Oblivion? Nah thanks!

[Twinfalls]

What is with all the gratuituously puerile pederasty/paedophilia fetishism running rampant on this board? Is it meant to shock?

 

[bryce777]

What is with all the gratuituously puerile pederasty/paedophilia fetishism running rampant on this board? Is it meant to shock?

Pedophilia is the new gay.

 

[obediah]

It's not my fault the little shit was stalking me. I just got sick of him and told him to "stay here", and he's been there ever since. All I have to eat at my place are poison apples, so I guess he isn't hungry. Everytime I come home, he's all excited that he happened to run into the arena champion.

Over at my manor, things are much more fun. I like to spend my evenings crouching on the balcony shooting every mother fucker that moves. I'm not sure there's anyone left in that town by now.

 

[kris]

What is with all the gratuituously puerile pederasty/paedophilia fetishism running rampant on this board? Is it meant to shock?

It is to convince the RPG prdoucers to put kids in the game. Very convincing.

 

[bryce777]

I have to admit the "posing nude corpses" aspect of oblivion is intriguing to me.

O to the b to the livin large, on the scene to kill your dreams I's da man in charge.

p to the e to the d to the o, little kiddies corpses all stacked in a row.

To bad this motherfucker an essential npc, or I'd wack his ass and use hid body in my corpse fort lavatry

 

[ANDS!]

If it takes mods and work-arounds to make the game playable, what are you paying Bethesda for?

How many people can design this game on their own? Right.

And the combat?? it sucks. Is ARCADE. You have ZERO strategy. Sigh I want the TURN BASED combat of Fallout! or at least a real-time but with a bit of strategy like the other RPG (Everquest for example).

What level are you? If youre a low level fighting rats and zombies - probably not going to be a huge challange in beating some of these monters. Higher level monsters however - the ones wielding Daedric weapons, and spamming Clanfear summons - they might give you a bit of a go.

Combat is hardly - click smash. Sure you can do that - if you have a high enough fatigue level and do great damage with weapons. Not all character creations are like that though.

I know the saving trick to re-create the character and I used it already. But is a JOKE? I don't think I ever saw ANY RPG, where I had to use a TRICK to re-start the game without repeating a long part...!!

How many games even NEED to have this? Most games arent designed like OB and hand you youre characters - so this really isnt a valid critique.

Well I've already uninstalled it. Was playing trying to discover more, then got so bored to go around "fighting" and speaking with everyone (all NPC without a soul) trying to find clues for the quests...

If you had to search for clues for the quests - then maybe this wasnt the game for you. Almost to a fault - the game really isnt that hard in telling you what to do for the quests.

The Daedra have no survival instincts whatsoever, they home in on your character like suicide bombers, I'm trying to see where the thought went into this game, where's the ecological balance in this other Realm, where's the AI controlling these critters?

So - the enemy AI should run AWAY from you once their health gets low and let you merrily move to close down the OB gate? Theyre game mobs. Their job is to kill you. Period, end of story. Human NPCS will attempt to run away from you (sometimes sloppily). The demons arent so concerned with self-preservation.

I entered the first OB gate a Lvl 21 or so - and after about 50 hours. It was by no means a walk in the park and I had to twice leave to repair broken armor and get supplies.

Some of the criticisms I've seen here are valid - others border on asinine hatred of the game, and simply playng it for the the right to "complain" (you folks know who you are).

Yes the Guards are seemingly everywhere (although not really if you actually SNEAK into homes or manage to kill NPC's before the squeal - paralyze arrows FTW) -
Yes the mobs/gear scale with you - meaning youll always have a challenging fight, and will never be able to "power-level" -
Yes money is easy to come by (especially if ones a thief - NPC's seemingly love to restock those kick-ass weapons you stole from them)
Yes the MQ is a bit short and not the best feature of the game -
Yes it sucks that I cant sleep in an abandoned house in the woods because im "trespassing"

However, everything else clicks with me. The combat is better than MW (although that doesnt take much) and I've found it's better than simply clickety-clacking. There are varied ways of taking down enemies, and there have been many times where I've gotten my ass handed to me because I overestimated the ability of a mob. Just because the enemies LEVEL scales to your own - doesnt mean it will be an even fight. Thats a ridiculous statement to make and isnt indicative of the game as a whole. Fighting goblins was easy - fighting two minotaurs at the same time or those trolls in Tidewater cave - thats something else entirely.

As I've said - I've put 50 hours into the game, and barely have put a dent in any of the guilds (just entered Arcane Uni, and just got my staff). Most of the time is spent searching for rare books thatll give some info on the locations of the artifacts (Tamriel Lore lists

The game world IS huge. Fast travel simply make its seem less so. However, I have just run through the game world, and unless you do this - you will miss quite a bit.

