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My soft criticism of Underrail.

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Excidium II

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You forgot to mention how this game's economy goes bonkers really fast. I arrived in junktown with ~3k and left with ~150k.
 

Nines

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And then it introduces money-sink like
Core City house (I read somewhere that everything cost around 40000 Stygs), which is completely useless aside from crafting bonuses, or Foundry super steel (9000 Stygs for 3 bars).
I can't say I like this approach.
 

Gnidrologist

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Can anyone explain why a game that is in all aspects worse looking, with more rudimentary animations than 20year old Jagged Alliance 2 is such a resource hog? Transitioning between areas and save/load times are ridiculous. Even TEH YUGE GRAFIXX tripla-A blockbusters are more seamless with saving in the background on my shitty 6 year old laptop i3/4gb/gt630 than this little thing. Seems like a nice game, but this is somewhat off putting.
 
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Excidium II

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Can anyone explain why a game that is in all aspects worse looking, with more rudimentary animations than 20year old Jagged Alliance 2 is such a resource hog? Transitioning between areas and save/load times are ridiculous. Even TEH YUGE GRAFIXX tripla-A blockbusters are more seamless with saving in the background on my shitty 6 year old laptop i3/4gb/gt630 than this little thing. Seems like a nice game, but this is somewhat off putting.
Because it is not a professional game by a team professional programmers being paid full work hours, be thankful it exists at all
 

Jazz_

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Can anyone explain why a game that is in all aspects worse looking, with more rudimentary animations than 20year old Jagged Alliance 2 is such a resource hog? Transitioning between areas and save/load times are ridiculous. Even TEH YUGE GRAFIXX tripla-A blockbusters are more seamless with saving in the background on my shitty 6 year old laptop i3/4gb/gt630 than this little thing. Seems like a nice game, but this is somewhat off putting.

You must be blind as a bat if you think JA2 looks better :D. But anyway if you disable autosaving everytime you enter a new area the transitions between locations get faster.
 

Gnidrologist

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Already did that, but thx.
@Excidium II
I know, but i thought that good programming skills are not gained by increasing quantity of programmers. It would seem that huge developer crew is needed for doing most of the graphixx and exploshunz shit that AAA games aim for most of the time, not something like core programming.
 

Beastro

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Base of Libruls was hard in fun way; my char pretty much relied on shield for defense... and they throwed grenade to strip it from me the first turn; this and the gas timer made it into the best and most intense fight in whole game... I do agree game had impression of being half cooked though especially at story and quests part; the throw faceless captive to pit/set him free choice for example; no option to incacipate him and turn to authorities for civic duty/bounty? And why should I care about SGS after becoming the Bonzo in Core City? I was not even raised here and people treated me like pawn/guy to do dirty and dangerous work whole time... Also the fact that Dreadnaught armor you found sucked so much and was one mission only... Come on Doors prevents me to drive it out? This thing has Diamont covered adamantium drill for throne sake... And so on but the clue Underrail was never even advertised as storyfag game and the exploration part was still superb.

It was an easy ride for me using traps alongside a sniper rifle, molotovs and paralysis cal trops. I lured em into charging the room you come out of and between the above shit they got torn down quickly allowing me time to run around grabbing shit and picking off the last remaining survivors.

It was very satisfying though. when I get back to the game I'll waste the Protectorate, I hear doing that after completing their missions doesn't change the end CNC. It did make me feel that any sequel needs to improve the AI so it isn't just a blind charger that will pile over cal trops so long as you have them cover all avenues of approach. It would have been hilarious if the AI was smart and just ran away from the gas before leaving the map because they'd known I'd trapped myself in that room behind my own wall of obstacles.

As for the feel of the game, the writing isn't good and is very bare bones, but the game is very atmospheric and that was good enough to work for me. As a first time game, it makes me expect more things from Styg, but he'll have to do more than just more of the same. Is the expack out yet? I was hoping to see what feel that would give to see what the future holds.
 
