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[bryce777]

"The positive is that roleplaying is much better with only one character." You can kill the orc on the left first, or the orc on the right.

Both the games you mention actually do have a party, though. You just don't create all the characters but it's in the ultima style where you pick them up various places.

Except unlike ultima you can't have a twelve year old boy or sherry the mouse join your party.

 

[LlamaGod]

sherry the mouse is better then all of NWN

period.

 

[obediah]

"The positive is that roleplaying is much better with only one character." You can kill the orc on the left first, or the orc on the right.

Fair enough, "... CAN BE much better ...". By definition there is more opportunity for roleplaying with a focused single character. Maybe you can pioneer rolesplaying games though - think of the dialogue tree nightmare that would be.

Both the games you mention actually do have a party, though. You just don't create all the characters but it's in the ultima style where you pick them up various places.

But in both games, you are roleplaying a single person as opposed to a party (ala goldbox goodness). Combat-aside, I think most (there are always exceptions) computer and console rpgs can be clearly categorized into "you are characters" or "you are a character". The general trend has been from the former to the latter - we used to see more games about a dire threat and a brave group of adventurers, and now we're seeing more games about the trials a special person must face.

Combat is generally separate enough from the story that you can still allow control of the party (ala planescape, bg) or not (ala fallout NWN). Some people feel strongly that controlling the whole party in combat destroys the immersion of a single character. Other feel strongly that it is a bother to have to control more than one person. Reasonable people are frustrated by crappy ai, and enjoy the mix of tactical combat and character focused roleplaying (perhaps I'm a bit biased ). A good game is hindered much less by easy combat than by frustrating combat.

 

[Deacdo]

Some people feel strongly that controlling the whole party in combat destroys the immersion of a single character. Other feel strongly that it is a bother to have to control more than one person.

I never really understood that. You'd think that there's enough things that would destroy the immersion in an RPG before you got to: "OMFG! The chap using a big sword did what I told him to do! Immersion iz cRuShed!"

Reasonable people are frustrated by crappy ai, and enjoy the mix of tactical combat and character focused roleplaying (perhaps I'm a bit biased ). A good game is hindered much less by easy combat than by frustrating combat.

Yup. Though, for the majority of RPGs, I'd replace "frustrating" with "dull and repetitive".

 

[Section8]

I never really understood that. You'd think that there's enough things that would destroy the immersion in an RPG before you got to: "OMFG! The chap using a big sword did what I told him to do! Immersion iz cRuShed!"

It depends on implementation. Although I prefer AI controlled companions, I don't have enough faith in the industry as a whole to implement AI that is up to scratch. On the other hand, full control should always have have certain caveats, or outright refusals.

To use D&D as an example, if I recruit a paladin and then tell him to attack an innocent villager, he should refuse to do so, and even adjust his standing negatively toward me for asking him to perform such a dreadful act. It's incredibly easy to break just about every personality in Baldur's Gate, even unintentionally.

This is the point where somebody steps up and says "Well, you shouldn't tell a paladin to kill kids!" but fuck that, I'm roleplaying my character, I don't want to babysit the idiot personalities the developer has provided me. Asking myself "What would Minsc do?" gives me the willies.

 

[drexciya]

2. Sleep is a will save. Which, if you forget, a warrior sucks at.

Of course, you forget useful level 1 spells stretch beyond sleep. Magic missle is probably one of the most uselsss offensive spell a level 1 wizard could memorize. The fact you think it's useful proves you have no idea what you are talking about.

Isn't Daze a Level 0 spell with rather good potential against fighters as well? In stunned condition a Fighter is pretty easy to pick off as well as under the effect of Sleep. I would use a bow or crossbow (somewhat overpowered in NWN I believe), because you get a Dex bonus to hit, which is more likely than a Strength bonus.

 

[LlamaGod]

smart warriors know enough to raise their will save because it's basically your defense against magic.

 

[Volourn]

"smart warriors know enough to raise their will save because it's basically your defense against magic."

Yeah, because at level 1 they'll have plenty of oppurtunities to do this. Hahaha. Munchkin.

 

[Section8]

Iron Will?

 

[Volourn]

Yeah, because warriors are gonna take that feat when they could be busy taking power attack for cleave as well as weapon focus or a host of other feats. I would say less than 10% of fighters take a feat like iron will at 1st level. Of course, even if a fighter does, a wziard can simply take spell focus (enchantment) to basically nullify it. R00fles!

 

[Jon]

Some people feel strongly that controlling the whole party in combat destroys the immersion of a single character. Other feel strongly that it is a bother to have to control more than one person.

I never really understood that. You'd think that there's enough things that would destroy the immersion in an RPG before you got to: "OMFG! The chap using a big sword did what I told him to do! Immersion iz cRuShed!"

Not to mention that the retarded AI as in NWN tends to stretch believability quite a bit...It seems reasonable that a bunch of combat capable characters would make smart decisions during a fight and if the AI can't deliver this behaviour then why bother? Maybe NPCs will refuse to fight if you decide to massacre some innocents or run away if they are frightened but chosing the right action during combat should imho be the player choice. Anyway it adds strategy to the game if you have multiple attackers.