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

Oblivion needs good cross storylines and more guilds : it 's its biggest problem for me.
I would like that each guild has its ennemy guild.

mage guild vs. necromancer
fighters guild vs. evil mercenaries
dark brotherhood vs. thief guild
nine divines vs. daedras guilds
blade vs. races fighting for the independence of their province...
counts vs counts...

What would be better is something more like Freelancer, where each faction had a list of allies, neutrals, and enemies. Divide up the fighter guild in to a few smaller guilds and give them spheres of influence and terrority. Do the same with the thieves guild, mages, and so forth. Then impliment random quests and favor status tracking. If you're doing quests for the Cyro Scout Alliance Fighter Guild, and they're in good with the West End Guardians Fight Guild, then you should get high favor rising in the Cyro Scouts and a small boost to the West Enders. Depending on how public the quest is, you might take a hit in favor from the enemies of the Cyro Scouts.

Just having one enemy doesn't do much for a meaningful dynamic. You have to be able to make multiple ones happy or mad with one or two actions. Freelancer did a lot of things half assed, but the idea of factional ties and reputation sharing isn't one of them.

 

[Excrément]

franckly, if you didn't like Morrowind you must admit that at least Oblivion is funny and if you do like Morrowind admit there are a lot of improvements also.

No, I could play Morrowind (and I did for 150+ hrs). I can't stand Oblivion. After 50-60 hours of playing it, I felt robbed and hollow inside. I literally forced myself playing it for last 20 hours, expecting to find some redeeming feature. I didn't find one.

Not that Morrowind was a good (or any) roleplaying game to begin with, but IMO, it was a better sandbox/exploration action-adventure than simplified Oblivon.

To be fair, here's my list with my opinions:

- Alien, slightly hostile setting in Morrowind. Oblivion has a very generic, uninspiring fantasy setting.
- Significantly more dialogue (better call it text) in Morrowind. Where are loremasters and topics like lore, geographic regions, known potions, scrolls, spells, other factions, towns?
In Oblivion, wiki is limited to quest related topics, Gray Fox and Rumors (Ok, guards can tell you few services and few directions). This all is good for filler NPCs, but in Oblivion, all NPCs seem to be filler NPCs.
- Less spells (there's NOT just Levitate! - compare both TESCSs for effects),
- Writing is still poor but very basic this time around, funny to childish at some instances. So hyped voice acting is horrible (only 6 voices, mostly sounds goofy, lacks proper intonation). You can't claim that full voice acting is an advancement since Morrowind because it's not immersive at all - it doesn't sound authentic. You just don't have to read and that's it. And because of it, there's much less text now.
- Three times more factions in Morrowind, plus you couldn't join them all (Great Houses, for example - they even had strongholds as a bonus, etc...). Advancement was restricted by your skills.
- Fewer shops per town (some towns only have three to four shops, while Morrowind towns were full of different alchemists, clothiers, healers, mage shops, booksellers, etc...). Looked more realistic... *cough* immersive.
- A lot more equipment (weapons, armor pieces) in Morrowind. In Oblivon, there are just blades and blunts (which includes few axes!). No spears, no halberds, no melee staves, no exotic weapons (like dai-katanas, wakizashis, tantos, broadswords), no tower shields, no pauldrons, no separate gauntlets/gloves, no belts...
- For example, iron longsword has the same properties as ebony longsword, only greater damage rating (and durability+weight which have no significant impact in combat).
In morrowind, weapons from different materials had different slash/chop/thrust damages. Not that combat was good in MW, but that was a good base to build on. Instead, they decided to dumbfuck it to most simple system: "smaller longsword", "bigger longsword", "biggest longsword", "smaller claymore", "bigger claymore", "biggest claymore", etc...
- Due to overused RNG (the very best equipment is randomized, too), no point of exploration, which, IMO, is a MAJOR downgrade from Morrowind. Why the hell do you need to visit every dungeon when you can repeatedly visit only one (all loot respawns) and find even daedric equipment as regular loot there? It's difficult NOT to find the best loot once you hit level 20. Which is very soon, btw.
In Morrowind, you could rob vaults for good and rare equipment (which was fun on it's own), you could visit dangerous places (where they kicked your ass before you hit certain levels) and steal loot from daedra cultists. Here, everything is handed to you without any effort, just wait few levels and generic meraurder #232 in generic dungeon #84 will be running around in full set of daedric armor.
Also, there are a lot less hand placed unique/legendary items. (I checked with TESCS) It's also more likely they will be handed to you by a NPC doing some quest rather than be found in some hidden, heavily guarded dungeon.
- NPC leveling. HALF of all npcs in game (checked with TESCS) are leveled. Due to this, for example, Arena faction plays EXACTLY like an FPS. Even worse if you don't focus on training combat skills.
I never stumbled upon a mob much stronger than me, so I could return there much later with a vengeance, expecting some reward.
- Dumbed down enchanting. All equipment can be enchanted equally good with the same soulgem, you can only enchant armor as "Constant effect" (WTF!?) except weapons which can only be "On strike" doing damage only. (WTF? no more Dagger +5 Skill, no more sword of healing self on strike, etc...).
Morrowind's enchanting was broken (machinegun casting, dumb barbarians could make and use rings of fireball +500). Instead of fixing it, they dumbed it down. Barbarians can STILL use magic staves equally good as arch-wizards and then refill them with ammo clips soulgems.
- Hand-holding dumbfucked messages. "You just found super hidden dungeon #8374!" (before you even see any entrance, fuck compass). Messages like "Now I must go there, do this, do that, then return here and do this!" "I just came here now I must do this!" are also awesome. Same as morrowind's fedex quests, only with more stages and GPS compass.
- AI and NPC scheduling are pathetic. They completely eliminate any immersion that was left. They should stick with static NPCs as in MW/DF (and leave it to imagination) if they are unable to do anything half as good as in, say, Gothic.
- Interface. I like neat, old-school looking interfaces, like MW had (you had everything on one screen). Oblivion's consolified interace is sickening.

