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Review Oblivion Review

Vault Dweller

Commissar, Red Star Studio
Developer
Joined
Jan 7, 2003
Messages
28,035
DragoonWraith said:
That's patently false. From a gameplay perspective, "Lifting the Veil" was enjoyable, so it qualifies as interesting, but "well done" - not nearly.
You are right. After playing the game for 60+ hours, comparing to most quests, this one looked liked a brilliant masterpiece, especially considering the rare peaceful option to handle it, which was the main reason for "well done". Still the lore is butchered, and I should have noted that.

Thanks, and welcome to the forums.
 

DragoonWraith

Novice
Joined
Aug 17, 2006
Messages
3
Ah, good, I wasn't sure how my post would be received. Glad to see people other than the "lore mongers" (to quote Bethesda, ugh) do care about the lore.

The fact that Bethesda clearly doesn't had me thinking that everybody outside the ESF lore forum and The Imperial Library's Storyboard didn't really care one way or the other as long as there was some amusing storyline for them to read. Nice to see people care when that storyline is in direct contradiction to the background of the game, even when that background isn't readily apparent.

Thank you for the warm welcome.
 

Vault Dweller

Commissar, Red Star Studio
Developer
Joined
Jan 7, 2003
Messages
28,035
DragoonWraith said:
Ah, good, I wasn't sure how my post would be received.
Justified and well explained criticism is always welcome and accepted. It aint ESF.

Glad to see people other than the "lore mongers" (to quote Bethesda, ugh) do care about the lore.
That's what separates a memorable game from some generic crap.

Thank you for the warm welcome.
Welcome. Just don't tell Summer.
 

psycojester

Arbiter
Joined
Jun 23, 2006
Messages
2,526
Coming this fall from Bethesda.

Hitlers quest: an exciting story about a valiant man who goes against his society to free the Jews and end fascism.

Bethesda has responded to criticism by stating that only History Mongers actually care about the details of WW2 and the fanbase will be captvated by the awesome graphics and physics engine.
 

GhanBuriGhan

Erudite
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
1,170
DragoonWraith said:
IThat's patently false. From a gameplay perspective, "Lifting the Veil" was enjoyable, so it qualifies as interesting, but "well done" - not nearly. Here, I'll enumerate the problems with it (be forewarned - this is TES lore - you would not know any of this if you haven't read a lot of the in-game books, including some which do not appear in Oblivion. However, a lot of it is not obscure in the least, either, and a "well done" quest cannot possibly have this many plot-holes and continuity issues):
  1. The Imperials managed to lose their own fort? The Akaviri invasion of Tamriel happened very early in the history of the (Second) Empire, how in god's name did they forget where it was that fast?
  2. The Akaviri, from a continent roughly 5000+ miles from Cyrodiil, knew where it was?
  3. It's been 1556 years since the Akaviri defeat at Pale Pass - you're telling me no one stumbled upon it in all that time? You don't need to be Champion of Cyrodiil to kill a handful of Ogres
  4. Some bloke's diary lasted 1556 years in the near-arctic? WTF?
  5. The Akaviri have a hidden base whose secrecy is crucial to their invasion, and a messenger writes down nice, neat directions to the base?!
  6. Who the hell can translate Akaviri? That language is clearly not even close to anything else in Tamriel - you're telling me that Ayleid and Dwemeris (two Tamrielan Elven languages) are completely baffling to scholars, but somebody can translate Akaviri, a culture 5000 miles away, across an ocean, with no relation whatsoever to Tamrielan languages, no problem?
  7. Last, but certainly not least, the Akaviri who attacked Tamriel and were defeated at Pale Pass were Tsaesci - god-damned snakes!

Well, I assume that akavir COULD be better known, considering that the Akaviri potentates once ruled the empire and injected some of their own culture into the empire.

But there is more:

- Why are those damn Ogres still there, after all this time?
- The diary describes a long journey to several waypoints (I think over several days) to find the tunnel - Even measured in-game time, the trip takes mere minutes.
- What language does the ghost of the Akaviri captain speak?
 

