Nintendo's new console: the Switch (formerly NX)

[Machocruz]

The Gamecube flopped. It was not part of "the good old days." Only in the fishbowl that is game forums and personal opinion was that console a success and the Wii the failure. I owned one, I enjoyed it for what it was, but Nintendo did not want to go back to that. Of course they made the Wii U and did exactly that.

There was a time when I agreed with the Iwata stance that consumers don't know what they want. Not anymore. Now you need to ask what do they want or you're not in business. This isn't the Atari or NES days anymore, it's been established what people like. You deliver that first and then you bring in your "innovation." But this was not a software announcement, but a hardware announcement, so I don't know why people are judging this thing's fate already. People on game forums, and nerds in general, have proven time and time again that they don't know what the masses like. They only hear the chatter bouncing off the walls of their echo chamber. They're still asking dumb questions like 'why would anyone like Minecraft or CoD or sports games.'

 

[Higher Animal]

The Gamecube flopped. It was not part of "the good old days." Only in the fishbowl that is game forums and personal opinion was that console a success and the Wii the failure. I owned one, I enjoyed it for what it was, but Nintendo did not want to go back to that. Of course they made the Wii U and did exactly that. They are not learning animals.

The GC was technically a profitable system with many profitable games (for Nintendo) on the system. That said, the market conditions that would allow for a console to be a minor success like the GC no longer exist. Technology has changed too much to reward a console manufacturer for producing something only slightly innovative

 

[CyberWhale]

If N launched Switch instead of WiiU few years ago, that shit would have probably sold much better + Nintendo wouldn't be in such a shitty situation like they currently are.

Still, I think we have to wait and see what their next move(s) will be like:

• will they pump some money into its marketing
• how much money will they ask for the console
• will they get the 3rd party support
• what 1st party games will they bring to the table (Zelda and Mario as AAA titles are good, but having previously handheld exclusives like SMT, FE, EO and PL serve as indie support would be even better)

It doesn't matter what they do, they are never going to repeat the Wii's success. Still, if they nail the aforementioned points perfectly, they might sell close to (or even more) units than Sony and M$ have managed to do. Or at least they'll oversell the catastrophe that was WiiU.

 

[Dexter]

Is this what will finally kill Nintendo? They seem to be hell-bent on releasing stupid hardware iterations that either nobody but their hardcore fans give a shit about or are a mass phenomenon for a bit but start gathering dust really fast and developers lose interest in due to lack of commercial viability. How about they stop this horseshit cycle since they can't into hardware and concentrate on making third party games instead selling them on other consoles and PC?

 

[Machocruz]

The GC was technically a profitable system with many profitable games (for Nintendo) on the system. That said, the market conditions that would allow for a console to be a minor success like the GC no longer exist. Technology has changed too much to reward a console manufacturer for producing something only slightly innovative

It was, but Nintendo has always been interested in reaching a wide audience, not merely being profitable. They were not pleased with the GC's performance. The Wii was to get more people in the door by emulating an input device the average first world person is familiar with: a remote. It was a recovery tactic after the GC. Personally I think Wii fell off because Nintendo started listening to the wrong people, not because or not just because of a fickle audience (still a success sales wise). What the fuck was a super violent game like MadWorld doing on the "family" console? I wasn't keeping track of each year, but it also looked like they weren't maintaining the supply of BrainAge and WiiFit type software. It's like the game's media got into their heads with all this talk of hardcore/casual. Nintendo has no conviction.

 

[Excidium II]

Nintendo not chasing the latest specs in consumer video entertainment is a good thing. Graphical fidelity and processing power has stalled, and increases in performance come at a premium.

So does the form factor. It's p. powerful for a tablet.

What you say would make sense if it was still a VCR sized console with active cooling.

 

[Genma:TheDestroyer]

I don't think the consumer market rejected the Wii U because it was too cheap or because they couldn't detect micro-improvements in graphics that high end specs would provide.