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ArchAngel

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As for the feel of the game, the writing isn't good and is very bare bones, but the game is very atmospheric and that was good enough to work for me. As a first time game, it makes me expect more things from Styg, but he'll have to do more than just more of the same. Is the expack out yet? I was hoping to see what feel that would give to see what the future holds.
I actually enjoyed this "bare bones" writing. Rarely you don't find a game where while reading you know writers would rather be world known novelists but alas they write shit for shit games. In Underrail, writing often felt like real people instead of characters made by wanna be novelists.

EDITED: see underlined
 
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Beastro

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As for the feel of the game, the writing isn't good and is very bare bones, but the game is very atmospheric and that was good enough to work for me. As a first time game, it makes me expect more things from Styg, but he'll have to do more than just more of the same. Is the expack out yet? I was hoping to see what feel that would give to see what the future holds.
I actually enjoyed this "bare bones" writing. Rarely you find a game where while reading you know writers would rather be world known novelists but alas they write shit for shit games. In Underrail, writing often felt like real people instead of characters made by wanna be novelists.

It allows me room for the atmospheric to fill things in. I think it's a happy medium and if it didn't have that atmospheric or he tried to write better going in on his first try it would have been worse than what we got.
 

Lhynn

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I actually don't mind the cooldowns because they force you to do something else rather than just spamming the awesome button.
I'm playing pure-psi and a big part of it is having to juggle the cool-downs, psi energy level, use the right ability, mind enemy placement, make head calculations towards the optimal target, etc.

If not for cooldowns, I would probably just spam Telekinetic Fist + Cause Fear over and over while gorging on psi boosters. Maybe fire off some chain lighting and fields.
If not for cooldowns he would have had to *gasps* balance the skills accordingly so that they are all useful! ye gods, dodged a bullet there.
 

roshan

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Ok, so now playing the game on hard with a non-gimped build, and I have the following observations:

1. It's too damn easy. There is absolutely no challenge or difficulty at all. My knife build steamrolled through the bots, the mutants in the depots, through Carnifex and rathoound king. I haven't cleared out all the lurkers and ironheads yet, but doubt it would be a problem because thus far human groups have not been an issue.

2. Knife build is kinda boring as it is literally just click to kill. Which is actually much better than playing the "cycle through a bunch of cooldown abilities" game.

3. The most I've had to do as far as something special for battles is in a couple of them I've had to take adrenaline shots or switch to a knife with electricity damage. Otherwise, all of the game's other systems are still useless and superfluous due to how extremely easy it is.

4. I will never play a pickpocketing build again. The entire process of pickpocketing is actually well done enough but it is a huge, massive, wasteful timesink. (This game was without pickpocket and much more fun as a result) But I don't know how oddity mode or a gun build would function without pickpocket as it's a major source of both oddities and ammo.

5. Got bored around core city and just quit playing.

It's kinda sad that this game has so much wasted potential because of how it's too scared of challenging players. The radical nerf of the mutants in the depot just shows that the developers are a bunch of massive pussies.
 
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oneself

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Ok, so now playing the game on hard with a non-gimped build, and I have the following observations:

1. It's too damn easy. There is absolutely no challenge or difficulty at all. My knife build steamrolled through the bots, the mutants in the depots, through Carnifex and rathoound king. I haven't cleared out all the lurkers and ironheads yet, but doubt it would be a problem because thus far human groups have not been an issue.

2. Knife build is kinda boring as it is literally just click to kill. Which is actually much better than playing the "cycle through a bunch of cooldown abilities" game.

3. The most I've had to do as far as something special for battles is in a couple of them I've had to take adrenaline shots or switch to a knife with electricity damage. Otherwise, all of the game's other systems are still useless and superfluous due to how extremely easy it is.

4. I will never play a pickpocketing build again. The entire process of pickpocketing is actually well done enough but it is a huge, massive, wasteful timesink. (This game was without pickpocket and much more fun as a result) But I don't know how oddity mode or a gun build would function without pickpocket as it's a major source of both oddities and ammo.