Vault Dweller

Commissar, Red Star Studio
Developer
Joined
Jan 7, 2003
Messages
28,035
Yesterday someone posted a link to the review at the Codex, this new DragoonWraith guy made the same point, and I replied, explaining why I said this quest was well done. Today the link and my comments are gone. Zealous fuckers.
 

psycojester

Arbiter
Joined
Jun 23, 2006
Messages
2,526
How dare you have a differing opinion VaultDweller. Don't you know that forum are for blind obediance and subsurviance. Imagine the anarchy that would break out on a board on which people didn't just follow the party line
 

Greatatlantic

Erudite
Joined
Feb 21, 2005
Messages
1,683
Location
The Heart of It All
psycojester said:
How dare you have a differing opinion VaultDweller. Don't you know that forum are for blind obediance and subsurviance. Imagine the anarchy that would break out on a board on which people didn't just follow the party line

Yes, in the Anarchy there would be many misleading links with hidden surprises.
 

DragoonWraith

Novice
Joined
Aug 17, 2006
Messages
3
GhanBuriGhan said:
Well, I assume that akavir COULD be better known, considering that the Akaviri potentates once ruled the empire and injected some of their own culture into the empire.

But there is more:

- Why are those damn Ogres still there, after all this time?
- The diary describes a long journey to several waypoints (I think over several days) to find the tunnel - Even measured in-game time, the trip takes mere minutes.
- What language does the ghost of the Akaviri captain speak?
Hey GBG.

Anyway, there are possible explanations to some, if not all, of my objections. The real problem is that none of them are addressed in the game, not that they are there to begin with.

For instance, the Empire and the Akaviri were very close for a few hundred years, so knowledge of Akaviri is quite possible.

The diary could have been made out of the same stuff as clothes (which can never be damaged), and perhaps the messenger was just stupid about writing down the path.

Beth did "explain", albeit poorly, the humanoid Akaviri in a board post after the fact, too.

My real complaint is that none of this found its way into the game. There're plenty of other instances - the dragonborn, Amulet of Kings, Temple of the One business was just awful, made absolutely no sense without this document, which, despite being written prior to Oblivion, never found its way in game. Janus Hassildor (Count of Skingrad) says you can't free a Vampire from its curse by killing it, and Azura asks you to do just that. Inconsistencies abound.



By the way, though, I don't find the ESF that bad (at least not the modding and lore forums, ObGen is just painful) - what happened with Summer?
 

ngochn

Novice
Joined
Aug 19, 2006
Messages
2
I have to register just to reply to this reviewer about his opinion on Oblivion, which I think is very unfair toward a great game and might influence gamers to turn away on this RPG gem. Although his analysis is well made and exposes clearly the weaknesses of Oblivion, he seems to ignore what really makes Oblivion great and outstanding among its counterparts: the TES construction set, which is the source of its endless replayability, versatility, and adaptability. Yes, the vanila Oblivion does have all of the drawbacks that VD painstakingly picked on. However, there must be a reason why Oblivion is so popular and has gained a huge fan community against all of those weaknesses. Oblivion (as well as Morrowind before it) are the only games to date that allow the gamers to channel their creativity and imagination to transform the gaming enviroment to the utmost extent of what their fantasy dream can allow, and the sky is the limit here! As time goes on, more and more modules from talented modders have helped the raw material first shipped from Bethesda evolve over time into a well-polished gem without trace of its infantile, primitive defects., just like the Ugly Duckling that has matured itself into a glamorous swan. With endless stream of contributions from the HUGE modding community, Oblivion will never be the same game you have played 3 months ago. Its charm lies in its infinite versatility and evolution. For example, the reviewer has laughed out loud about the uninspiring levelling in the vanilla Oblivion, right? Oscuro, Francesco, as well as other modders, have corrected that and even enrich Oblivion further in many aspects. No way you can become the arena champion at just level 1 if you have used these mods. Complaining about the laughable water reflections, bland atmosphere, or blotchy landscape? Come on, please search in the net for breathtaking screenshots that demonstrate the transformation power of Oblivion, thanks to great texture modules from its army of dedicated modding fans. Whining about the primitve combat system and the repetitive, unchanging, sissy enemies you are dealing with? Why don't you downloads modules that gonna enhance melee or magic systems, creature mods that provide challenging and versatile opponents, or dungeon and landscape mods that for sure will broaden your fantasy game world and satify your alter-ego in endless adventures. Oblivion is great because it GROWS, and will become more and more sophisticated day by day, thanks to the TES tool provided from the game developer to the creative fan community. The review has just poked fun at that poor little Ugly Duckling, but failed to see its potentiality to transform into that beautiful swan. Please remember that Oblivion will grow and mature itself into the beloved RPG that gonna stay for a long, long time in your desktop, while other games have gained dust on shelves from running out of its replayability. With the current status of the modding library out there, Oblivion is no longer the same game Vault Dweller has used to know, so his review on Oblivion is becoming outdated and obsolete! Please, do Oblivion a justice to go buy the game and follow the modding forum closely for great mods. You can do a search on google to find and watch OOO1.3 trailer and PJ's Spell compedium teaser, the two exciting mods that I am anxiously waiting for, to see if these new aspects of Oblivion is up to your liking.
 

