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My review of ToEE

Azael

Magister
Joined
Dec 6, 2002
Messages
4,405
Location
Multikult Central South
Wasteland 2
Despite having an exam in macroeconomics coming up shortly, I've decided to write up my own little review of Troika's latest roleplaying game. Bear with me, since I'm quite new at this and I'm likely to repeat myself. I'll do this in segments and won't bother with any introduction, since I figure you all are familiar with the game.

Character Creation - First thing you encounter in the game and while it's good it's not without its flaws. Already here it's obvious that the game is geared towards people who have some prior knowledge of D&D. It's fun to cook up a number of different characters types though, really fun. The biggest flaw with the character creation is that if you go back and change something, you have to start over from that point, even if it is something as inconsequential as gender or hair style. Not good and quite frustrating. Even so, the sheer amount of possibilities give this segment a score of 8/10.

Combat - It's all about the combat, or at least so you'd think if you evaluate the design decisions. Combat is good, very good, and apparently very faithful to the rules, although I personally couldn't care less about that. The number of spells you can use seems greater than most previous D&D games. A few gripes about the combat is that the enemy AI is less than stellar at times (although I guess that's more of a general phenomena of computer gaming) and that there are almost too many options, for the non-PnP player that is. Much have been said about the radial menu, and while I find it functional and easy enough to navigate it's far from being an ideal solution. I really think they could have come up with a better interface. Still, this is easily the strongest point of the game. 9/10

Quests - In the beginning of the lasts segment I said it was all about the combat, but in the end that isn't true. There are plenty quests to do in the game, and here lies the biggest problem of the game: most of the quests simply aren't interesting. I don't know what Troika were thinking when they included not one (which really would have been one too many) marriage/romance quest in Hommlet, but five of them. What is this, a roleplaying game or a matchmaker simulation? The fact that all of the marriage quests are done in a way that makes the romances of Baldur's Gate 2 seem deep and well written doesn't exactly help things. Apparently four or five lines of dialogue is enough to convince both NPC and PC of eternal love. Once you get to Nulb, what do you have there. Yep, another romance quest although a gay one. How very PC of them. Frankly the rest of the quest in Hommlet aren't much better, since most of them only have one solution. The only ones remotely interesting is the one where you have to collect money from Cavanaugh and the quest to get flour from the miller, since they at least give some moral choices. Things pick up a bit when you come to the temple, although they can only really be considered geared towards neutral or evil characters, which at least is an interesting deviation from most CRPGs where good guys get the most fun. The end verdict must be that this is the weakest point of the game. 4/10

Story and dialogue - Another weak point of the game. While some people have defended this game by saying that the original module is weak in these areas as well, I don't think this is an excuse. This is Troika we're talking about after all, Arcanum showed that they could write both good dialogue and story, but for most of the game this isn't very good. I suppose you could say that the game suffers a bit from the same problem as Arcanum did that for parts of the game you don't really know what you're doing, and more importanly why you're doing it. Again, this picks up when you get to the temple, but I think this is too late. Having NPC's provide you with more background information, even using such old tricks such as finding journals of other adventurers, would have helped. The NPCs in the game, including those who can join you, are largely not very interestin either. Even Ian had more personality than a lot of them. 5/10

Graphics and sound - The game looks great plain and simple. Both the backgrounds and the animations are beautiful. I've kept a savegame right before encountering the Balor, just because I think it looks so damn good. The sound effects and the music holds a good class too. It's a shame that the atmosphere created by this isn't taken advantage of to the extent it could be. The voice acting is what drags this down, since for the most part it's terrible, with a few decent exceptions. The rest of it is good enough to warrant a high score though. 8/10

Final thoughts - Like I said, I have an exam coming up next week, and I've still spent way too much time playing this game. I think this is a game that could have been really, really great and it's a shame that bugs and questionable design decisions keeps it from achieving that greatness.

Final score: 7/10
 

Vault Dweller

Commissar, Red Star Studio
Developer
Joined
Jan 7, 2003
Messages
28,035
Azael said:
Already here it's obvious that the game is geared towards people who have some prior knowledge of D&D.
Let me ask you a question, Azael, is ToEE's character creation more complicated then that of Arcanum, Fallout, or Prelude? No really. When you have a new system you have to spend some time figuring it out, the issue with ToEE, however, is that it's based on a familiar system. So naturally there would be some people who know the system better then others, and the fact that some people have to RTFM and some don't is not the flaw of the game itself.

The biggest flaw with the character creation is that if you go back and change something, you have to start over from that point, even if it is something as inconsequential as gender or hair style.
I don't think that many people would go back to change the hairstyle, although I agree that all visual attributes should have been grouped together at the end.

Even so, the sheer amount of possibilities give this segment a score of 8/10.
8/10? Why? Because you have to start over to change the hairstyle and had to look at the manual a few times. You are not being fair.

