New Obsidian Kickstarter (Update: Not really, dammit Duraframe) (Banned Duraframe - DU)

[Goegoff]

Star Control sequel.

In true kickstarter fashion they should strike a deal with Chris Roberts, to make it in the Star Citizen setting, and milk a few dozen millions out of Russian aluminium/oil/gas tycoons.

 

[Comrade Goby]

Game of Thrones. THAT would give them a couple of millions.

I hope not because I fucking hate fucking retarded Game of Thrones.

Fuck you. Too edgy to enjoy quality?

Also wow I hope Obsidian doesn't push through with that.

Why not make a non fantasy rpg?

Wild west, mafia, spy, illuminati, gundams, etc

Or some space like Star Trek or ME

 

[Onholyservicebound]

Fuck you. Too edgy to enjoy quality?

That's the stupidest question I've ever seen asked by anyone.

 

[Spectacle]

Fuck you. Too edgy to enjoy quality?

That's the stupidest question I've ever seen asked by anyone.

GoT is basically a soap opera with boobies, violence and fancy costumes.

 

[Lady_Error]

GoT is basically a soap opera with boobies, violence and fancy costumes.

Many interesting characters, unpredictable storyline (anyone can get killed), genius world design with summers and winters that last years, etc. Lots of good stuff.

 

[Rake]

genius world design with summers and winters that last years, etc.

I agree with the rest and i like GoT well enough, but it's world is nothing special. For sure nothing that should contain the word "genius" in it's description.

 

[Grunker]

Fuck you. Too edgy to enjoy quality?

That's the stupidest question I've ever seen asked by anyone.

GoT is basically a soap opera with boobies, violence and fancy costumes.

yeah, political plots and struggles for institutional power are a key element of any decent soap opera

game of thrones isn't the best thing ever but it's still edgy as all hell to put it on the level of a fucking soap opera

genius world design with summers and winters that last years, etc.

I agree with the rest and i like GoT well enough, but it's world is nothing special.

what, pray tell, is good world building if got fails your test?

 

[Excidium]

That's what it is.

 

[Rake]

Grunker
We already had this discusion in regards to Witcher and Abercrombie, which i also consider par of the course as far as worldbuilding goes. We define world building differently.
As for world building i consider significantly better than GoT from the top of my head:
PoN by Bakker
Malazan by Erikson
Anything by China Mieville
LotR by Tolkien
Long Price Quartet by Daniel Abraham
BotLS by Wolfe
SotA by Tchaikovsky

 

[Grunker]

Grunker
We already had this discusion in regards to Witcher and Abercrombie, which i also consider par of the course as far as worldbuilding goes. We define world building differently.
As for world building i consider significantly better than GoT from the top of my head:
PoN by Bakker
Malazan by Erikson
Anything by China Mieville
LotR by Tolkien
Long Price Quartet by Daniel Abraham
BotLS by Wolfe
SotA by Tchaikovsky

see, this is my fucking issue

tolkien doesn't get a pass because he was first: i agree that his worldconstruction was thorough and good, but i don't agree that got's is any different

what martin lacks in mythological mysteries he makes up for with much more detailed and cool human cultures with LOADS more detailed aspects of behaviour and ritual than Tolkien have (and don't say silmarillon to me - you don't get to say that novels had good world-building because an encyclopedia exists that details it)... martin actually manages to differantiate human cultures from each other significantly without falling into the trap of "this is the greek culture, this is the roman etc"

even his fucking elves are p. cool (before he derps out with his lack of author-ability and the plot crumbles)

ffs, martin is a shit author; basically the sole reasons the first couple of books are saved is that his cultural construction and the insertion of characters into medieval institutions totally work - if got didn't have an unpredictable plot of lethal high-level medieval politics and an insanely interesting world, it would have nothing at all

 

[Rake]

Grunker
We already had this discusion in regards to Witcher and Abercrombie, which i also consider par of the course as far as worldbuilding goes. We define world building differently.
As for world building i consider significantly better than GoT from the top of my head:
PoN by Bakker
Malazan by Erikson
Anything by China Mieville
LotR by Tolkien
Long Price Quartet by Daniel Abraham
BotLS by Wolfe
SotA by Tchaikovsky

see, this is my fucking issue

tolkien doesn't get a pass because he was first: i agree that his worldconstruction was thorough and good, but i don't agree that got's is any different

what martin lacks in mythological mysteries he makes up for with much more detailed and cool human cultures with LOADS more detailed aspects of behaviour and ritual than Tolkien have (and don't say silmarillon to me - you don't get to say that novels had good world-building because an encyclopedia exists that details it)... martin actually manages to differantiate human cultures from each other significantly without falling into the trap of "this is the greek culture, this is the roman etc"

even his fucking elves are p. cool (before he derps out with his lack of author-ability and the plot crumbles)

ffs, martin is a shit author; basically the sole reasons the first couple of books are saved is that his cultural construction and the insertion of characters into medieval institutions totally work - if got didn't have an unpredictable plot and an insanely interesting world, it would have nothing at all

Fair enough. Though i find funny that you take what you consider the strongest part of GoT worldbuilding (detailed and cool human cultures) and compair it with the worst of the works i listed when it comes to those aspects. Why don't you compaired it with Bakker or Erikson for example?
As far as human cultures goes, GoT indeed is above average, but it is uneven. The cultures that are the most developed are the ones in Westeros, which are based very strongly on existing medieval ones. Martin should be praised for his depiction of medieval institutions, but it's not fresh enough for me to consider it "genius worldbuilding" And the further away we go from westeros, the more barebone the cultures are.
For example, the differences between the cultures of the Free Cities are few and far between. Quarth seemed very similar to Mereen for my tastes with most of the differences being superficial. Dothraki are the classic "Mongol Horde with a new paint".
His elves are p. cool though. (because they aren't elves propably)

 

[Grunker]

Genius was not my wording, I reacted to your "nothing special" which I find to be as reductionist as calling it genius is hyperbole.