IMHO, Oblivion has much less content and simpler mechanics than Morrowind while still being a piss poor RPG (none). It just looked better to me (faces excluded) and that's it. And I don't like the new action combat.
With few tweak mods, Morrowind was playable for me, Oblivion needs a total conversion (unlikely to happen) to be interesting to me.

Most of your points are right (I disagree on some and especially about the RAI vs. static NPCs but that's not important), the fact is that for me new features change more the gameplay and improve the fun and the steps back compared to Morrowind are less important (yes, even the compass) :

- combat system
- the fact you don't miss thing but your action is just less effective according to your skills.
- stealth system (the thieves were totally screwed in MW, stealth was non-fun)
- dungeons are simply awesome and MW dungeons were a bad joke (you spend 1/3 on your time in the dungeons...)
- RAI has big flaws but it is >> static and boring NPCs
- balance alchemy and enchanting (MW system was broken)
- Olivion is challenging, MW was boring
- graphics, wilderness, I have a very good immersion thanks to speedtree, no cliffracers and less creatures in the wilderness, more ingredients (flora is better...)
- skill perks

In Oblivion you have 3 different way of playing the character : mage type / thief type and warrior type. In Morrowind only the battlemage were not screwed...

 

[elander_]

And it's not that the main and common criticism people here level at Oblivion is asking for something new - in fact we most often seem to ask for old things, things that were done in Fallout, Planescape, BG2, DF, etc.

There are things that should be retained and things that should be refreshed. Knowing what is what requires a game designer intuition. It seams that things are running backwords these days mostly because game creators and publishers see game design as the art of taking money from teens selling the most vain and imature fantasies.

I think good gameplay should be retained only refreshing the circunstances where the player can apply it's skills, different scenerios and different worlds. Look at some of the most popular games like chess and football for example. It would be nonsense to change chess rules and football rules are only minimaly changed in periods of decades.

 

[elander_]

Questing is pretty one dimensional. Go here, do this. Interesting quests are few and far between, the only one that springs to mind is the Daedric Artifact quest, where there's actually a reason to dig further than the quest compass, and ultimately, requires the sacrifice of something powerful.

Im going to be repetitive by remenbering Daggerfall gameplay again. Yes i agree and i think anyone agrees that Oblivion quests are very one dimensional and linear. The fact that we can't skip a certain type of quest to progress in a guild is very anoying. Quests about fetching items are very boring when the player is forced to take them. But sometimes they are useful when, in the current circunstances, the player want's to do one of these. I only see two ways for this to work. First is to make a small number of very good quests but then scrap the use based xp system because there is no way for it to provide the advancement the player needs. The other is the Daggerfall way with use based xp where the game would provide an infinite amount of templated quests and the player had a list of quests to choose at any time to progress in the guild.

 

[ANDS!]

Im going to be repetitive by remenbering Daggerfall gameplay again.

So instead of scripted quests that have more depth to them - youd rather have randomly generated quests - just so you can say you dont know what to "expect" with a quest.

Ill pass.

The fact that we can't skip a certain type of quest to progress in a guild is very anoying.