Combat 9/10
9/10 is not bad, I won't argue, but, imo, it's the most combat related fun we had in years, it's very solid and very well done.

Quests Things pick up a bit when you come to the temple, although they can only really be considered geared towards neutral or evil characters, which at least is an interesting deviation from most CRPGs where good guys get the most fun. The end verdict must be that this is the weakest point of the game. 4/10
I agree, I expected better from Troika. The marriage quest is incredibly boring, it gets worse when you replay the game, and have to endure the running around again, and again, and again. I usually skip it as there is no XP shortage in the game. The temple quests are better, but it still takes one liners to solve them, and that's very unfortunate, considering the quality of dialogues in Arcanum. I didn't expect ToEE's quest to have the same level of depth, but I didn't expect a bare minimum either. IWD2 had much better writing and some great lines for evil characters. Overall, it's a shame, considering that we were promised that ToEE would be up to Troika's role-playing standards.

Story and dialogue - Another weak point of the game. 5/10
While I agree with you, I think it's unfair to rate a combat game using several non-combat categories. Story, dialogues, and quests belong under one roof.

Final thoughts - Like I said, I have an exam coming up next week, and I've still spent way too much time playing this game. I think this is a game that could have been really, really great and it's a shame that bugs and questionable design decisions keeps it from achieving that greatness.
I think it was a great and very solid first step. Imagine Arcanum 2 with ToEE's TB combat and uber detailed graphics. I give ToEE 9/10 mostly because I never had a single crash, and I rate it for what it is - a dungeon crawler supreme. Once the bugs are dealt with, any other game that follows ToEE like AtG would be a solid 10.
 

chrisbeddoes

Erudite
Joined
Oct 22, 2002
Messages
1,349
Location
RPG land
Character Creation - First thing you encounter in the game and while it's good it's not without its flaws. Already here it's obvious that the game is geared towards people who have some prior knowledge of D&D. It's fun to cook up a number of different characters types though, really fun. The biggest flaw with the character creation is that if you go back and change something, you have to start over from that point, even if it is something as inconsequential as gender or hair style. Not good and quite frustrating. Even so, the sheer amount of possibilities give this segment a score of 8/10.

I would give it 9/10 with a 10 % weight

Combat - It's all about the combat, or at least so you'd think if you evaluate the design decisions. Combat is good, very good, and apparently very faithful to the rules, although I personally couldn't care less about that. The number of spells you can use seems greater than most previous D&D games. A few gripes about the combat is that the enemy AI is less than stellar at times (although I guess that's more of a general phenomena of computer gaming) and that there are almost too many options, for the non-PnP player that is. Much have been said about the radial menu, and while I find it functional and easy enough to navigate it's far from being an ideal solution. I really think they could have come up with a better interface. Still, this is easily the strongest point of the game. 9/10


9/10 also with a 40 % weight (9/10 for the bugs and the inability to stop combat at the majority of maps.)


Quests - In the beginning of the lasts segment I said it was all about the combat, but in the end that isn't true. There are plenty quests to do in the game, and here lies the biggest problem of the game: most of the quests simply aren't interesting. I don't know what Troika were thinking when they included not one (which really would have been one too many) marriage/romance quest in Hommlet, but five of them. What is this, a roleplaying game or a matchmaker simulation? The fact that all of the marriage quests are done in a way that makes the romances of Baldur's Gate 2 seem deep and well written doesn't exactly help things. Apparently four or five lines of dialogue is enough to convince both NPC and PC of eternal love. Once you get to Nulb, what do you have there. Yep, another romance quest although a gay one. How very PC of them. Frankly the rest of the quest in Hommlet aren't much better, since most of them only have one solution. The only ones remotely interesting is the one where you have to collect money from Cavanaugh and the quest to get flour from the miller, since they at least give some moral choices. Things pick up a bit when you come to the temple, although they can only really be considered geared towards neutral or evil characters, which at least is an interesting deviation from most CRPGs where good guys get the most fun. The end verdict must be that this is the weakest point of the game. 4/10

agreed and more. Quests suck bad. simply they are not fun.They get 2/10
However since this is a heavy combat module combat quests get a weight of only 10 %


Story and dialogue - Another weak point of the game. While some people have defended this game by saying that the original module is weak in these areas as well, I don't think this is an excuse. This is Troika we're talking about after all, Arcanum showed that they could write both good dialogue and story, but for most of the game this isn't very good. I suppose you could say that the game suffers a bit from the same problem as Arcanum did that for parts of the game you don't really know what you're doing, and more importanly why you're doing it. Again, this picks up when you get to the temple, but I think this is too late. Having NPC's provide you with more background information, even using such old tricks such as finding journals of other adventurers, would have helped. The NPCs in the game, including those who can join you, are largely not very interestin either. Even Ian had more personality than a lot of them. 5/10
I give it 8/10 because it closely matches the original module.
And a weight of 10 %



Graphics and sound - The game looks great plain and simple. Both the backgrounds and the animations are beautiful. I've kept a savegame right before encountering the Balor, just because I think it looks so damn good. The sound effects and the music holds a good class too. It's a shame that the atmosphere created by this isn't taken advantage of to the extent it could be. The voice acting is what drags this down, since for the most part it's terrible, with a few decent exceptions. The rest of it is good enough to warrant a high score though. 8/10

The graphics are the best ever for a 2d rpg . I give it 10/10 for a 20 rating.
The sound not so good .I give it 6/10 with a 10 % weight.