No, I'm focused on the reason why third party support fell off dramatically over time for the last couple Nintendo consoles. Because they're built around a gimmick few really put their all into taking advantage of, they're typically underpowered so it's hard to port something over evenly, and Nintendo does not put anywhere close to the same effort Microsoft and Sony do to court developers and keep them. They'll happily take what they can get and rely on first party stuff to keep them afloat.


And *that* is what drives consumers away as time goes on with a Nintendo console. The casuals are long gone anyway, and the people who want a wider library have probably bought another console to fill that need. Only the hardcore or those who don't have enough money for another purchase are left.

 

[Talby]

They need Metroid Prime 4 for this, and an exclusive Zelda that doesn't release at the very end of the console's lifespan. Some GOOD new Nintendo franchises would be welcome as well.

 

[Higher Animal]

One of Nintendo's problems was the lack of good tech in initial Wii machines. The Wiimote plus really advanced the sensory inputs on the console to being much more precise more of the time, and permitted drastically different gameplay experiences. The most notable example is the jump up in quality from Red Steel 1 to Red Steel 2. Nintendo also saddled the machine with lots of sold separately proprietary software that diffused the market for different gameplay experiences. It might've been a good business decision for individual Nintendo products, but the failure to encourage adoption of technologies through bundling those components in the primary console package sold at stores meant lots of Wii Junk with little software using it. As of 2009, every single Wii sold should've come bundled with a Wiimote Plus and Wii Fit board.

Also, the Wii HD could've released in 2010, at parity with both the Xbox 360 and PS3, with aforementioned upgrades in motion sensing technology and proprietary software bundled in. They really could've rode the Wii train a lot longer than what they were actually able to get.

I'm still confident Nintendo can survive if they approach augmented reality with an open mind and creative passion. If the "Switch" is all about this trend in technology then I see it becoming popular amongst the tech noise.

 

[Higher Animal]

No, I'm focused on the reason why third party support fell off dramatically over time for the last couple Nintendo consoles. Because they're built around a gimmick few really put their all into taking advantage of, they're typically underpowered so it's hard to port something over evenly, and Nintendo does not put anywhere close to the same effort Microsoft and Sony do to court developers and keep them. They'll happily take what they can get and rely on first party stuff to keep them afloat..

Making Games for the Wii U is not very hard. Most mainstream developers develop for at least five or six platforms. Had the Wii U doubled its console sales the third party software would be there. It's really that simple.

Again, your argument is that the Wii U would be successful if it had cost $200 more at launch. Think about that.

And *that* is what drives consumers away as time goes on with a Nintendo console. The casuals are long gone anyway, and the people who want a wider library have probably bought another console to fill that need. Only the hardcore or those who don't have enough money for another purchase are left.

You don't seem to understand that the market has shrunk, and videogames cost more to develop now than they ever have. You're asking Nintendo to hop aboard a sinking sailboat to bail alongside Microsoft and Sony.

Nintendo will not magically return to prominence by offering a more expensive machine than its competitors touting micro-innovations in graphics. That is a race to the bottom being fought by two outdated mega corps.

 

[Genma:TheDestroyer]

Again, your argument is that the Wii U would be successful if it had cost $200 more at launch. Think about that.

I'm thinking that I heard variants of all these arguments running up to the release of the Wii U. And wondering who will do it next time around in a couple years. I doubt the situation will have changed much by then.

 

[Higher Animal]

I'm thinking that I heard variants of all these arguments running up to the release of the Wii U. And wondering who will do it next time around in a couple years. I doubt the situation will have changed much by then.

I disagree entirely with your 2001 era thinking.

 

[Machocruz]

I should amend what I said earlier though. With enough of a marketing assault, you can sell dog shit to people who don't want it.

 

[CyberWhale]

Some people still have a misguided belief that Nintendo lost most of their customers (and 3rd party support) after turning to the fickle crowd, weak/cheap hardware and gimmick of Wii.

