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Mount & Blade release date - Now Even More Specific

HardCode

Erudite
Joined
Aug 23, 2005
Messages
1,139
I believe for an action-type game, animations and such are appropriate allocations of resources and not useless. I think the game has been greatly "fleshed out", as the game is no where near the same game as 0.751. There is much more content in the form of sieges, factions, NPC Lords, etc.
 

dagorkan

Arbiter
Joined
Jul 13, 2006
Messages
5,164
Yes it's a different game but I'm not sure it's a huge improvement, apart from the eye candy and combat balance tweaks which were needed anyway there's nothing I couldn't do without. I and I think everyone was expecting much more when we learned of it when it was at .650. What we hoped for and what turned out are very far apart.

4kposts
 

Sir_Brennus

Scholar
Joined
Jun 7, 2006
Messages
665
Location
GERMANY
Germany's leading paper gaming mag GameStar have a review in their newest issue in their "Abenteuer" section that features RPGs and Adventures.

They give it a score of 55/100 and a price/quality ratio of "good" (30€ srp).

Major complaints:

- lack of story hurts motivation
- hitting and blocking system is confusing
- abysmal presentation
- not very accessible gameplay

In short: For Fans.
 

Oarfish

Prophet
Joined
Sep 3, 2005
Messages
2,511
> hitting and blocking system is confusing
> not very accessible gameplay

Well, that's what happens when you let gaming journalists near anything but Halo or a pretentious platform game. The game has plenty of flaws, but a complicated combat model isn't one of them.
 

Kingston

Arcane
Joined
Jan 13, 2007
Messages
4,392
Location
I lack the wit to put something hilarious here
I guess Armagan thinks that the game is fine as is. Which it obviously isn't. Its always felt like one of those open-source game projects that make steady progress but end up getting nowhere. It feels like its only halfway to the finish line.
 

DarkUnderlord

Professional Throne Sitter
Staff Member
Joined
Jun 18, 2002
Messages
28,553
HardCode said:
Sure, I'd have liked the game to move into a more RPG-ish direction. But I'm just saying how much can you criticize a game for not being an RPG when they were originally only claiming to be an RPG-lite. Tis all.
Four years ago on this very forum...

armagan said:
We have the gameplay, AI, etc. in place. We are currently working on the story, dialogs and graphical content.
I guess that never happened, huh? The graphics have been updated in pretty much every version. I think the expectation a lot of us had (even RPGDot's first ever preview of it) was that the story would eventually happen and would most likely end up in the release version. Now apparently, we "make our own story". Notepad: The Game.
 

dagorkan

Arbiter
Joined
Jul 13, 2006
Messages
5,164
Taleworlds always sort of encouraged us to LARP. In fact one of the longest threads on the official boards (and threads often go into 300 pages there) is dedicated to LARP write-ups.
 

HardCode

Erudite
Joined
Aug 23, 2005
Messages
1,139
DarkUnderlord said:

So an "Action/RPG" should be held to the same standards as an RPG?

Now apparently, we "make our own story". Notepad: The Game.

No, more like

... we "make our own story". Sid Meier's Pirates!: The Game.

I'm all for ripping into companies and games that are marketing as the "m0ar bestest epic RPG gaem uf all tiem!!!", but ripping into a game that is NOT an RPG with critisizms reserved pretty much for RPGs doesn't make sense to me. In all reality, M&B shouldn't even be Codex news.
 

Nedrah

Erudite
Joined
Mar 14, 2005
Messages
1,693
Location
Germany
RPG or not, as a long time player and supporter of M&B I damn well expected version 1.0 to offer some real meat in terms of content, at the very least some overarching goals that make the underlying gameplay, you know, have an actual point. I hope that they simply didn't put all the real content into the forum-betas so long-time players have the chance to be surprised and get something fresh along with the people who pick up the frodogorn package from retail.
 