5. Got bored around core city and just quit playing.

It's kinda sad that this game has so much wasted potential because of how it's too scared of challenging players. The radical nerf of the mutants in the depot just shows that the developers are a bunch of massive pussies.

Hmm did they nerf mutants again? I remember melee being an absolute struggle at that point.
 

Sykar

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I actually don't mind the cooldowns because they force you to do something else rather than just spamming the awesome button.
I'm playing pure-psi and a big part of it is having to juggle the cool-downs, psi energy level, use the right ability, mind enemy placement, make head calculations towards the optimal target, etc.

If not for cooldowns, I would probably just spam Telekinetic Fist + Cause Fear over and over while gorging on psi boosters. Maybe fire off some chain lighting and fields.
If not for cooldowns he would have had to *gasps* balance the skills accordingly so that they are all useful! ye gods, dodged a bullet there.

I have yet to see a developer who has developed a game like this and who could balance abilities without CDs. All of those games without CDs devolve into spamming the most efficient/powerful ability over and over, turning the game into a snorefest.
You might not like CDs and disagree with them being used as a balancing tool, but that does not neccessarily make a game worse. In fact, I prefer a well balanced game with CDs than a game without and shitty balance, which most are anyway.
 

Gnidrologist

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Do i suck a vidyas or what, because i don't find this game piss easy at all. Not in the early levels at least. And i'm on normal.
 

Lhynn

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I have yet to see a developer who has developed a game like this and who could balance abilities without CDs. All of those games without CDs devolve into spamming the most efficient/powerful ability over and over, turning the game into a snorefest.
We didnt always have cooldowns and games managed just fine back then. There are other kinds of resources.

You might not like CDs and disagree with them being used as a balancing tool, but that does not neccessarily make a game worse.
Yes they do.

In fact, I prefer a well balanced game with CDs than a game without and shitty balance, which most are anyway.
I prefer a balanced game without shitty CDs.
 

roshan

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Apr 7, 2004
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I actually don't mind the cooldowns because they force you to do something else rather than just spamming the awesome button.
I'm playing pure-psi and a big part of it is having to juggle the cool-downs, psi energy level, use the right ability, mind enemy placement, make head calculations towards the optimal target, etc.

If not for cooldowns, I would probably just spam Telekinetic Fist + Cause Fear over and over while gorging on psi boosters. Maybe fire off some chain lighting and fields.
If not for cooldowns he would have had to *gasps* balance the skills accordingly so that they are all useful! ye gods, dodged a bullet there.

I have yet to see a developer who has developed a game like this and who could balance abilities without CDs. All of those games without CDs devolve into spamming the most efficient/powerful ability over and over, turning the game into a snorefest.
You might not like CDs and disagree with them being used as a balancing tool, but that does not neccessarily make a game worse. In fact, I prefer a well balanced game with CDs than a game without and shitty balance, which most are anyway.

"Spamming the most efficient/powerful ability over and over" is the very definition of cooldown gameplay. That's why Underrail, Pillars of Shitternity, Tranny, The Shadowruns, etc. are so shitty, combatwise. You just wait till your ability refreshes and then spam it. Basically you spend all of combat cycling through the same 5 or so abilities. There's no thought process to it, it's not at all involving, it's just useless and pointless busywork.
 

Sykar

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I actually don't mind the cooldowns because they force you to do something else rather than just spamming the awesome button.
I'm playing pure-psi and a big part of it is having to juggle the cool-downs, psi energy level, use the right ability, mind enemy placement, make head calculations towards the optimal target, etc.

If not for cooldowns, I would probably just spam Telekinetic Fist + Cause Fear over and over while gorging on psi boosters. Maybe fire off some chain lighting and fields.
If not for cooldowns he would have had to *gasps* balance the skills accordingly so that they are all useful! ye gods, dodged a bullet there.

I have yet to see a developer who has developed a game like this and who could balance abilities without CDs. All of those games without CDs devolve into spamming the most efficient/powerful ability over and over, turning the game into a snorefest.
You might not like CDs and disagree with them being used as a balancing tool, but that does not neccessarily make a game worse. In fact, I prefer a well balanced game with CDs than a game without and shitty balance, which most are anyway.