• Nintendo 64 sold 32.93 million (while PS fat + one sold over 120 million)
• Nintendo GameCube sold 21.74 million (PS2 sold 155 million and Xbox sold 77.2 million)
• Nintendo Wii sold 101.63 million (PS3 over 80 million and X360 over 80 million as well)
• Nintendo WiiU sold 13.1 million (PS4 over 40 million and XBONE over 20 million) - I basically predicted this (said it's going to sell somewhere between 10 and 20 mil) a few years ago on another site most people laughed at my predictions and called me a Nintendo hater, but eh

Do you guys see any patterns here? Wii was a miracle and an outlier - Nintendo was already losing the battle before it even came to an idea to try something different. And contrary to popular belief, both N64 and GC were STRONGER than Sony's flagships of the same generation. PS1 had an objective advantage (cheap and large CD medium over limited cartridge) and while GC had that miniDVD (1.4GB compared to 4.7GB of regular DVD) that really wasn't detrimental because all multiplatform titles that released on both consoles looked and ran better on Nintendo's system. PLEASE SHOW SOME REASONING SKILLS BEFORE YOU CONTINUE WITH YOUR POINTLESS DEBATE.

If Nintendo released a powerful and conservative console few years ago instead of WiiU, they still would have failed miserably. If they, like I already said, released Switch - similar but better concept (no movement restrictions), no need for adapting controls to that shitty tablet/touch controler and a clear marketing campaign (most people didn't even understand that WiiU was a new console) they would have probably fared much better than they did. Now it's too late to repeat the outstanding success of Wii, but the console could still be vastly successful if they play their card right.

 

[HoboForEternity]

the wii came out in a perfect situation. it is before the smartphone that grabbed all the casual market, and a new gimmick to draw the kids and grandmas in. it had fun party/family games . but after that samrtphones came out and sweep everything.

ninty thought they sitll can grab a share of the casual, by compromising a little on the hardcore fan. they failed miserably.

i also don't agree if ninty released a real powerful console on part with their competitor they would still fail. it would still be successful (though not as much as the wii) or at least it wont be as shitty as it is now. alot of nintendo fans are angry and turn their back on them now. the one remains are the most ultra core fans that live and breathe nintendo

 

[Genma:TheDestroyer]

PLEASE SHOW SOME REASONING SKILLS BEFORE YOU CONTINUE WITH YOUR POINTLESS DEBATE.

Y'know, we'd already pretty much finished. He didn't agree with my viewpoint, nor I his. So turn off the caps lock. And I'm talking about their console's ability to keep the consumers who have already bought it, the installed player base. Unless they're a hardcore Nintendo nut those people also want some third party titles. What are the top couple reasons devs cancelled a game, or didn't even try to make it for the Wii/Wii U? Or had to compromise like with the horrid Dead Rising: Chop Till You Drop?

You can cite the economic reasons why Nintendo didn't make a more powerful console, but I can look to articles where devs explain why they either dropped support altogether or pushed out a few hamstrung titles. It seems like I'm harping on the point but that situation hasn't changed since the time of the Wii or the Wii U. Third party stuff (especially if it's multi-platform) is their weakness, flat out. And that hurts the long term profitability because consumers stop buying games for the console, aside from first party stuff.

 

[Genma:TheDestroyer]

Who's still discussing the video? The only thing I'm curious about from that is the Skyrim footage.

 

[CyberWhale]

the wii came out in a perfect situation. it is before the smartphone that grabbed all the casual market, and a new gimmick to draw the kids and grandmas in. it had fun party/family games . but after that samrtphones came out and sweep everything.

Agree.

ninty thought they sitll can grab a share of the casual, by compromising a little on the hardcore fan. they failed miserably.

Partially agree. Casuals moved on to smartphones, but Nintendo also failed because of poor branding (I repeat, most of those casuals didn't even know that WiiU was a new device, they thought it was some kind of expensive controller) and the device was simply subpar (why buy an extra device that can't move more than 10 meters from your house to function when you already have something superior).

also don't agree if ninty released a real powerful console on part with their competitor they would still fail. it would still be successful (though not as much as the wii) or at least it wont be as shitty as it is now. alot of nintendo fans are angry and turn their back on them now. the one remains are the most ultra core fans that live and breathe nintendo

You probably had that opinion even before I showed you the facts/numbers. It still doesn't make sense - why would hardcore gamers, the same people that bought weaker Sony and newcomer M$ consoles suddenly change their mind and go back to Nintendo? During those previous two generations they discarded Nintendo as old, childish and thievish. During the current as casual. Why would they buy a new console from them when they were awaiting fan-favorites like Uncharted, Killzone, Halo and Gears of War? And more importantly, why would Nintendo risk with something they didn't have any success during the last decade or so, especially if you take into the account that high definition gaming like that requires a) that they sell consoles with initial loss of money and b) that games for that kind of platform require much larger investment?

