down in your journal and then do your best to figure it out. And instead of driving, you walk there really slow with poopy pants.

It's almost as if video games aren't real life.

 

[NerevarineKing]

If you can use your imagination for silt strider and boat fade-to-blacks why is it so hard to imagine that a fast-travel guy in oblivion walked or cast recall? Is it autism?

Because fast travel has no in-world explanation and silt striders actually do.

 

[KateMicucci]

Since not knowing where you're going is so fun I assume you guys also never use GPS in real life, you ask a random hobo on the street for directions, write it down in your journal and then do your best to figure it out. And instead of driving, you walk there really slow with poopy pants.

It's almost as if video games aren't real life.

Eat ze bug eggs
Live in ze fungal pod
You vill be nerevarine and you vill be happy

 

[KateMicucci]

If you can use your imagination for silt strider and boat fade-to-blacks why is it so hard to imagine that a fast-travel guy in oblivion walked or cast recall? Is it autism?

Because fast travel has no in-world explanation and silt striders actually do.

Morrowhiners need an in-game explanation for how legs work.

Makes sense.

 

[NerevarineKing]

If you can use your imagination for silt strider and boat fade-to-blacks why is it so hard to imagine that a fast-travel guy in oblivion walked or cast recall? Is it autism?

Because fast travel has no in-world explanation and silt striders actually do.

Morrowhiners need an in-game explanation for how legs work.

Makes sense.

Silt Striders and guild teleportation are established parts of the game's world and fast travel is just a game mechanic. If you can't tell the difference, I'm not sure what to tell you.

 

[Skinwalker]

guys real life has gps therefore medieval fantasy world must also have gps duuuuuuuuuuurrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

 

[KateMicucci]

Silt Striders and guild teleportation are established parts of the game's world and fast travel is just a game mechanic. If you can't tell the difference, I'm not sure what to tell you.

How do i get from athkatla to trademeet

Walking is not an established part of the game world

 

[NerevarineKing]

Silt Striders and guild teleportation are established parts of the game's world and fast travel is just a game mechanic. If you can't tell the difference, I'm not sure what to tell you.

How do i get from athkatla to trademeet

Walking is not an established part of the game world

Literally all your comparisons are pointless. BG2 is split into maps and isn't a persistent open world. I honestly have no idea what you're trying to argue. I never claimed that legs had to established as a game mechanic, but you sure seem to think so.

 

[Skinwalker]

Guys a non-open world RPG has several non-contiguous areas, therefore an open world RPG has to have GPS and unrestricted teleportation huuuuurrrrrrrrrrrr

 

[KateMicucci]

Guys a non-open world RPG has several non-contiguous areas, therefore an open world RPG has to have GPS and unrestricted teleportation huuuuurrrrrrrrrrrr

Guys it chaps my ass so hard when a video game has fast travel that I'm still going to bitch and moan about it fifteen years later

Hahahaha

 

[Skinwalker]

Guys it chaps my ass so hard when a video game

Stop projecting.

 

[Ulysa]

guys real life has gps therefore medieval fantasy world must also have gps duuuuuuuuuuurrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

Am I the only one who grew up without a gps asking my mom or a friend where things were?

 

[Harthwain]

If you can use your imagination for silt strider and boat fade-to-blacks why is it so hard to imagine that a fast-travel guy in oblivion walked or cast recall? Is it autism?

Because fast travel has no in-world explanation and silt striders actually do.

Morrowhiners need an in-game explanation for how legs work.

Makes sense.

Silt Striders and guild teleportation are established parts of the game's world and fast travel is just a game mechanic. If you can't tell the difference, I'm not sure what to tell you.

I will add one more thing: they work like bus stops - they take you only from a specific spot to another specific spot whereas fast travel is like a teleport from anywhere to anywhere. At which point you don't really need spells such as Mark and Recall or any kind of teleportation or transportation, because you can accomplish the same simply by using fast travel.

