No magic VS low magic VS high magic : low tech VS high tec.

[Cryomancer]

magic system, especially demon summoning. It can literally kill you, or worse.

Hellfire warlocks on 3.5e could lose control over his summoned demon.

I like low magic games like the Witcher, Gothic/Risen etc

Witcher has elves, mutants, monster hunters, sorcerers... And Gothic has Gods literally interfering in the real world. You have cities ruled black magicians, chosen one of Gods, fire mages that can make rain fire... Gothic is mid magic.

-----------------

I remember when I saw a guy who adapted 5e into low magic settings. There are a lot of changes.

• Only clerics and warlocks. Clerics channel the power of Gods. Warlocks bargain with outsider forces for knowledge. Magic is not a mundane thing, so no Wizards or Druids.
• No spell slots, instead casting a spell deals CON damage to the caster equal to the spell level and it requires a long rest to heal.
• You start as a lv 0 commoner, martial class levels are easy to get but to get a level of cleric, you need to take vows and do the tests in a church. To level as a warlock, you need to summon your patron and bargain with him for knowledge. No good patrons exist and the price can be gold, slaves, memory(which reduces your WIS score).
• After few levels as a cleric(5), the cleric needs to talk to the high priest for promotion challenges
• Warlocks needs to bargain for knowledge after each level up and there are tables and rolls for each level up.
• A lot of spells got changed and can critically fail and a fireball can explore in your own hands for eg.
• Magical items, including scrolls and wands are 20x more expensive.

If I find the PDF links, i will post. Are very interesting.

 

[Yaz]

Low Tech, Low Magic.

You can graft various runes onto your skin with each having a small detrimental effect on your physical condition. On their own they can provide some bonuses/skills/resistances/passives, but combinations of runes give pure magic abilities. The process of becoming a Lich is long, requires several rare components and the state comes with its own negatives. Priest-like Casters, Inquisitors, Arcane Knights, Magic Barbarians, Ninja Thieves, Pirates... they can all benefit from a rune, or not. Down to the player how they implement that and use the tools available to them. You could, after all, should you choose so, be a fairly well-built and athletic Necromancer that chooses only the finest of bones to raise as servants, because why not?

 

[fantadomat]

Lets be honest here,the games that actually have high magic are very few,like Age of wonders. D&D is for sure not a high magic lol. Having a pompous description doesn't change the fact that its spells just do some damage in the end.

 

[Cryomancer]

Having a pompous description doesn't change the fact that its spells just do some damage in the end.

Most spells like raise Island are hard to adapt to a CRPG but on BG2/PFKM, CRPG's, you can stop time, make meteors rain, shape the reality with wish, ascend to Godhood, shapeshift into a colossal dragon, assume incorporeal form, cause tsunamis in a desert(...) everything is very high magic.

If this is not high magic, what is?

Same with starfinder. A Technomancer can

• Create a Battle Junkbot
• Control Gravity
  
• Seal an planet against space travel with Planar Barrier
• Terraform an planet making a region of even Mercury into a snowy place
  
• Interplanetary Teleport to travel between planets
  
• Disintegrate enemies to vaporize then
  
• Shape the reality with wish

 

[Bastardchops]

Didn't vote because if the quality of the story/characters are high enough I don't really care. That being said if it were say a historical setting and they just put magic in it I tend not to like that, since I'd prefer they get the feel of the period right. One example of this which isn't an rpg is the TV show The Terror about HMS Terror and HMS Erebus crossing the Northwest Passage. Both of those ships went missing and remains of the crew found years later showed signs of starvation and cannibalism. In the show they instead have the mean hunted by some beast monster thing summoned by Inuits. I think it would have better without that magical element.

Also Game of Thrones I tend to think would be better without the magic.

 

[good fucking shit happen]

In the show they instead have the mean hunted by some beast monster thing summoned by Inuits. I think it would have better without that magical element.