 

[Roguey]

I don't get people that hope for an Arcanum from Obsidian; they haven't done anything that would indicate they have the design paradigm to make a game like that. The closest they've got is with the faction reputation mechanics in New Vegas.

Josh Sawyer could build a better Arcanum than Tim Cain since he understands abstraction and disregards "But realism...!"

Arcanum's pretty much just trad-fant-world-going-through-early-industrial-revolution Fallout-with-a-lot-more-dungeon-crawls anyway.

 

[Rake]

Genius was not my wording, I reacted to your "nothing special" which I find to be as reductionist as calling it genius is hyperbole.

Yes, propably i sounded overly dismissive.I don't consider GoT world building bad, but the "genious world design because summers and winters last years" was... hyperbolic to put it kindly.

 

[Jarakka]

Arcanum's pretty much just trad-fant-world-going-through-early-industrial-revolution Fallout-

And that's why it rocks.

 

[Rake]

Arcanum's pretty much just trad-fant-world-going-through-early-industrial-revolution Fallout-

And that's why it rocks.

-with-a-lot-more-dungeon-crawls anyway.

And that's why it is worse than Fallout, considering it's combat was atrocious. If Arcanum had 95% less combat, it would be so much better.

 

[Jarakka]

Considering Fallout was an excellent game, it's impressive how it still rocks despite of it.

 

[cherry blossom]

I don't get people that hope for an Arcanum from Obsidian; they haven't done anything that would indicate they have the design paradigm to make a game like that. The closest they've got is with the faction reputation mechanics in New Vegas.

Josh Sawyer could build a better Arcanum than Tim Cain since he understands abstraction and disregards "But realism...!"

Arcanum's pretty much just trad-fant-world-going-through-early-industrial-revolution Fallout-with-a-lot-more-dungeon-crawls anyway.

I dread to play Arcanum again for the grind and linear corridor parts but overall, the game is far more memorable than most Obsidian games. Some of the quest lines and writing in particular are in a league Obsidian rarely manages to step into despite all the fad with their writing and characterisation. It's truly a flawed gem while most Obsidian games are merely good to mediocre.

 

[Kanedias]

Grunker
We already had this discusion in regards to Witcher and Abercrombie, which i also consider par of the course as far as worldbuilding goes. We define world building differently.
As for world building i consider significantly better than GoT from the top of my head:
PoN by Bakker
Malazan by Erikson
Anything by China Mieville
LotR by Tolkien
Long Price Quartet by Daniel Abraham
BotLS by Wolfe
SotA by Tchaikovsky

Abercrombie's First Law trilogy is one of my favourite fantasy series next to the Lord of the Rings (I probably like it more than I like A Song of Ice and Fire) but his worldbuilding is indeed not that good. It is not bad at all, but I'd classify it as just "serviceable". The books excel for different reason, mostly the characters and themes. A Song of Ice and Fire is better as far as worldbuilding goes, but I agree it's still far from something such as Tolkien. It's good, but not "genius".

It's truly a flawed gem while most Obsidian games are merely good to mediocre.

Heresy. Embrace the Avellone.

 

[Rake]

Heresy. Embrace the Avellone.

KotOR2 and MotB are the only Obsidian games i realy like.
NV and AP were mixed bags, many good elements and many bad ones mixed
DS3 and SoZ were good for what they were (meh)
And NWN2 OC was bad.

 

[cherry blossom]

Heresy. Embrace the Avellone.

Wound in the Force. Right. Thanks but no.

 

[Rake]

Heresy. Embrace the Avellone.

Wound in the Force. Right. Thanks but no.

Yes but has he A FUNDAMENTALLY FLAWED understanding of the Force?

 

[Kanedias]

His take on the Star Wars mythos is better than any other and Lucas should be thankful. Gives the setting much needed complexity rather than submitting to the usual manichean and boring black-and-white Light Side vs Dark Side stuff.

 

[cherry blossom]

I wouldn't say "any other" so easily but I agree for the most part in general but not in some of the significant details. "Wound in the force" is still just another additional concept to the steaming pile of contradictive shit SW EU is brimming with.

Heresy. Embrace the Avellone.

Wound in the Force. Right. Thanks but no.

Yes but has he A FUNDAMENTALLY FLAWED understanding of the Force?

A good question to direct at a SW fan. Not being one, I only thought "LOL what a gay shit but ok, whatever" and moved on. Kind of like how I responded to midi-chlorians. And personally I would hate for my work to be compared to midi-chlorians.

 

[Jarpie]

Game of Thrones. THAT would give them a couple of millions.

I hope not because I fucking hate fucking retarded Game of Thrones.

Fuck you. Too edgy to enjoy quality?

Also wow I hope Obsidian doesn't push through with that.

Why not make a non fantasy rpg?

Wild west, mafia, spy, illuminati, gundams, etc

Or some space like Star Trek or ME

Ahahahahahahah, quality? Game of Thrones is fucking retarded soap opera porn with fucking retarded characters. Game of Thrones is basically excuse for to watch or read soft porn with shitty story.