 

[Funposter]

Morrowind's fast travel network is a mechanic that needs to be mastered. It's a very simple mechanic, but it still requires you to learn the layout of the network to operate at maximum efficiency. This means you need to know which silt striders and boats are going where, but also where Almsivi and Divine Intervention will be taking you from any given location, and whether its best for you to set your Mark in front of someone like a quest giver (Caius Cosades, as an example) or if it's best to have it set in some central location that gives you access to the rest of the map. A great example of this is the Telvanni stronghold at Uvirith's Grave. By setting your Mark at the stronghold's front door, you now have access to Molag Mar via Almsivi Intervention, and Sadrith Mora via Divine Intervention. Molag Mar has a Silt Strider to Suran and Vivec, and a boat to Tel Branora, Hla Oad and Vivec. You can also hop to Ebonheart using Divine Intervention, a quirk of the layout of the southeastern portion of the map. From Sadrith Mora, you have boat access to the rest of Telvanni territory and also Guild Guide teleports to Morrowind's major cities + Caldera. A guild guide to Vivec also lets you quickly run to its upper most cell (by the Silt Strider) and Divine Intervention to Pelagiad. This is a complex branch of location all stemming from a single Mark that you can Recall to at any time, but making use of it to its utmost potential relies on you actually having access to the relevant spells and also knowing the layout of the map. The location most diametrically opposed, Gnisis, only requires three trips to reach - Divine Intervention to Sadrith Mora-> Guild Guide to Ald-Ruhn -> Silt Strider to Gnisis.

In Oblivion and Skyrim you click on the map. It doesn't even cost you any gold.

 

[KateMicucci]

Morrowind's fast travel network is a mechanic that needs to be mastered. It's a very simple mechanic, but it still requires you to learn the layout of the network to operate at maximum efficiency. This means you need to know which silt striders and boats are going where, but also where Almsivi and Divine Intervention will be taking you from any given location, and whether its best for you to set your Mark in front of someone like a quest giver (Caius Cosades, as an example) or if it's best to have it set in some central location that gives you access to the rest of the map. A great example of this is the Telvanni stronghold at Uvirith's Grave. By setting your Mark at the stronghold's front door, you now have access to Moalg Mar via Almsivi Intervention, and Sadrith Mora via Divine Intervention. Molag Mar has a Silt Strider to Suran and Vivec, and a boat to Tel Branora, Hla Oad and Vivec. You can also hop to Ebonheart using Divine Intervention, a quirk of the layout of the southwestern portion of the map. From Sadrith Mora, you have boat access to the rest of Telvanni territory and also Guild Guide teleports to Morrowind's major cities + Caldera. A guild guide to Vivec also lets you quickly run to its upper most cell (by the Silt Strider) and Divine Intervention to Pelagiad. This is a complex branch of location all stemming from a single Mark that you can Recall to at any time, but making use of it to its utmost potential relies on you actually having access to the relevant spells and also knowing the layout of the map. The location most diametrically opposed, Gnisis, only requires three trips to reach - Divine Intervention to Sadrith Mora-> Guild Guide to Ald-Ruhn -> Silt Strider to Gnisis.

In Oblivion and Skyrim you click on the map. It doesn't even cost you any gold.

 

[dacencora]

Then again, morrovirgins probably think morrowind has better writing than VTMB.

I’ve pretty much always loved Morrowind, I’m a big fan of it, but no, VTMB has better writing. I think I probably like most things about VTMB more than Morrowind, tbh. They’re both great, but for storyfags, VTMB is undoubtedly better.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Is there a worse group of people than morrowhiners?
They worship a game with no redeeming qualities. They can't explain one thing the game does well beyond bellyfeels.
Sad!

 

[Moonrise]

Reminder that Kirkbride is a hack, and that Morrowind is nothing but digested refuse from the pages of Etidorhpa.

 

[KateMicucci]

The morrovirgin:
Gets fatigued by running.
Walks like he's shit himself (he has)
No horse. Needs to plan out a complicated route of silt striders, boats, and teleport networks just to pick up his weekly kwama egg ration.
Never talks to anyone, just mutters to himself out loud.

The Oblivichad:
Has an active social life, engages in pleasant smalltalk with other Cyrodilians
Busy schedule, his entire day is planned in advance
Can run as long as he wants without getting tired
Has a horse with awesome armor
Can travel anywhere he wants without having to explain to his mom how he got there
Ten second clips of him goofing around get millions of youtube views

 

[Robotigan]

Reminder that Kirkbride is a hack, and that Morrowind is nothing but digested refuse from the pages of Etidorhpa.

Bruh, that's just being well read.