Yeah, the shaved polar bear was gay and took away from the show. They could just have had a real polar bear.

 

[adddeed]

magic system, especially demon summoning. It can literally kill you, or worse.

Hellfire warlocks on 3.5e could lose control over his summoned demon.

I like low magic games like the Witcher, Gothic/Risen etc

Witcher has elves, mutants, monster hunters, sorcerers... And Gothic has Gods literally interfering in the real world. You have cities ruled black magicians, chosen one of Gods, fire mages that can make rain fire... Gothic is mid magic.

I guess they seem low magic to me since spells are limited and most of the combat is melee with swords.
Especially Witcher which i can only 6 spells total, or playing melee character in Gothic.
Also their worlds seem more grounded in reality.

 

[Cryomancer]

Also Game of Thrones I tend to think would be better without the magic.

Or if scorpions effectiveness vs dragons was consistent.

In one episode, is like a freaking 14.5x114mm anti tank rifle hiting a dragon above clouds flying at "cruise speed" with no problem. In other, is like a BB gun that can't hit anything, even when the dragon is stationary.

guess they seem low magic to me since spells are limited

Spells on D&D can produce higher effect than in Harry Potter. Mainly in a Netherese campaign. The deadliest spell on HP is Avada kedavra which kills a target, is equivalent in power to a Finger of death(7th tier magic). Meanwhile, on 2e, wail of the banshee can be considered an AoE Avada Kedavra. And this not talking about pre Karsus fall spells. There are spells that can create an Vulcan, slay an entire army...

Especially Witcher which i can only 6 spells total, or playing melee character in Gothic.

You on Witcher play as a non magic user that has a tiny magical capability to supplement his melee combat. See what casters can do there.

As for gothic

 

[Darkzone]

Dorks like to play nerds with long white beards and pointy hats, that are running through libraries with their gay little friends and saying shit like: You shall not pass.
Chads like to play chads, that meet on their adventures busty, barely clad women, while swinging two handed swords or axes against grotesque creatures, like the long bearded dorks with pointy hats.
Therefore Sword & Sorcery (low tech and low magic) is the only true genre for true men.
Dorks:

Spoiler

Chads:

Spoiler

Dorks meet on their Adventures:

Spoiler

Chads meet on their Adventures:

Spoiler

I rest my case.

 

[Bohrain]

I guess they seem low magic to me since spells are limited and most of the combat is melee with swords.
Especially Witcher which i can only 6 spells total, or playing melee character in Gothic.
Also their worlds seem more grounded in reality.

Witcher setting is mid by this definition. Witchers are only taught to use few spells that are basically just cantrips that can be done with the motion of a single hand to supplement fighting with a 2-handed sword. Magic exists in the world and virtually everyone has encountered at least one magical creature in their life, but not necessarily any magic users. From what I remember from the books, anyone can learn magic but the ones who end up getting the education for it tend to be ugly second daughters of nobles who aren't fit for lucrative marriage.

 

[fantadomat]

Dorks like to play nerds with long white beards and pointy hats, that are running through libraries with their gay little friends and saying shit like: You shall not pass.
Chads like to play chads, that meet on their adventures busty, barely clad women, while swinging two handed swords or axes against grotesque creatures, like the long bearded dorks with pointy hats.
Therefore Sword & Sorcery (low tech and low magic) is the only true genre for true men.
Dorks:

Spoiler

Chads:

Spoiler

Dorks meet on their Adventures:

Spoiler

Chads meet on their Adventures:

Spoiler

I rest my case.

Ahhh actually chads fuck such cunts in real life and don't need some shitty make believe games to do it lol!

 

[Cryomancer]

white beards and pointy hats, that are running through libraries with their gay little friends and saying shit like: You shall not pass.
Chads like to play chads, that meet on their adventures busty, barely clad women, while swinging two handed swords or axes against grotesque creatures, like the long bearded dorks with pointy hats.