Walkin' Dude

Liturgist
Joined
Mar 22, 2006
Messages
796
So, you admit that Oblivion is a crappy game, but you think people should pony up the money so that they can put the effort into making a good game?

That is retarded.

If Oblivion was advertised as a game creation platform, then perhaps you could argue that it succeeds. Instead, it hypes itself as a roleplaying game. Not just a roleplaying game, but the best RPG ever!!!!! At that, it fails miserably.

In fact, if I am not mistaken, the construction set is a free download that is not included with the game.

You refer to all of the things that were fixed by moders. A good game should not need to be fixed to be enjoyable.
 

Vault Dweller

Commissar, Red Star Studio
Developer
Joined
Jan 7, 2003
Messages
28,035
ngochn said:
I have to register just to reply to this reviewer about his opinion on Oblivion, which I think is very unfair toward a great game and might influence gamers to turn away on this RPG gem.
RPG gem? A promising beginning.

Although his analysis is well made and exposes clearly the weaknesses of Oblivion, he seems to ignore what really makes Oblivion great and outstanding among its counterparts: the TES construction set, which is the source of its endless replayability, versatility, and adaptability.
Deja vu.

http://www.rpgcodex.com/phpBB/viewtopic ... 07&start=0
NWN is the bestest rpg evar because it comes with an edtor: a source of endless replayability, versatility, and adaptability. Well, I reviewed the game that came with the editor. I have no idea - nor do I care - how awesome the editor is. When I start reviewing tools, I'll review C++ first and give it 10/10 for being such an amazing RPG (followed closely by a notepad).

However, there must be a reason why Oblivion is so popular and has gained a huge fan community against all of those weaknesses.
People are stupid? Casual players are satisfied with a fantasy shooter that doesn't require much focus and attention? Its graphics are shiny? Who knows?

Oblivion (as well as Morrowind before it) are the only games to date that allow the gamers to channel their creativity and imagination to transform the gaming enviroment to the utmost extent of what their fantasy dream can allow, and the sky is the limit here!
Sky is the limit? That's funny, considering the levitation issues. Don't you mean the toolset with reduced (from MW) capabilities is the limit?

As time goes on, more and more modules from talented modders have helped the raw material first shipped from Bethesda evolve over time into a well-polished gem without trace of its infantile, primitive defects., just like the Ugly Duckling that has matured itself into a glamorous swan.
What about the core of the game: choices, consequences, quests, dialogues? Not extra quests that may have been added, but the main/faction quests.
 
Joined
Aug 20, 2006
Messages
13
I have to register just to reply to this reviewer about his opinion on Oblivion, which I think is very unfair toward a great game and might influence gamers to turn away on this RPG gem

Because your opinion is that this game is a gem,than everybody who doesn't like it needs to keep quite to keep sales up.Wouldn't it be just as unfair to prospective purchasers if people kept quite about what is wrong with the game.