"Spamming the most efficient/powerful ability over and over" is the very definition of cooldown gameplay. That's why Underrail, Pillars of Shitternity, Tranny, The Shadowruns, etc. are so shitty, combatwise. You just wait till your ability refreshes and then spam it. Basically you spend all of combat cycling through the same 5 or so abilities. There's no thought process to it, it's not at all involving, it's just useless and pointless busywork.

Errr, no. There are some builds like SMGs were you do that but many other builds are quite diverse, especially PSI and hybrid builds. So in other words, wrong. Ironically, SMG is one of the few builds with no real CDs outside of grenades and Quick Tinkering Feat.
On the other hand, we see how shitty many non-CD games are after for example the ME 2 debacle, where they moved away from individual CDs and to a global CD, which led precisely to the behaviour I explained earlier, as the analogue of PSI there we have biotics. Do you know what Biotics spam on higher difficulties than normal? Warp, 95% of the time. Why? It is the most effective ability per GCD, and if GCD was removed they would just spam it non-stop.
Other examples would be for example Elder Scrolls games, all will lead ultimately using the same self made damage spell over and over. Only exception in Morrowind was that you would use summons against certain high level demons because of their reflect ability.

Oh and that first sentence is retarded. The very reason you have CDs is so you have to use other abilities while waiting for CDs, well balanced CD games have the most powerful restricted by high CDs, among other things.
 
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Jazz_

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That was not my experience at all, quite the opposite actually as Underrail was one of the few games where coming up with different strategies to deal with enemies was gratifying, never relied on any overpowered special ability, dunno what your build was but in my crossbow/psy/trap hybrid I have no awesome win buttons to spam, and I had to think and come up with dynamic approaches to overcome tough encounters.
 

Lhynn

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"Spamming the most efficient/powerful ability over and over" is the very definition of cooldown gameplay. That's why Underrail, Pillars of Shitternity, Tranny, The Shadowruns, etc. are so shitty, combatwise. You just wait till your ability refreshes and then spam it. Basically you spend all of combat cycling through the same 5 or so abilities. There's no thought process to it, it's not at all involving, it's just useless and pointless busywork.
Hm, actually as far as i remember in shadowrun the only cooldown powers my character used were self buffs, on underrail i picked no cooldown powers. Pillars of eternity does not have cooldowns as far as i remember.
Anyway, the problems with the combat in each of these games is very different. In underrail there are no grave issues, its enjoyable and challenging and mastery of the system allows the player to create some really frightening beasts.
The problem with shadowrun is mostly that theres no depth to it, no real tactical choices, just pick who dies next and thats it.
The problems with pillars of eternity are many, first theres the whole combat speed, it goes by too fast, and this wouldnt be an issue if it was real time, but the pause feature makes it shit to look at, annoying to play and because of how combat works you are always pausing to do the exact same shit you did last fight. accuracy bounded to critical chance means some characters will go down in 2 attacks, so their survivability actually goes down as they level up, its retarded. Then you have the per fight abilities that you have to use every fight, its a chore, then you have the low duration of magic, it doesnt feel like magic if you can only animate or summon creatures for 20 seconds or so, it feels really lame. Engagement forcing the fights to be static, etc.
Its just a mess, a bunch of really amateurish design choices with little thought behind them.
 

circ

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No you are fine. Despite what people are claiming, this game is not a walk in the park early on.
Well I haven't played the game since... early last year maybe? I've been trying to again but the new font doesn't agree with me and I think I tried every possible build there was and boredom set in. Anyway, it doesn't take much for it to be that though [walk in park]. I mean, get about half a dozen well picked perks, get some decent weapon/body armor from that smuggler island, and you're good to go. I had no issues with mutant factory before nerf after a while, only had to reload a bunch for Carnifex with some builds. Throw in a good shield, some nades, and you don't really have to do much tactical thinking.
 

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