Actually, most successful "warriors" IRL fought at range. See Battle of Agincourt, where archers outnumbered by many times, with no cavalry, starving and with degraded equipment defeated the French. With the advent of modern weaponry, Simo Hayha killed hundreds of man with an rifle.

Also, there are magicians who fight on CQB on fantasy. Mostly shapeshifters. But there casters who fight at melee even without becoming a werewolf, like Eldritch Glaive builds for 3.5e WLK.

 

[Gangrelrumbler]

I chose high tech, high magic. Adventure stories often rely on outlandish locations and creatures to charm the audience. Both fantasy and science fiction provide plenty of both. The worst you can do is to make fantasy feel mundane. Why should game designers limit themselves in any way? Would grenades make the game more interesting? Put them right in. Would exploring a derelict space-ship be more exciting if it there was a Lich hiding somewhere? Let him join the fun. The only problem is to make the world feel consistent.

EDIT:
Although I wouldn't call KoTOR exactly high magic. Jedi seems very limited in what they can do compared to Dungeons and Dragons. They peak at super strong chain-lightning and even things like basic summoning or teleportation are beyond their range of abilities.

 

[Silly Germans]

I don't like games where magic feels like the equivalent of a rocket launcher with infinite ammo. Magic should always have an arcane, occult, cryptic, mystical side to it. Without these aspects it feels just like re-branded technology, which beats the purpose. Scarcity, most often associated with a low magic settings, typically helps with that. But any level of magic is fine if you manage to capture these attributes.

 

[Dodo1610]

Mid technology mid/high magic
I Just want a fantasy RPG with a late 1800s setting Magic and technology should be mixed like Paldins in enchanted armour with shotguns and Dragons armed with Maxim MG teams.

 

[Cryomancer]

Although I wouldn't call KoTOR exactly high magic. Jedi seems very limited in what they can do compared to Dungeons and Dragons. They peak at super strong chain-lightning and even things like basic summoning or teleportation are beyond their range of abilities.

Depends if is "canon" or "legends".

Sith alchemy was able to create life and monstruous creatures like leviathan. Some powers are on par with Karsus most powerful spells. Most of this high powers are lost knowledge but here is a interesting video. Combining force lightning with dark side rituals, is possible to mess with the space time and destroy planets. A thing which not even Karsus could acomplishes.

 

[Darkzone]

white beards and pointy hats, that are running through libraries with their gay little friends and saying shit like: You shall not pass.
Chads like to play chads, that meet on their adventures busty, barely clad women, while swinging two handed swords or axes against grotesque creatures, like the long bearded dorks with pointy hats.

Actually, most successful "warriors" IRL fought at range. See Battle of Agincourt, where archers outnumbered by many times, with no cavalry, starving and with degraded equipment defeated the French. With the advent of modern weaponry, Simo Hayha killed hundreds of man with an rifle.

Actually no. Simo killed in the best case around 730-830 enemy soldiers. (Don't get me wrong here that is quite the achievement and i honor him as a true son and soldier of Soumi. So a mighty hail to the white death !) But Saitoo Musashiboo Benkei killed with a sword way over 1300 Samurais and Soldiers, with around 300 in his last stand on the Gojo bridge. And he was still standing while he was already dead, killed by a hail of arrows shot by an entire dispatched unit, because nobody stood a chance against him in melee.
At Agincourt the battle was won because of the archers and the stakes, that have stopped the charge attack of the french knights. But most of the kills were not with the longbow, but in done in melee with daggers and swords.

Also, there are magicians who fight on CQB on fantasy. Mostly shapeshifters. But there casters who fight at melee even without becoming a werewolf, like Eldritch Glaive builds for 3.5e WLK.

And they are killed by the Barbarians who have a disdain for their foul unnatural demonic powers.

 

[curds]

When in comes to magic in fantasy settings, I prefer it one of two ways:

1. Magic is everywhere and is used by everyone for day-to-day activities.
2. Literally almost nobody knows about/can use magic.