My own opinion is that the game is boring,repetitive,uninspired,overhyped,etc.I also felt insulted by the handholding in the game,as though i'm a retard who couldn't tie his own shoes let alone read directions and clues.Yet i wouldn't tell people not to post their positive comments if they enjoyed it so people wouldn't buy the game.

The shame is that it could have been a truely great game if it wasn't so dumbed down.I felt like i had bought a copy of The Count of Monty Cristo,only to open it and find a Dick and Jane picture book.
 

ngochn

Novice
Joined
Aug 19, 2006
Messages
2
To Vault Dweller:
Can you levitate in Gothic? in Baldur Gate?
Not all games are bad because you cannot fly, right?
Oblivion is becoming more and more popular (look at it s booming fan sites and modding communities) while you are here whining. It is very rude of you, the reviewer, to call others who do not share your points of view are stupid. It is a sign of being petty and small-minded. I will never come back to this tiny forum because of jerks like you.
 

Ratty

Scholar
Joined
Mar 24, 2006
Messages
199
Location
Zagreb, Croatia
ngochn said:
Oblivion (as well as Morrowind before it) are the only games to date that allow the gamers to channel their creativity and imagination to transform the gaming enviroment to the utmost extent of what their fantasy dream can allow
*Only* games to date?

*digs up the ancient floppies containing a never-completed total conversion of Wolfenstein 3D*

Looks like someone needs a reality check.

Can you levitate in Gothic? in Baldur Gate?
You aren't a very bright person, are you? Oh, right, I forgot... an Oblivion fan.

Nobody cares that Gothic doesn't have levitation, simply because no Gothic game ever featured it, so it isn't part of the game setting and lore. On the other hand, the levitation spell is fairly common throughout the Elder Scrolls series, yet it was removed from Oblivion due to lazy design and programming.
 

Vault Dweller

Commissar, Red Star Studio
Developer
Joined
Jan 7, 2003
Messages
28,035
ngochn said:
To Vault Dweller:
Can you levitate in Gothic? in Baldur Gate?
But they are not RPG gems like Oblivion where the sky is the limit, are they? Well, technically, you are right, the sky *is* the limit, because you can't levitate...

Not all games are bad because you cannot fly, right?
You are not very bright, are you?

Oblivion is becoming more and more popular (look at it s booming fan sites and modding communities) while you are here whining.
Uh, no. *You* are here whining. I simply have a different opinion and I don't visit other forums telling everyone about how I feel about Oblivion, do I?

It is very rude of you, the reviewer, to call others who do not share your points of view are stupid.
Did I say that?

It is a sign of being petty and small-minded.
Uh, no again. A sign of being petty and small-minded is coming here because one out of 3 negative Oblivion reviews out hundreds of glowing reviews can't let you sleep at night.

I will never come back to this tiny forum because of jerks like you.
Well, good fucking riddance. I wish I could tell you that we gonna miss your petty and small-minded ass, but that would be a lie.

Btw, if the forum is so tiny, how did you find it or hear about it?
 
Joined
Aug 20, 2006
Messages
13
ngochn said:
To Vault Dweller:
Can you levitate in Gothic? in Baldur Gate?
Not all games are bad because you cannot fly, right?
Oblivion is becoming more and more popular (look at it s booming fan sites and modding communities) while you are here whining. It is very rude of you, the reviewer, to call others who do not share your points of view are stupid. It is a sign of being petty and small-minded. I will never come back to this tiny forum because of jerks like you.

Boo fucking hoo.As Todd "the Mans" Howards bitch i have no arguements to give beyond levitation,that being the least of the worries of the game.

I tried very hard,as my master commanded me,to divert this conversation into the baubles rather than the crux of what made Oblivion fail as an RPG.

Now thanks to you i shall be eternally ass-raped by the Bethesda crew and fanboys for my failure to divert your attention awy from why the game sucks as a pure or action oriented RPG.

You have damned me..fuck you all.Oblivion RoXXers..I haven't played such an indepth game since BG:DA2.Oh God it burns..please release me from my torment!
 