In the end, I'm just going to ask you one question - do you really see Nintendo selling more units than Microsoft Xbox One's in this day and age? Neither do I.

Not going to waste anymore time on this, if you still haven't figured it out you probably never will, no matter how many Reasoning Attacks and/or Logic Potions I use on you.

P.S. just wanted to mention one more thing - the best proof that people are reacting to a better and more direct marketing this time around is the following fact...

Nintendo Wii U Trailer (E3 2011) / 5 years ago / 11,404,855 views
First Look at Nintendo Switch / 13 hours ago / 5,976,440 views



Nintendo already fucked it up almost 4 years ago by not releasing this instead of WiiU, let's hope they don't completely fuck this up by making stupid moves (read: not releasing enough games).

 

[CyberWhale]

I'm personally loving all of this wild speculation and discussion of a 3 minute video. Like, ya'll are getting mad.

We are mostly discussing causal relationship between Nintendo's previous decisions and their current unenviable position. Unfortunately, some people have accepted the most popular narrative spread around gaming circles, despite the fact that most of those conclusions lie on premises that don't make any sense when you look at available data.

 

[HoboForEternity]

What is with the fucking people today not cutting their fucking nails? Get a fucking nailclipper, you fucking hobo.

even i trim my nails

#NotAllHobos

 

[Higher Animal]

I'm going to say "Augmented Reality" one more time.

 

[Severian Silk]

A handheld that connects to TV is cool. But getting rid of cables increases latency. Plus, how do you add regular controllers for your friends?

It might be better to just have 2 devices (i.e. regular console and handheld) that can play the same games and share save games. This route might in fact be *cheaper* for Nintendo. But due to faulty psychology, most gamers would balk at this.

 

[HoboForEternity]

or i hope they would release stand alone tablet thing without the oversized charger. you cannot connect to TV and cut the price down. i would buy one if they do it, because it seems 3DS titles are coming out there too in the future.

 

[Archibald]

I don't think that it was even possible to release something like Switch 4 years ago. Now people are wondering how long battery will last, but then? It probably would have cost something like 500$ with battery life of 30 minutes.

Partially agree. Casuals moved on to smartphones, but Nintendo also failed because of poor branding (I repeat, most of those casuals didn't even know that WiiU was a new device, they thought it was some kind of expensive controller) and the device was simply subpar (why buy an extra device that can't move more than 10 meters from your house to function when you already have something superior).

Yeah, lots of people are missing this point. I remember reading lots of complaints from retailers that they are struggling to sell Wii U to casual audience since they either think that this is just an extra controller thing or simply upgraded version of Wii that they don't really need. Nintendo simply failed at marketing it.

Another problem was second screen on controller, it wasn't just that Wii U didn't have large enough base nor that it was weaker in technical aspects compared to its competitors. Problem was that Nintendo pushed out this idea of second screen as one of the main reasons why you should buy Wii U and what makes it different. So developers wouldn't be able to just port their game, they'd need to figure out how to utilize this second screen which was a problem. At the end even Nintendo themselves struggled to make a game that would utilize it in a significant manner and remain an enjoyable game.

 

[J_C]

Videogames, as a culture, are declining. In fifty years they might have 1% of the digital entertainment marketplace.

Would you elaborate on this a little? Videogames are getting more and more successfull and widespread. In fifty years it won't have 1% share of digital entertainment, it will take it over entirely.

Yeah, I wonder why don't nerds score better at the hottest ladies if that commercial is true?

They do. However, your inability to score has nothing to do with so-called "nerdiness".

You got me there. I think I go and kill myself now.