PrzeSzkoda

Augur
Joined
Jan 27, 2004
Messages
632
Location
Zork - Poland
Project: Eternity
DarkUnderlord said:
No, you get to cue up with your men as the they line up one-by-one to go up the sole available plank to storm a castle. Then they get stuck at the end and die. So you pull out your big sword and have to go there and single-handedly kill everyone only to fail miserably because the game has moved more towards a LARPing simulator.

... but get on your horse in an open field and you single-handedly kill all before you without any problems what-so-ever. Hopefully all of that shit's been fixed up in the "AI tweaks".

If you really do believe that it's the only way of storming castles, you're brain addled and deserve to get pwnd every time you attempt besieging. You really should control your troops, mang, give 'em orders 'n shit. Say, order your archers to hold position around the plank and snipe the guys above, lead your tuffest infantry yourself (using the "Follow me, biatches" command - a bunch of Hired Blades should do the trick) and try to gain some sorta foothold inside the castle, then hold that position for all you're worth whilst scanning the walls for sniping archers and whatnot. Plus, you'd best have at least twice as many troops as there are garrisoned in the castle/city and lotsa Tactics skill, so as to gain numerical advantage. Really, it ain't THAT complicated. Plus, sieges are meant to be difficult and lenghthier - not much of a chance of besieging a castle in your first assault.

The game's fine by me. You can slay innocent peasants, lead a rebellion and burn, loot and raze villages and whatnot. I've lost any hope of getting a decent story in the game a long time ago. The mechanics are great, I'm even tempted to mebbe try modding the thing in order to plot it up a lil' bit.
 
Joined
Jul 30, 2006
Messages
5,934
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Being a big gay tubesteak hahahahahahahahag
Sieges are the only part of the game I really don't like, to be honest. The AI is unable to find its way around some of the more complicated castles properly, so I end up having to wander around hunting out enemies stuck behind things/enemies standing around in huge groups in places my soldiers are apparently unwilling to go.
And having to push your way up the plank to get a foothold is retarded.

So yeah, sieges could use some more work.
The rest of the game? Meh, it's a combat simulator, and it's fun for that. I'm glad I'm not going to be paying full price for it, but taking over the world for the Nords then leading the claimant to rebel and take over the kingdom gave me plenty of entertainment, even if it did start getting samey near the end. I'm waiting until some of the 1.0 mods start rolling out before I give it another go, but it's worth the money if you buy it now.
 
Joined
Nov 24, 2005
Messages
1,269
Location
The Von Braun, Deck 5
HardCode said:
I'm all for ripping into companies and games that are marketing as the "m0ar bestest epic RPG gaem uf all tiem!!!", but ripping into a game that is NOT an RPG with critisizms reserved pretty much for RPGs doesn't make sense to me.
Can't rip on a game of legend, eh?
 

LCJr.

Erudite
Joined
Jan 16, 2003
Messages
2,469
It's a 3rd person shooter/wargame far as I'm concerned. And I'm quite happy with the sandbox approach. My bitch is with the AI. It hasn't shown any real improvements since I started playing the game. Jimbob hit on part of it but the pathfinding is fucked up even without obstacles.

See Figure 1, always wanted to say that, the AI pathfinding treats opposite map edges as if they're connected. In the older versions a lot of times you'd find the enemy AI infantry running in place on their map edge trying to get to you. Usually in these situations your infantry also had a habit of advancing by walking backwards with their shields up. The problem is still there it's just hidden by using a larger map and starting the AI enemy near the middle.

Figure 2, logic dictates the shortest distance between two points is a straight line. How often do you see that in M&B. On the overland map you can click somewhere and take off at a weird angle rather than moving directly to your target. In combat if you watch you'll see the AI frequently run off in directions where there aren't any enemies. Or during the advance infantry will turn around and run the opposite direction for a short distance.



