New Shadow Warrior from Hard Reset devs - out now

[J_C]

So, the consensus is that this game is just a reskinned version of Hard Reset, the developer don't have any hope in selling based on it's own quality so it had to steal the name of other game that have nothing in common with their game?

Stop making shit up! Nobody made a concensus like that!

I did. Because it's true.

Then you are wrong. I didn't played too much Hard Reset, but SW doesn't look like a reskinned version of that.

 

[Baron Dupek]

wat

 

[DeepOcean]

So, the consensus is that this game is just a reskinned version of Hard Reset, the developer don't have any hope in selling based on it's own quality so it had to steal the name of other game that have nothing in common with their game?

Stop making shit up! Nobody made a concensus like that!

I did. Because it's true.

Then you are wrong. I didn't played too much Hard Reset, but SW doesn't look like a reskinned version of that.

Hard Reset check list:
Bullet spongy enemies, not dangerous but hard to kill. Check
100% linear, kinda pretty but really unremarkable maps. Check
Lack of enemy variety. Check
Shitty writing. Check
Can get boring and repetitive, with enemy encounters falling on a predictable pattern very fast. Check
It have a weapon upgrade system that turn shitty weapons in less shitty weapons. Check
It have a sword. Not check
So, is it Hard Reset with a sword?

 

[DalekFlay]

stop, please. Come on man, come on!

No different that modern popamole. Except running around to find keys/whatever requires actual complex level design, which was a big part of what made classic FPS fun. But i guess retards will retard.

100% linear, kinda pretty but really unremarkable maps. Check

The original Shadow Warrior was not some massive open world. It was usually a collection of rooms linked by more linear paths like the subway tunnel or mountain path. The modern game is roughly the same, after the intro levels, with collections of rooms and streets linked by more linear paths blocked by keys or whatever else. I haven't overlaid the maps in a pdf file to really compare dimensions, but the new one feels like it's at least making a nice step back toward that kind of level design.

When I bitch about modern shooters I am typically bitching about one of two things: slower pace dictated by console controls or tunnel level design with no branching, exploration or different paths. Shadow Warrior 2013 makes great strides in fixing both of these elements. Are they as strong as before? Perhaps not, but they're done decently and much better than any other modern shooter.

That doesn't mean it's perfect, or that the guns don't feel weak, or that the monotonous enemies get boring after 3/4s of the game. Sadly I think all these complaints have merit. I'm still glad I supported the game though.

 

[warpig]

Perhaps not, but they're done decently and much better than any other modern shooter.

Yeah, i also enjoyed Shadow Warrior more than the usual GOTY cover shooter, but that's probably because I find running, gunning and slashing more fun than hiding behind cover and watching pretentious cutscenes. Even if the former is as easy and unchallenging as the latter.

 

[Average Manatee]

The original Shadow Warrior was not some massive open world. It was usually a collection of rooms linked by more linear paths like the subway tunnel or mountain path. The modern game is roughly the same, after the intro levels, with collections of rooms and streets linked by more linear paths blocked by keys or whatever else. I haven't overlaid the maps in a pdf file to really compare dimensions, but the new one feels like it's at least making a nice step back toward that kind of level design.

The problem, again, is that SW2013 is based around discrete encounters rather than areas with actual thought put into enemy placement. Enter area->fight mobs coming out of portals ->look for loot -> next area. The fashion in which this occurs is linear and with no player input other than deciding what weapon to kill enemies with and how much time to piss away hugging walls to find loot.

Oldschool FPS design is: Enter Area->Explore->find loot/kill enemies-> explore more->repeat-> next area. The enemies are encountered in a non-linear fashion, the enemies and loot are placed so that certain paths through the area are harder or easier than others, and it's entirely possible to miss enemies or be surprised by one. This just doesn't happen in modern FPS. SW2013's levels don't combine with enemy design and placement to enhance the whole. Instead, SW2013 levels are mere window-dressing with almost no effect or relation to the enemies or combat outside of very vague and simple notions of whether a level has lots of room to maneuver or not.

 

[DalekFlay]

Oldschool FPS design is: Enter Area->Explore->find loot/kill enemies-> explore more->repeat-> next area. The enemies are encountered in a non-linear fashion, the enemies and loot are placed so that certain paths through the area are harder or easier than others, and it's entirely possible to miss enemies or be surprised by one. This just doesn't happen in modern FPS. SW2013's levels don't combine with enemy design and placement to enhance the whole. Instead, SW2013 levels are mere window-dressing with almost no effect or relation to the enemies or combat outside of very vague and simple notions of whether a level has lots of room to maneuver or not.

I'm not going to really disagree here. The new game is more Painkiller in its enemy encounter design, large combat-filled areas rather than precisely placed smaller encounters across the map. Some people prefer one over the other, but I'm not sure either is more "old school" than the other. Painkiller/Serious Sam style games are often billed as "old school" style, after all.