Rubs me the wrong way in a lot of fantasy (looking at you, D&D) where everyone can technically learn magic, there are mages everywhere, but for some reason people choose to be a fighter or some shit. Because no matter which way you look at it hurling a ball of fire over a great distance is going to be better than a sword.

 

[Cryomancer]

Rubs me the wrong way in a lot of fantasy (looking at you, D&D) where everyone can technically learn magic, there are mages everywhere, but for some reason people choose to be a fighter or some shit. Because no matter which way you look at it hurling a ball of fire over a great distance is going to be better than a sword.

You need high INT to be a Wizard.

But IMO D&D should make martial classes more supernatural to make then more interesting. Imagine a high level barbarian shouting and making enemies who fail in a save flee in terror, or insta die, with regeneration, able to decapitate enemies or cleave decapitate, move extremely faster than any human, throw enemies dozens of meters allway. And at very high levels, just like the wizard can shape the reality with wish, an barbarian able to cut/crush/pierce the space time itself

At Agincourt the battle was won because of the archers and the stakes, that have stopped the charge attack of the french knights

Source? Anyway, if the longbowman was not extremely effective, nobody would use it. Takes long years to fully train an longbowman.

Bows aren't like in 99,9% of video games, a weapon for weaklings. I an 6' 1" tall(1,84m) with broad shoulders, work out every day(except when is hot as hell) and can't do more than 3 accurate shots fully drawing an longbow(only rented the weapon, I only own a crossbow). The 4th and 5th shot was " 3/4 drawed", you need a hell a lot of strength to fully draw a 180 lbf warbow. It has a heavy toll even in your bones " Considerable practice was required to produce the swift and effective combat shooting required. Skeletons of longbow archers are recognisably affected, with enlarged left arms and often osteophytes on left wrists, left shoulders and right fingers.[23]" source

The unique fantasy game which treated archers with the sell deserved respect is IMO dragon's dogma. Archery is so great in that game. Magic is not that great. I mean, is just press 2 buttons and pray to not be interrupted. And Magick Archer is better on melee, immolation + dagger fast attacks is so deadly.

 

[Gangrelrumbler]

Depends if is "canon" or "legends".

Sith alchemy was able to create life and monstruous creatures like leviathan. Some powers are on par with Karsus most powerful spells. Most of this high powers are lost knowledge but here is a interesting video. Combining force lightning with dark side rituals, is possible to mess with the space time and destroy planets. A thing which not even Karsus could acomplishes.

I meant KoTOR games. Though since you've mentioned destroying planets then both Nihilus's and Scion's powers could be considered high magic. Though it didn't really matter in the gameplay and powers available to players were pretty limited compared to your standard DnD adaptation.

 

[curds]

You need high INT to be a Wizard.

Sure, but that's just mechanics, I was talking about setting. Unless every fighter, rogue and commoner in the D&D multiverse is stupid?

 

[Darkzone]

At Agincourt the battle was won because of the archers and the stakes, that have stopped the charge attack of the french knights

Source? Anyway, if the longbowman was not extremely effective, nobody would use it. Takes long years to fully train an longbowman.

Bows aren't like in 99,9% of video games, a weapon for weaklings. I an 6' 1" tall(1,84m) with broad shoulders, work out every day(except when is hot as hell) and can't do more than 3 accurate shots fully drawing an longbow(only rented the weapon, I only own a crossbow). The 4th and 5th shot was " 3/4 drawed", you need a hell a lot of strength to fully draw a 180 lbf warbow. It has a heavy toll even in your bones " Considerable practice was required to produce the swift and effective combat shooting required. Skeletons of longbow archers are recognisably affected, with enlarged left arms and often osteophytes on left wrists, left shoulders and right fingers.[23]" source

The unique fantasy game which treated archers with the sell deserved respect is IMO dragon's dogma. Archery is so great in that game. Magic is not that great. I mean, is just press 2 buttons and pray to not be interrupted. And Magick Archer is better on melee, immolation + dagger fast attacks is so deadly.