Other bitches. Sieges do indeed suck. I don't even bother with the ramp. I take all crossbowman and shoot everything. Enemy lords come and go at will. I thought the point of a siege was to stop people from entering or leaving. I blame Armagan for this one since BfS had siege camps that didn't allow that.

The AI doesn't keep it's shield up when facing missile troops. The "holding a swing" behaviour can be easily exploited with a missile weapon. AI still shoots at corpses on occasion. AI sometimes goes "stupid" and just stands in place for awhile.

AI infantry still has zero chance against cavalry. I'm not an uber player but even I can take 40 heavy cavalry and wipe out over 300 Rhodoks. There's something very wrong with that.

This version seems to have introduced a new clipping error or maybe it's their idea of a feature. When an enemy is right on top of you a swing doesn't register a hit. Doesn't seem to affect the AI though and you know how much they love leg humping you.
 

Fez

Erudite
Joined
May 18, 2004
Messages
7,954
Even in the 1066 mod the sieges were more fun than vanilla. The sieges are poorly done and once again what was seemingly beta stages or place holders while they fleshed it out became the final product instead.

The AI issues and problems with orders and formations isn't fun either.
 

LCJr.

Erudite
Joined
Jan 16, 2003
Messages
2,469
WTF Fez? Sure you're not thinking of Battle for Sicily?

The sieges in 1066 were little more than a demonstration of the games clipping problems. Both yours and the enemies troops would run up to the walls and stab and hack at each other through what should have been a solid object. I quickly learned I could win all sieges by either running up and down the walls swinging an axe blindly like an idiot or standing to one side of the gate and swinging an axe blindly like an idiot until they were all dead. The walls were so low you could even hit the enemies that somehow made it up to the catwalks.

Don't get me wrong except for the sieges I really liked 1066. Well up until they pulled their pity routine anyway. But the sieges were just as flawed as Natives. Even when I tried to do things "properly" I couldn't get my troops to follow me through the gates.
 

Fez

Erudite
Joined
May 18, 2004
Messages
7,954
I might be thinking of that other one right enough. I've been through a pile of mods since the early days. :?

Still, the vanilla one sucks balls in comparison to most the mod efforts and it doesn't seem to be taking any of the inspiration that it should be from them. The game seems to have stagnated during development.
 

LCJr.

Erudite
Joined
Jan 16, 2003
Messages
2,469
Fez said:
The game seems to have stagnated during development.

My thoughts exactly. Like I've said before all the major new features are from Nijis(Steve). Prior to him coming on board things had pretty much stagnated.

But you know he could have spent that time improving the AI and fixing the clipping issues.
 

HardCode

Erudite
Joined
Aug 23, 2005
Messages
1,139
Dementia Praecox said:
HardCode said:
I'm all for ripping into companies and games that are marketing as the "m0ar bestest epic RPG gaem uf all tiem!!!", but ripping into a game that is NOT an RPG with critisizms reserved pretty much for RPGs doesn't make sense to me.
Can't rip on a game of legend, eh?

Touche! :D
 

DefJam101

Arcane
Joined
Nov 11, 2007
Messages
8,047
Location
Cybernegro HQ
List of things this game needs:

- More realistic damage modeling
- Greater focus on tactics, rather than individual player twitch skill
- Greater character customization
- More 'elite with swords' style gameplay elements. Give the player more options, and focus on making the world react to his style of play.
- Castle. Fucking. Sieges.
- Training mechanics
- Tits
- More coordination. Campaigns, wars, long-term strategies, diplomacy... something besides running around and killing people.
- Less 'random' arena, with more consistent challenge. Who's fucking idea was it to have some people on horses and some people with bows.


Basically, :effort:.
 
