Development Info No Aliens RPG from Obsidian Confirmed

[Rosh]

MLMarkland: I'd stealth you the stealthin' stealth, but I already stealthed you the stealth in the other stealth. It doesn't stealth much to stealth that military stealths also have such a stealth for what they stealth. Oh my stealth! It's two stealths instead of one stealth that has absolutely stealth to do with stealth!

 

[MLMarkland]

MLMarkland: I'd stealth you the stealthin' stealth, but I already stealthed you the stealth in the other stealth. It doesn't stealth much to stealth that military stealths also have such a stealth for what they stealth. Oh my stealth! It's two stealths instead of one stealth that has absolutely stealth to do with stealth!

The last refuge of the intellectually crippled.

 

[Rosh]

The last refuge of the intellectually crippled.

And that is why Obsidian stealthed the game concepts to death.

 

[Chefe]

We can focus on making sure our design fits into a single word, or we can worry less about the word used to describe a thing and more on how that thing actually operates.

Please, don't. The memories of Oblivion are still too fresh in my mind.

 

[MLMarkland]

We can focus on making sure our design fits into a single word, or we can worry less about the word used to describe a thing and more on how that thing actually operates.

Please, don't. The memories of Oblivion are still too fresh in my mind.

But we should, right? Or Rosh will spend 3 hours on a Saturday night whining about the definitions of the words used to generally describe collections of game mechanics, because... well....

 

[Rosh]

But we should, right? Or Rosh will spend 3 hours on a Saturday night whining about the definitions of the words used to generally describe collections of game mechanics, because... well....

Because you, as a designer, couldn't bother to do better than a FPS developer.

And then Obsidian is <s>using</s> ripping off FPS and tactical mechanics for AP.

Wow...I'd seriously love to read the gigglefest the AP design docs promise to be. Oh, wait, you're not writing them. Damn, comedy gold missed, there!

 

[Chefe]

Rosh, calm down. This is getting ludicrous.

We can focus on making sure our design fits into a single word, or we can worry less about the word used to describe a thing and more on how that thing actually operates.

Please, don't. The memories of Oblivion are still too fresh in my mind.

But we should, right? Or Rosh will spend 3 hours on a Saturday night whining about the definitions of the words used to generally describe collections of game mechanics, because... well....

I think that if you're making a game for children, you should use the proper terms, lest they grow up and think the wrong things. If no proper terms exist, then your categories are too broad and need to be narrowed. If you are making a game for adults, the same rules apply, lest the players lose their sense of immersion. The only games I can think of that grouped all those things under stealth would be Morrowind and Oblivion, but the stealth connotation there was more of a blanket term, as security, sneaking, and such were all represented as separate skills while playing.

 

[MLMarkland]

If no proper terms exist, then your categories are too broad and need to be narrowed.

I think that's probably true in most cases. Evasion was the word I chose to more accurately describe the contents of the stealth system in Aliens, but that is not a term that is in common usage in game developer lexicon, so the shorthand of stealth generally sufficed.

 

[Rosh]

I think that's probably true in most cases. Evasion was the word I chose to more accurately describe the contents of the stealth system in Aliens, but that is not a term that is in common usage in game developer lexicon,

Unfortunately, "stealth" describes a fairly concise number of activities, none of which include a pulse rifle or orbital bombardment.

Try again, Spanky. Like you should have tried the first time around.

so the shorthand of stealth generally sufficed.

Obsidian: Anything not involving speech = "stealth"?

 

[Chefe]

If no proper terms exist, then your categories are too broad and need to be narrowed.

I think that's probably true in most cases. Evasion was the word I chose to more accurately describe the contents of the stealth system in Aliens, but that is not a term that is in common usage in game developer lexicon, so the shorthand of stealth generally sufficed.

I guess it doesn't really matter now that the game no longer exists, but it was fun reading you and Rosh go at it for a little while. I just hope you realize all the backlash is because of the general dumbing down of the industry, and naming conventions are all we really have left. Once they start to go, there is literally *nothing* left for us to hold on to. If it was 1998 no one would care in the least if you even went so far as to group pistols under stealth gameplay.

 

[MLMarkland]

I think that's probably true in most cases. Evasion was the word I chose to more accurately describe the contents of the stealth system in Aliens, but that is not a term that is in common usage in game developer lexicon,

Unfortunately, "stealth" describes a fairly concise number of activities, none of which include a pulse rifle or orbital bombardment.

Try again, Spanky. Like you should have tried the first time around.

so the shorthand of stealth generally sufficed.

Obsidian: Anything not involving speech = "stealth"?

Are you drunk?

The stealth-like/evasion gameplay never had anything to do with orbital bombardment.