Sources are everywhere, you can just google it, but since you asked: https://www.britannica.com/event/Battle-of-Agincourt . I mostly use the Osprey book series and i watch videos about such battles. The Osprey book has been released 1991 and it is also overestimating the effectiveness of Longbows, because newer test have shown that the longbows even with bodkin arrows were not able (mostly) to penetrate the steel breastplates of and helmets of the knights. As example Tod's Workshop:

Spoiler

Also i have not added that the wet muddy ground quite helped the english side, upon which the french knights could not really charge that fast.
I know how hard it is to draw a 160-200 lbs longbow, because is have done it for the show effect (with a caliper release), but i'm not a archer. And yes training forms and strengthens the bones, that is why i am annoyed with the "woman viking" theory, because it would be quite easy to prove and disprove this by measuring the density and form of the bones. But nobody is doing it, which means they are willingly omitting the facts to sustain a "progressive" theory. But longbows were shoot at long ranges (up to 250 m, record 315 m) and rarely point blank (15 m) and therefore bows for closer and individual combat would had a lesser draw weight like the Yumi (around 100-200 lbs with avg. 120 lbs) or hunting bows of around 70-90 lbs, which allows you to shoot more often and aim better. Archery was very important on the battlefield until it was replaced with pistols and arquebus, therefore it deserves its respect. Will look into Dragon's Dogma if it is on Steam or gog sale.

 

[Cryomancer]

, because newer test have shown that the longbows even with bodkin arrows were not able (mostly) to penetrate the steel breastplates of and helmets of the knights.

Not every single French soldier had high quality breastplate and arms, legs are often less armored. They would't be killed with an arrow on the leg but it would make then far less "combat effective". If an bodkin arrow fired from a 150+ lbf warbow could't pierce an armor, an sword is worthless against that armor. Maces and mallets are far better.

"Modern historians are divided on how effective the longbows would have been against plate armour of the time. Modern test and contemporary accounts conclude that arrows could not penetrate the better quality steel armour, which became available to knights and men-at-arms of fairly modest means by the middle of the 14th century, but could penetrate the poorer quality wrought iron armour.[77][78][79][80] Rogers suggested that the longbow could penetrate a wrought iron breastplate at short range and penetrate the thinner armour on the limbs even at 220 yards (200 m). He considered a knight in the best-quality steel armour invulnerable to an arrow on the breastplate or top of the helmet, but vulnerable to shots hitting the limbs, particularly at close range.[81] In any case, to protect themselves as much as possible from the arrows, the French had to lower their visors and bend their helmeted heads to avoid being shot in the face, as the eye- and air-holes in their helmets were among the weakest points in the armour. This head-lowered position restricted their breathing and their vision. Then they had to walk a few hundred yards (metres) through thick mud and a press of comrades while wearing armour weighing 50–60 pounds (23–27 kg), gathering sticky clay all the way. Increasingly, they had to walk around or over fallen comrades" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Agincourt

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That said, what allowed humans to fight far stronger and powerful creatures was .... RANGED weapons. Javelins and Bows mostly. Without ranged weaponry, humans would't be the dominant force on the planet. There are a lot of people who hunt dangerous animals with firearms, bows and even javelin but IDK any guy who used an sword to hunt an Bear and come back to tell the story.

magic is based on the Fundamental Interactions of the Universe as know by modern science:

- Gravity

- Eletromagnetism

- Weak Force

- Strong Force

On Starfinder, magic is not based on it, but a technomancer can control the gravity, and disintegrate the "atomic links" with disintegrate spell

 

[huskarls]

there was space travel in wizardry and magical creatures in time splitters

 

[fantadomat]

Buahahahaha just noticed that star wars is high magic lol. Since when is being able to have sparkle effect on your fingers and running faster for 30 seconds a high magic lol ?!