Joined
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Being a big gay tubesteak hahahahahahahahag
Supporting a claimant for taking over a kingdom has a few interesting - if very unpolished - diplomacy options. You have to basically conquer the kingdom, but to do so, you can talk to each lord and persuade them to join your side. It makes use of modifiers like your persuasion skill, your relationship with the lord, their personality compared to the arguments you provide (along with a consistency penalty/bonus if you change your arguments from lord to lord), and whether any of the lords who've already joined you are friends or enemies of theirs. You could theoretically take over the entire kingdom and only ever get into battle with the faction leader themselves.
As I said, it's unpolished, but if they expand and improve on it, the game could be far more interesting.
 

LCJr.

Erudite
Joined
Jan 16, 2003
Messages
2,469
DefJam101 said:
List of things this game needs:

- More realistic damage modeling
- Greater focus on tactics, rather than individual player twitch skill
- Greater character customization
- More 'elite with swords' style gameplay elements. Give the player more options, and focus on making the world react to his style of play.
- Castle. Fucking. Sieges.
- Training mechanics
- Tits
- More coordination. Campaigns, wars, long-term strategies, diplomacy... something besides running around and killing people.
- Less 'random' arena, with more consistent challenge. Who's fucking idea was it to have some people on horses and some people with bows.


Basically, :effort:.

1. Damage model is VERY basic. And don't anyone even suggest kung-fu master fucktard's mod. You only have three hit locations, no bleeding or criticals and just barely hitting with the last 1cm does as much damage as a solid hit.

2. Yup. IIRC Armagan has said in the past he likes the chaos so no formations. There's really only three tactics. If you have mostly cavalry just charge. If you're pretty much all infantry and have enough missile troops just hold the high ground. If you have a mix have your infantry hold and take your cavalry behind them and then charge everyone.

3. What? You pick your face, skintone, skills, banner, etc... What more do you need?

4. OK now I get it. Elite with swords. The AI seems to the treat the player like anyone else. All it does is count troops. I'm disappointed by that too. Seemed like in .903 if I looted Lord X's village several times he'd go out of his way to loot mine. The game keeps track of relationships but you don't get anything like vendettas.

5. Utterly fucked. Pathfinding and clipping issues abound. I especially love the ones where the AI defenders run down the ramp in ones and twos. Try Tehlrog if you don't know what I mean.

6. Never bothered me. Your troops gets points from everyones training skill and you can do the training grounds. Once you and your companions get above level 15 you can churn out rank 4 troops in a few days.

7. Take away your female party members armor. They'll run around in their 1 million BC bikinis.

8. Have you played .960? The AI needs more work although I fear it's too late in the game for that. Having marshalls and the AI actually making assualts is a big improvement though.

9. I don't do the arena for that very reason.
 

Nedrah

Erudite
Joined
Mar 14, 2005
Messages
1,693
Location
Germany
Is it still wrong to say "mods are going to fix it" in this case?

I mean, once an updated TLD is released, native will be nothing but a distant memory for most people anyways.
 

dagorkan

Arbiter
Joined
Jul 13, 2006
Messages
5,164
first take a look at this ancient thread with lots of wisdom


http://forums.taleworlds.net/index.php/ ... 537.0.html


then i will take it from the dots... If .960 is the last beta before 1.0, does that mean...........

............that we will never see the running/stamina that has like millions of post implemented

............that we will never see formations

............that we will never see the difference between passive blocking and parrying and keep BLOCKING a great axe with an arming sword or a wooden staff

............that we will never see naval combats

............that we will never see a dynamic economics/population/migration/starvation/blabla system

............that we will never see a dynamic weapon slot system that would make sense (yeah 4 daggers cost the same amount of space as 4 poleaxes true)

............that we will never see catapults and damaging walls (remember couched lance to walls in 800)

............that we will never see horses refusing to run into trees and have their own ai

............that we will never see dynamic price system or a price chart to really become a merchant

............that we will keep seeing soldiers swinging swords behind walls and succeed with hitting us.... this one is pathetic

............that we will never see pre-combat options (ambush, prepared defense etc) or world map stealth depending on the terrain

............that we will never see our soldiers mixed into squads

............that we will never see weapons/wound system (blunt weapon with 120 speed bonus to the head knocks you down, but poking with a spear kills you)

............that we will never see real changes to the towns/villages that we have (building a school? i would rather kill the bandits and refuse villagers' gifts)

............that we will keep seeing assholes making lists like this one

and many more could be added.

and before someone writes moddable next to the things i wrote just like this guy did http://forums.taleworlds.net/index.php/ ... #msg386815 i ll say.....