In any event, enemy placement does not negate my point. In the areas of combat pacing and level design Shadow Warrior is a big step up from most modern tunnel FPS games. You finding flaws in it does not prove me wrong, as a "step up" does not mean a fully traditional experience, or a perfect game. From the very beginning I have tried to balance my praise of this game with pointing out its faults and modern aspects. From the very first post I said the game was more linear, had cutscenes, focused on swords, etc. None of this is a shock to me, or refutes what I am saying.

Codex cannot into gradient improvement scales.

 

[UserNamer]

what's the point of supporting something for small improvements towards what doom already accomplished 2 decades ago? You serious? Also we had much more recent games (serious sam 3, the hd remakes, even painkiller) that were good or excellent games on their own right.


This game is even more popamoleish than popamole. THe enemies are absolutely harmless and you can heal any time (with the healing ability) much quicker than in cover based games and without the need of a cover.

 

[UserNamer]

The funny thing is that it managed to remind me why I no longer fancy old school shooters. Running around for keys/statues is not so different than modern popamole.

No different that modern popamole. Except running around to find keys/whatever requires actual complex level design, which was a big part of what made classic FPS fun. But i guess retards will retard.

to be honest I would settle for linear progression levels that aren't literally narrow straightforward corridors.

 

[DalekFlay]

what's the point of supporting something for small improvements towards what doom already accomplished 2 decades ago?

Because I like playing new shit sometimes? Because the combat in this game is fun?

You serious? Also we had much more recent games (serious sam 3, the hd remakes, even painkiller) that were good or excellent games on their own right.

I don't really like Serious Sam, it's too focused on circle-strafing a box of enemies constantly. Shadow Warrior is a better balance of the different styles for me.

 

[Average Manatee]

Oldschool FPS design is: Enter Area->Explore->find loot/kill enemies-> explore more->repeat-> next area. The enemies are encountered in a non-linear fashion, the enemies and loot are placed so that certain paths through the area are harder or easier than others, and it's entirely possible to miss enemies or be surprised by one. This just doesn't happen in modern FPS. SW2013's levels don't combine with enemy design and placement to enhance the whole. Instead, SW2013 levels are mere window-dressing with almost no effect or relation to the enemies or combat outside of very vague and simple notions of whether a level has lots of room to maneuver or not.

I'm not going to really disagree here. The new game is more Painkiller in its enemy encounter design, large combat-filled areas rather than precisely placed smaller encounters across the map. Some people prefer one over the other, but I'm not sure either is more "old school" than the other. Painkiller/Serious Sam style games are often billed as "old school" style, after all.

In any event, enemy placement does not negate my point. In the areas of combat pacing and level design Shadow Warrior is a big step up from most modern tunnel FPS games. You finding flaws in it does not prove me wrong, as a "step up" does not mean a fully traditional experience, or a perfect game. From the very beginning I have tried to balance my praise of this game with pointing out its faults and modern aspects. From the very first post I said the game was more linear, had cutscenes, focused on swords, etc. None of this is a shock to me, or refutes what I am saying.

Codex cannot into gradient improvement scales.

My response was to your assertion that linear progression of areas makes both games a linear experience. That couldn't be further from the truth.

 

[toro]

what's the point of supporting something for small improvements towards what doom already accomplished 2 decades ago?

Because I like playing new shit sometimes? Because the combat in this game is fun?

You serious? Also we had much more recent games (serious sam 3, the hd remakes, even painkiller) that were good or excellent games on their own right.

I don't really like Serious Sam, it's too focused on circle-strafing a box of enemies constantly. Shadow Warrior is a better balance of the different styles for me.

I see your point but honestly I'm not looking forward to another game like Shadow Warrior.

Yeah, it's mindless fun. But something is missing ... the same shit that is missing from DX:HR, Bioshock and others.

 

[DalekFlay]

My response was to your assertion that linear progression of areas makes both games a linear experience. That couldn't be further from the truth.

I don't think that was my point at all. All I said is I don't think the maps are as radically different as people are implying. Your counterpoint was the enemy placement is a different kind of linearity, which I said I was not going to disagree with.

 

[Average Manatee]

My response was to your assertion that linear progression of areas makes both games a linear experience. That couldn't be further from the truth.

I don't think that was my point at all. All I said is I don't think the maps are as radically different as people are implying. Your counterpoint was the enemy placement is a different kind of linearity, which I said I was not going to disagree with.

You don't consider enemy placement part of map design?

 

[DalekFlay]

You don't consider enemy placement part of map design?

That's a stupid semantic argument I don't really see as worth my time, no offense. Level design, map design, or simply "enemy placement"... whatever. Point I was making was structural play area.

 

[UserNamer]

Because I like playing new shit sometimes? Because the combat in this game is fun?