I referenced orbital bombardment as a means to demonstrate the inadequacy of our proposed label for a set of gameplay (the laughably useless xeno defense system).

Also, I don't know why you keep referencing Obsidian. I don't work for Obsidian, I work for another developer and I am speaking for myself, not for Obsidian.

 

[MLMarkland]

If no proper terms exist, then your categories are too broad and need to be narrowed.

I think that's probably true in most cases. Evasion was the word I chose to more accurately describe the contents of the stealth system in Aliens, but that is not a term that is in common usage in game developer lexicon, so the shorthand of stealth generally sufficed.

I guess it doesn't really matter now that the game no longer exists, but it was fun reading you and Rosh go at it for a little while. I just hope you realize all the backlash is because of the general dumbing down of the industry, and naming conventions are all we really have left. Once they start to go, there is literally *nothing* left for us to hold on to. If it was 1998 no one would care in the least if you even went so far as to group pistols under stealth gameplay.

I understand the sentiment.

However, I don't think dumbing down gameplay is the same as "designing gameplay that is generally too complex to fit a standard industry term."

That's why I view these two threads with some humor. We were attempting to do the opposite of dumbing down gameplay and now Rosh is screaming because everything didn't fit into a single category.

 

[Rosh]

Are you drunk?

Are you retarded?

The stealth-like/evasion gameplay never had anything to do with orbital bombardment.

Yet you cite orbital bombardment as to why a better term couldn't be used in place of stealth.

I referenced orbital bombardment as a means to demonstrate the inadequacy of our proposed label for a set of gameplay (the laughably useless xeno defense system).

As if cramming stealth into everything it's not is any less of a laugh riot. Seriously, if you spent as much effort with your initial design concepts as you do on your excuses, you might have come up with something appropriate.

Also, I don't know why you keep referencing Obsidian. I don't work for Obsidian, I work for another developer and I am speaking for myself, not for Obsidian.

You're defending it, and supposedly you wrote it, and the circus there is partially at fault for being unable to think of anything better. That is unless I'm mis-reading:

I wrote the original design for the "Stealth" component of Aliens gameplay and we in fact discussed a number of times using another word to describe the elements of the gameplay because the word stealth was a poor descriptor.

Even you admit it so, but apparently the team was too stupid to think of anything else but bastardize an irrelevant term into something they could easily think around.

We were attempting to do the opposite of dumbing down gameplay and now Rosh is screaming because everything didn't fit into a single category.

You lying sack of shit. Your team in fact were the ones dumbing down a variety of concepts in order to fit it into a term you could easily speak about, a term that had absolutely nothing to do with the concepts therein.

It is BECAUSE you are trying to fit all those concepts into a single category with an abused term that I'm objecting.

 

[Chefe]

If no proper terms exist, then your categories are too broad and need to be narrowed.

I think that's probably true in most cases. Evasion was the word I chose to more accurately describe the contents of the stealth system in Aliens, but that is not a term that is in common usage in game developer lexicon, so the shorthand of stealth generally sufficed.

I guess it doesn't really matter now that the game no longer exists, but it was fun reading you and Rosh go at it for a little while. I just hope you realize all the backlash is because of the general dumbing down of the industry, and naming conventions are all we really have left. Once they start to go, there is literally *nothing* left for us to hold on to. If it was 1998 no one would care in the least if you even went so far as to group pistols under stealth gameplay.

I understand the sentiment.

However, I don't think dumbing down gameplay is the same as "designing gameplay that is generally too complex to fit a standard industry term."

That's why I view these two threads with some humor. We were attempting to do the opposite of dumbing down gameplay and now Rosh is screaming because everything didn't fit into a single category.

I don't think we're on the same page.

But it's late, and I'm tired, so I'm probably just not explaining my position well.

Suffice it to say... eh, something nice.

 

[MLMarkland]

Yet you cite orbital bombardment as to why a better term couldn't be used in place of stealth.

No I did not cite orbital bombardment as to why a better term could not be used in place of stealth.

I did cite orbital bombardment as a reason why your alternate terms were not any more precise for describing the system of mechanics in question.

Even you admit it so, but apparently the team was too stupid to think of anything else but bastardize an irrelevant term into something they could easily think around.

No. You are saying it is irrelevant. It is not an irrelevant term, it is an analogous term we used to describe an attempt to create a unique set of gameplay mechanics that were: 1) innovative; 2) fun; 3) RPG-focused; 4) IP-inspired.

We were attempting to create something that was not a retread of existing gameplay because creating something new in this regard was necessary to the satisfaction of the goal of creating an Aliens RPG.

You lying sack of shit. Your team in fact were the ones dumbing down a variety of concepts in order to fit it into a term you could easily speak about, a term that had absolutely nothing to do with the concepts therein.