.......................................................................unless someone sacrifices his precious lifetime and make a mod that would earn him nothing.

to tell the truth i knew that this game would be this half finished combat simulator since the 751 to 800 update; since it was almost purely a graphics enhancement but didn t want to believe. i was sure by the time paradox interactive or what ever became the official publisher/distributor. now the developers have their most crucial excuse: WE ARE RUNNING OUT OF TIME SORRY. and they never had the courtesy to tell us to stop wasting our time coming up with many of the ideas, because they were never going to be implemented. i for once asked this here

http://forums.taleworlds.net/index.php/ ... 417.0.html but the discussion interestingly turned into whether removable limbs were going to happen or not as it always in this forum.

since this game sold many copies when it was beta (and i don t believe that 1.00 will exceed that number) it could go on like this for another year or two years and wouldn t hurt. i m telling you this ladies and gentlemen: this game was appealing because it was unfinished, and many people bought it not because of what it was but because of what it could be. many of the people that i convinced into buying and i, bought this game because we thought it was going to be the new daggerfall or something. but adding a .40 versions to this game and saying it's done will take it away basically because it is/will look mediocre.

this game had two options: either polish what it was good at, combat simulation; or add strategy, interaction, quest etc. to that. to be honest neither happened.

nothing has changed in terms of combat scene except the backspace options and minimap; and nothing has changed other then the new features that we get by pressing q in terms of gameplay and world map since 751. minor things like owning villages mean nothing to me, sorry. owning a village and not being able to tell them what to produce for this year, not being able to open shops to turn them into towns, not being able to make profit out of them other then recruiting and taxes don t help it. neither the auto-generating caravans that carry random material (food, weapons, raw material or what?!) which don t affect the world other then an arbitrary term, aka the "prosperity".

i m not saying that i didn t get the utility that 20+ paypal dollars could offer, no i m not saying that. i enjoyed this game a lot (mostly thanks to the modders). but still it is a disappointment. the first game that comes from my country that looks like a real game, that s something to be proud of, but still 2+ years that i saw could bring out a much better result with better interaction with the audience. even if the hardcore modders like yoshi and ancient and many others had access to the main codes they could have produce something better.

to summarize: what made this game playable for years was the mods which is pure altruistic efforts of the players. but that same devotion didn t come form the developers. no it is not their game. that maybe true in commercial terms but ethically this is your game and you deserved more.

yani diyorum ki... sen elalemin çabasıyla bu oyunu ayakta tut ama karşılık olarak bir kere bile cevap verme, dediklerini kaale alma, onların istediği yönde çaba sarfetme. bence olacak iş değil.

never mind the turkish...

thanks.
 

Mojo

Scholar
Joined
Apr 26, 2008
Messages
276
Unfortunatelly the guy from this long rant has a point. I'm a longtime supporter of M&B and was a modder for the game for quite some time as well, and I can't say I ain't disappointed.

From all the feedback at those forums they took the worse to heart. "Bettar Graphix!", "Moar Factionz!", "Siegez!", "Moar Borchas and Marnids!" and else.

If they just had listened to the people that suggested positive gameplay improvements, implementation of role-playing and an actual story, comparison to games like Darklands, etc, this game would skyrocket. But meh, instead they did what they had been doing all along : improving the nits and grits and leaving the actual content to modders.

Still, with all the shit, the game still has the best medieval combat around and I'm sure modders will fix all the flaws soon enough. It's deffinately a good game with mods, as it was in version .751.
 

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