Why should they let you advance at the Arcane Uni if you dont do the jobs they ask you do to?

 

[elander_]

- level scaling, even if this system has big flaws (especially the fact that the MQ is more easy at lvl 1 than at lvl 20), I really prefer this challenge compared to the unchallenging Morrowind. its like DF.

Yes it's like Daggerfall in potential and the Oblivion leveled thing system is even more sofisticated technicaly. But the way it was used is very different from the way it was used in Daggerfall.

It's like the ai. Technicaly RAI is very good but in its implementation it was so clumsy done that it looks worst than a scripted system.

 

[elander_]

So instead of scripted quests that have more depth to them - youd rather have randomly generated quests - just so you can say you dont know what to "expect" with a quest.

Templated quests are not random quests. These are quest templates than react to world events, players class, time of day, hollydays, player reputation, etc

It's not just about changing the name of the person or the place where the questor is. Daggerfall many similar quests but also other that use much more complex templates.

Why should they let you advance at the Arcane Uni if you dont do the jobs they ask you do to?

Notice i said 'choose from a list of possible quests' to advance not that the player should NOT do quests for the guild successful to raise in rank. In general the menu slightly changes depending on what is happening in the world or the players reputation.

For example if you are a mages guild menber and also a thieves guild member (there is no conflict between these two guilds in Dagerfall) the game is sensitive to this and sometimes a mages guild member will come to you with an offer for a thieving quest.

 

[suleo]

Why should they let you advance at the Arcane Uni if you dont do the jobs they ask you do to?

So if I "do the jobs they tell me to do" I eventually become arch-mage regardless of my actual skill.

Just like in the real world, if I "do the jobs they tell me to do" I eventually become Supreme Ruler of the Universe.

 

[ANDS!]

Notice i said 'choose from a list of possible quests' to advance not that the player should NOT do quests for the guild successful to raise in rank.

Same critique. This NPC is telling you he wants this specific quest done. Period. If you dont do this SINGLE QUEST or job - he wont give you the recommendation to advance.

For example if you are a mages guild menber and also a thieves guild member (there is no conflict between these two guilds in Dagerfall) the game is sensitive to this and sometimes a mages guild member will come to you with an offer for a thieving quest.

They could have done this - but it wouldnt do anymore to push me into the game than the way the system is now.

So if I "do the jobs they tell me to do" I eventually become arch-mage regardless of my actual skill.

You must have SOME skill to complete these missions/jobs that you are being sent on. Magical skill - who knows. But you must know something to be able to adventure out there on these sensitive tasks.

Sure they could require you to meet certain minimum skill sets to advance - but then you'd just have script kiddies spamming low-lvl spells that cost 1mana over and over artificially raising their skill level to meet these requirements. Better for it to not be in - than to be in and be a piss-poor "check" on the system that is easily overcome by trigger fingers.

 

[suibhne]

Sure they could require you to meet certain minimum skill sets to advance - but then you'd just have script kiddies spamming low-lvl spells that cost 1mana over and over artificially raising their skill level to meet these requirements. Better for it to not be in - than to be in and be a piss-poor "check" on the system that is easily overcome by trigger fingers.

Yeah, 'cause it doesn't make any sense for the Arch-Mage of the Empire's Mages Guild to have any real magical ability. I mean, if you required that, you'd just open the door to rampant P/Ling!!!1

ZOMG.

With that comment, you've officially achieved escape velocity from all rational discourse. GG.

 

[ANDS!]

Yeah, 'cause it doesn't make any sense for the Arch-Mage of the Empire's Mages Guild to have any real magical ability.

There are actual NPC's in the game - whos magical ability is questioned (if not outright dismissed), yet still have membership not only in guilds, but presumably at the ARCANE UNI as well. The position of Arch-Mage (in the game) is a political one, so no for storyline purposes - having any real talent in magic isnt needed to be Arch Mage.

Also - your sentence is pretty clumsily written.

 

[suibhne]

Also - your sentence is pretty clumsily written.

Wow. You just won an argument on teh intarnets. I done got pwnt - and using my best, totally unironic writing style, too.

You did misspell "whos", tho. That marginally weakens your case.

 

[bryce777]

Yeah, 'cause it doesn't make any sense for the Arch-Mage of the Empire's Mages Guild to have any real magical ability.

There are actual NPC's in the game - whos magical ability is questioned (if not outright dismissed), yet still have membership not only in guilds, but presumably at the ARCANE UNI as well. The position of Arch-Mage (in the game) is a political one, so no for storyline purposes - having any real talent in magic isnt needed to be Arch Mage.

Also - your sentence is pretty clumsily written.