It is BECAUSE you are trying to fit all those concepts into a single category with an abused term that I'm objecting.

How do you know this?

What on Earth are you talking about?

I'm an RPG fan who was a member of this forum long before I worked at Obsidian. I tried making an extraordinarily complex mod of NWN2 that was mainly inspired by Fallout and Planescape Torment (granted I failed).

I spent most of my time at Obsidian trying to design compelling RPG gameplay that was not dumbed down and at the same time was loyal to the Aliens franchise. I spent the rest of my time at Obsidian as a producer trying to help other people do the same thing.

I now spend my time as a producer trying to help another development team create interesting, unique and innovative games that rely greatly on the classics of the past for design motivation, rather than the alleged requirements of next-gen console titles.

 

[Rosh]

No I did not cite orbital bombardment as to why a better term could not be used in place of stealth.

I did cite orbital bombardment as a reason why your alternate terms were not any more precise for describing the system of mechanics in question.

Again: As if stealth was any better. Even "special operations" would have suited it far better than using a wholly irrelevant term.

No. You are saying it is irrelevant. It is not an irrelevant term, it is an analogous term we used to describe an attempt to create a unique set of gameplay mechanics that were: 1) innovative; 2) fun; 3) RPG-focused; 4) IP-inspired.

We were attempting to create something that was not a retread of existing gameplay because creating something new in this regard was necessary to the satisfaction of the goal of creating an Aliens RPG.

Yes, you used an existing game design concept to describe concepts wholly irrelevant to that game design concept, and then you're trying to defend your child no matter how much it goes into a supermarket and shits itself.

Then you say it's not irrelevant, using some really stupid shit like:

That's why I view these two threads with some humor. We were attempting to do the opposite of dumbing down gameplay and now Rosh is screaming because everything didn't fit into a single category.

When in fact it's the exact opposite. You were dumbing down design concepts into a single term that relates to something completely different, and I was objecting to it.

Thank you for the insight into Obsidian's development process, which was my real goal in this.

 

[MLMarkland]

Yes, you used an existing game design concept to describe concepts wholly irrelevant to that game design concept, and then you're trying to defend your child no matter how much it goes into a supermarket and shits itself.

Then you say it's not irrelevant.

Thank you for the insight into Obsidian's development process, which was my real goal in this.

A system of game mechanics designed to provide for a meaningful option for evasion gameplay chosen by the player in favor of combat-focused gameplay can reasonably be called a stealth system.

If you prefer to call it a xeno defense system, that's fine. I think that description has less utility.

 

[Rosh]

A system of game mechanics designed to provide for a meaningful option for evasion gameplay chosen by the player in favor of combat-focused gameplay can reasonably be called a stealth system.

See what I did there? Hmmm... Evasion mechanics? Sounds better than bastardizing something into what it isn't, when that concept has long already been quite established in the industry.

Again, thank you for the insight into Obsidian's, and your own, development process.

If you prefer to call it a xeno defense system, that's fine. I think that description has less utility.

Well, I suppose on that note it's good for you and Obsidian that this died before it was released.

Even the mass gaming media would have had a field day once your "stealth" came out into public in some form. Or were you hoping the marketing department would have come up with something better for you? I do realize that lately marketing departments call the shots when it comes to development, but I didn't realize it went THAT far.

 

[MLMarkland]

A system of game mechanics designed to provide for a meaningful option for evasion gameplay chosen by the player in favor of combat-focused gameplay can reasonably be called a stealth system.

See what I did there? Hmmm... Evasion mechanics? Sounds better than bastardizing something into what it isn't, when that concept has long already been quite established in the industry.

Again, thank you for the insight into Obsidian's, and your own, development process.

If you prefer to call it a xeno defense system, that's fine. I think that description has less utility.

Well, I suppose on that note it's good for you and Obsidian that this died before it was released.

Even the mass gaming media would have had a field day once your "stealth" came out into public in some form. Or were you hoping the marketing department would have come up with something better for you? I do realize that lately marketing departments call the shots when it comes to development, but I didn't realize it went THAT far.

Your lack of understanding regarding how things actually work is forgivable.

 

[Rosh]

Your lack of understanding regarding how things actually work is forgivable.

Your ignorance and bastardization, however, is not.

 

[Gay-Lussac]

Stealyth fucked my BABY!!!!!!!!

 

[MLMarkland]

Stealyth fucked my BABY!!!!!!!!

 

[Fat Dragon]

Thread delivers, MOAR.

 

[Rosh]

Ah, another keen insight into the development level and processes.

Intelligence and arguments cued from the fans who could possibly make 4chan seem coherent and rational.

 

[MLMarkland]

Stealyth fucked my BABY!!!!!!!!