Now lets calculate.

(0.06+0.2+0.08+.02+.36+.09)*10 out of 10
=(0.26+0.1+.45)*10 out of 10
=(0.26+0.55)*10 out of 10
=8.1/10

So my rating is 81 %
but it can get much higher with a good patch.



Final thoughts - Like I said, I have an exam coming up next week, and I've still spent way too much time playing this game. I think this is a game that could have been really, really great and it's a shame that bugs and questionable design decisions keeps it from achieving that greatness.

Final score: 7/10
 

HanoverF

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Nov 23, 2002
Messages
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MCA Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Codex USB, 2014 Divinity: Original Sin 2
I think Character creation is a 9 or 10, but the big problem I see right off the bat when starting a new game your given an alignment choice and told nothing about what these alignments mean, sure most you can figure out, but it would be better if there was a description of what each alignment indicated, and even better if it told you things like you can't have a monk with a chaotic party, or a barbarian with a Lawful party, etc etc...
 

Saint_Proverbius

Administrator
Staff Member
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Messages
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I never had to restart the process based on changing hair either.

As for the quests, I agree about the marriage quest being boring - and that has mainly to do with all the travelling and running around just to get it done and the lack of ways to do it. However, the quest does yield some nice perks - a druid follower and a nice holy longsword. It'd really be much nicer if there were multiple ways to free up that barn space rather than build a new barn.
 

EEVIAC

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Joined
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Messages
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Bumfuck, Nowhere
Isn't character creation always complex, requiring some prior knowledge of the gameworld? Take Diablo 2 for example - what information do I have when I first play the game that Fireblast is going to be usefull? About the same amount of information that "Cleave" is a good feat for a fighter? It seems to me that people with prior D&D knowledge may have an advantage, in that they can maximize/optimize their characters (if that's the sort of thing they want to do,) while everyone else starts at the same point they do in any other game.
 

Saint_Proverbius

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EEVIAC said:
Isn't character creation always complex, requiring some prior knowledge of the gameworld? Take Diablo 2 for example - what information do I have when I first play the game that Fireblast is going to be usefull? About the same amount of information that "Cleave" is a good feat for a fighter? It seems to me that people with prior D&D knowledge may have an advantage, in that they can maximize/optimize their characters (if that's the sort of thing they want to do,) while everyone else starts at the same point they do in any other game.

Well, one thing you have to consider is that unlike a game like Diablo, which uses it's own, custom system, D&D uses a system which a lot of people do know. You halfway have to expect that people will have prior knowledge of the system, so saying that if you know the system, you'll be better off.. Well, the big thing games like ToEE are marketting for is the D&D crowd who would know the rules.
 

EEVIAC

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Saint_Proverbius said:
Well, one thing you have to consider is that unlike a game like Diablo, which uses it's own, custom system, D&D uses a system which a lot of people do know. You halfway have to expect that people will have prior knowledge of the system, so saying that if you know the system, you'll be better off.. Well, the big thing games like ToEE are marketting for is the D&D crowd who would know the rules.

Exactly. That's one of the things that completely baffles me - the general public view of D&D is that its complex and difficult to understand unless you're a grognard, and that opinion seems to be perpetuated verbatim. (If I join the conga line and say D&D is complex, can I be cool too? :roll: ) Any character system worth its weight should have some complexity because that, in turn, is going to offer some semblance of choice.

While we're speaking about complex systems, I don't see reviewers getting all persnickety over Madden 2004's pedantic attention to detail. Madden has 1000's of plays, a veritable fuckload of stats for each and every player and tonnes of gameplay choices. My point is that its seemingly perfectly acceptable for one computer simulation of a passtime (sport) to be almost impenetrably complex, but its not for another computer simulation of a passtime (PnP) to be likewise. What the fuck is going on?
 

Volourn

Pretty Princess
Pretty Princess Glory to Ukraine
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Messages
24,924
Football is apopular mainstream sport; D&D is for geeks. 'Nough said.

As for the review here; not bad except I'd rate both character creation, and combat at least at 9 since those two are obviously the game's strengths and warrant it, imo. Otherwise, pretty dead on.
 

Megatron

Liturgist
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Dec 7, 2002
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328
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carpet
I thought only us geeks pay for and play on computers?
 

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