Are you shitting me? Are you seriously challenging his grammar when you can barely string a sentence together, and it takes great strain to even speculate what you are referring to at times, let alone what point you are trying to make?

 

[OverrideB1]

Same critique. This NPC is telling you he wants this specific quest done. Period. If you dont do this SINGLE QUEST or job - he wont give you the recommendation to advance.

You obviously fail to grasp the basic principle here. Advancement is tied to completing quests but there are multiple quests available to gain you the grace and favour necessary to advance.

Don't fancy scouring the wilderness for the X of Y? Turn down the quest and do one from another NPC that has you protecting a Guild-House. Don't fancy that? Turn it down, pick another.

With a large enough set of templates for quests, you can take multiple routes from lowly peon to grand poobah - picking and choosing quests that you think might suit your character. And because these are procedurally generated, and have a selection of input variables, some quests might earn you more grace and favour than others

 

[ANDS!]

That marginally weakens your case.

Good on ya - the grammatical snark isnt rendered invalid. Care to respond to the meat of the reply.

Naw - dont bother. If you could, you would have.

Are you shitting me?

Not unless youre into that stuff big boi - way to dodge any crit of your own flawless arguments Fallout Boy. Look at that - I made a funny.

Don't fancy scouring the wilderness for the X of Y? Turn down the quest and do one from another NPC that has you protecting a Guild-House. Don't fancy that? Turn it down, pick another.

So THAT is more realistic than you turning down the request of a superior. Its the Mages guild - not a Temp Service.

And because these are procedurally generated -

Now folks are just tossing "procedurally generated" around to sound "cutting edge". Its still randomly generated content, and sloppy content at that. Instead of focusing on quest lines that actually make sense and make the player feel as if they are part of something big - we'll just let them complete X number of quests that the computer controls, and let the cherry pick which quests sound "keen" to them.

I'll choose the former - as BETH has shown me at the very least they know how to craft interesting quests for the main even sections of the game.

 

[Section8]

I have to admit the "posing nude corpses" aspect of oblivion is intriguing to me.

O to the b to the livin large, on the scene to kill your dreams I's da man in charge.

p to the e to the d to the o, little kiddies corpses all stacked in a row.

To bad this motherfucker an essential npc, or I'd wack his ass and use hid body in my corpse fort lavatry

Notorious DAC - Our rap is well deserved. Somebody LINK THAT SHIT!

 

[Twinfalls]

Yeah, 'cause it doesn't make any sense for the Arch-Mage of the Empire's Mages Guild to have any real magical ability.

There are actual NPC's in the game - whos magical ability is questioned (if not outright dismissed), yet still have membership not only in guilds, but presumably at the ARCANE UNI as well. The position of Arch-Mage (in the game) is a political one, so no for storyline purposes - having any real talent in magic isnt needed to be Arch Mage.

This doesn't wash. For there to be no testing of magic skills at any stage in progressing through what is called a magic university is simply stupid, not believable, and immersion-breaking.

Daggerfall had two methods of ensuring you were appropriately skilled. First, it had skill level requirements for progress. Second, at certain levels, the guild would ask you to do stuff that requires magic skills. For example, the guild would ask you to summon a daedra.

Is there anything in Oblivion resembling this, where guild quests actually require magic skill levels?

Or is the Mages Guild comprised pretty much of fetch, kill, or fetch-and-kill quests, and all the quests can be done in any way you like?

If the latter, this means that anyone - a fucking warrior, can go to the guild and become arch-mage. So why even call it a mages guild?

 

[suleo]

Daggerfall had two methods of ensuring you were appropriately skilled. First, it had skill level requirements for progress. Second, at certain levels, the guild would ask you to do stuff that requires magic skills. For example, the guild would ask you to summon a daedra.

Is there anything in Oblivion resembling this, where guild quests actually require magic skill levels?

Or is the Mages Guild comprised pretty much of fetch, kill, or fetch-and-kill quests, and all the quests can be done in any way you like?

If the latter, this means that anyone - a fucking warrior, can go to the guild and become arch-mage. So why even call it a mages guild?

The latter. In fact, reccomendation quests aside, mages guild quests are *quite easier* if you're a warrior type, since they're basically "go there, kill everything" quests.

The reccomendation quests seem, at first, to be a little more like the daggerfall quests of old. Since you need reccomendation from all 7 towns (6 with their individual schools + bruma), one would expect that each of those quests would excercise your ability in the corresponding school of magic. The actual implementation however fails to deliver in several occasions (some of those quests don't require any magic skill at all, while the one that involves offensive magic can be done so much easier with just hacking enemies to pieces with a big sword)

 

[Twinfalls]

This game is a joke.