1)What's the point of playing new shit if it's actually shit? Don't you have any other hobby? Any other genre you like?
2)No

I don't really like Serious Sam

Who the fuck cares, it's not like your opinion is worth anything since you are hell bent on defending this POS.

Shadow Warrior is a better balance of the different styles for me.

ahahah WHAT? What different styles? It's just mindlessly slashing damage sponge worthless enemies, in unvarying locales and layouts

 

[oddech_wymarlych_swiatow]

Overall the gaem is disappointment.

It's about Duke Nukem Forever level of quality, maybe a bit better. And what is worse I didn't even try to think of it as SW prequel, just some oriental FPS.
I know this game supposed to be katana-centric... but it doesn't mean gunz had to be useless! I used them only to detonate blister monster and during boss fights.
Lo-Wang is like Dr. Dre goes Asian (I call him Low-Ang), rehashed quotes are butchered and the new ones consist of poor sarcasm . Original portagonist was far more edgy / politically incorrect.
Boss battles are boring but at least rare, biggest deal are minibosses, especially those bulky blue demons with orange weak spots on their back. They're not difficult, just annoying.
SW13 shine bright only when u killing huge amount of low HP enemies like minor demons, Yakuza dudes etc. with sword.
Level design? Non-existens.

I'll give it 6/10, it's worth playing until first boss battle, after then there's no point of completing it coz you saw everything the game has to offer.

Flying Hog plz improve or do not touch Redneck Rampage 2 or Blood 3.


PS. Cookies were pretty funny though.

 

[ZagorTeNej]

The original Shadow Warrior was not some massive open world. It was usually a collection of rooms linked by more linear paths like the subway tunnel or mountain path. The modern game is roughly the same, after the intro levels, with collections of rooms and streets linked by more linear paths blocked by keys or whatever else. I haven't overlaid the maps in a pdf file to really compare dimensions, but the new one feels like it's at least making a nice step back toward that kind of level design.

It's not about map dimensions but design, I feel that old SW still had a sort of level is your playground approach (which was common for build engine games, even more so for Blood and Duke where you had jumping boots and jetpack respectively), sure you needed to find keys to progress but for the most part you could run around and explore the level at your leisure and at times had a few alternate paths whether through vents, cracked wall you blow up and/or underwater paths (something which is very often missing in modern games, usually you die or get teleported back when you jump in the water).

In the new SW there are still far too many invisible walls to the point where I'm surprised when I can jump on some ledge that isn't on the main path, there aren't any alternate routes (if a main path branches out, it usually leads to a secret) that I could find, most levels feel like they're divided into multiple parts/set pieces instead of feeling like one big level and you're overall just too glued to the ground (no boxes/ledges to jump to, can't dive into water etc.).

Not saying that ultimately old SW wasn't linear as well (nor that I hold it as a pinnacle of level design, IMO both Blood and Duke3D where significantly better in that regard) but it's a different kind of linear experience.

 

[DalekFlay]

Again, for the hundreth time, I never said they were the same, or that Shadow Warrior is pure old school revival glory. I said from the start it's a decent compromise that's fun for people who want a modern shooter to play. Nothing anyone has said challenges that really, you're just all of the opinion any compromise is too far. Good for you, go play the original again, I couldn't give less fucks.

 

[ZagorTeNej]

Again, for the hundreth time, I never said they were the same, or that Shadow Warrior is pure old school revival glory. I said from the start it's a decent compromise that's fun for people who want a modern shooter to play. Nothing anyone has said challenges that really, you're just all of the opinion any compromise is too far. Good for you, go play the original again, I couldn't give less fucks.

Oh I definitely found the game to be a pretty entertaining 1st person slasher (and I'll likely replay it sometimes in the future) but I wish 90s school of level design for shooters/action (and or hybrid) games was still prevalent today (thankfully, there's still Arkane Studios though so smart level design is not a completely lost art).

 

[Humanity has risen!]

I can't see anything in this game, it practically made me pass out and it never happens to me. Are they trying to win the contest for the blurriest, bloomiest next-gen game?

 

[Correct_Carlo]

you're just all of the opinion any compromise is too far

Welcome to RPG Codex.

I have yet to play Shadow Warrior, but this thread inspired me to go back and finish the DLC for "Hard Reset" which was quite good, I thought. The final level is even mostly just large arenas--so it seems like the devs addressed some of the bitching about the spaces being too cramped in the original.

 

[Heresiarch]

Just watched the final level and ending. All I can say is it's such a fucking WTF? ending that's making me instantly regret touching the game in the first place.

 

[Multidirectional]

It's about Duke Nukem Forever level of quality, maybe a bit better.

I'll give it 6/10

Doesn't compute.

 

[oddech_wymarlych_swiatow]

DNF was not a complete garbage gaem, not worse than majority of shooters nowadays.

I had a lot more fun playing it than with this horrible turd Bioshock Infinite is.