Joined
Aug 20, 2006
Messages
13
ngochn said:
To Vault Dweller:
Can you levitate in Gothic? in Baldur Gate?
Not all games are bad because you cannot fly, right?
Oblivion is becoming more and more popular (look at it s booming fan sites and modding communities) while you are here whining. It is very rude of you, the reviewer, to call others who do not share your points of view are stupid. It is a sign of being petty and small-minded. I will never come back to this tiny forum because of jerks like you.

Sorry for the double post but asshats,along with the moderators of the TES boards,like him is why i no longer go there.Despite the best PR in the universe within several days of the games release their boards were fucking flooded with complaints about how the game sucked balls and in which ways it did.Many constructive posts on the whats and whys of how the game failed expectations...

They tried to play it off as whinners and that the real fans were too busy playing the game to be annoyed by how fucking shitty it was.Yeah Fuck you Summer " everyone else is enjoying the game and only the bitch whinners are posting"...Who do you think bought the game right off the bat,and paid the extra for a CE..Your fucking 14 year old 360 aduience?!? Nope real fans bought the game and when they played the POS and voiced their opinions you waited for the fucking GTA crowd to join in and say how awesome the game was.Fuck i first played TES on the XBox and still find this halfdone piece of shit Bethesda tried to pawn off on me as an insult both to my intelligence as a gamer,and more importantly as an individual with an IQ above Mongoloid.

Bethesda has no care beyond selling their game to the kiddie crowds.Heres a forewarning..they will grow up and expect more from a game besides your dumbest common denomimator philosphy.As they mature they will want games with more challenge and depth then you give them credit for..By the time you make FO3,with all the OMFG! i got a leveled power armor and gauss gun did you see me faceshot that dude!They will have moved beyond you.

Better start planning to pander back to your core audience..the ones whom you said fuck you to,because without them you'll be dead in ten years.
 

psycojester

Arbiter
Joined
Jun 23, 2006
Messages
2,526
And we didn't even have to play the Oblivion haters trump card: Lynda Carter!

When your design team decides that orcs should sound like Lynda Carter thats when its time to shoot everybody, burn down the office and move to Siberia
 
Joined
Aug 20, 2006
Messages
13
Did you know they had Patrick Stewart do dialogue for Oblivion.So totally worth the $70 dollars I spent on this crappy game that i haven't played since April.

Wow Captain Picard made this shitty game almost playable with his short voice over!

I am so glad they didn't budget that money into making this a better,and more playable, game.

For their next game i hope they throw out any budget they had for gameplay just to hear some syndicated actor speak a few lines..Screw it if the game doesn't reach its potential i want to at least hear an Alan Alda voiceover.
 

Jason

chasing a bee
Joined
Jun 30, 2005
Messages
10,737
Location
baby arm fantasy island
you waited for the fucking GTA crowd to join in and say how awesome the game was.

I just bought GTA: SA the other day. Only $15 brand new and it had the hardcover manual and everything. Maybe I'll go buy Oblivion next week if I like SA.
 

Nedrah

Erudite
Joined
Mar 14, 2005
Messages
1,693
Location
Germany
Don't.
Just don't.
You see, GTA:SA does what it is supposed do really very well. Not as cool as vice city if you ask me, but still fair enough.
You don't need any inteligence whatsoever to play it, but it still is great, mindless and violent fun.

Oblivion doesn't even come close, neither as GTA: The Rpg nor in any genre whatsoever.
 

Slith

Scholar
Joined
Mar 10, 2006
Messages
231
Location
West Coast, Canada
ngochn said:
I have to register just to reply to this reviewer about his opinion on Oblivion, which I think is very unfair toward a great game and might influence gamers to turn away on this RPG gem. Although his analysis is well made and exposes clearly the weaknesses of Oblivion, he seems to ignore what really makes Oblivion great and outstanding among its counterparts: the TES construction set, which is the source of its endless replayability, versatility, and adaptability. Yes, the vanila Oblivion does have all of the drawbacks that VD painstakingly picked on. However, there must be a reason why Oblivion is so popular and has gained a huge fan community against all of those weaknesses. Oblivion (as well as Morrowind before it) are the only games to date that allow the gamers to channel their creativity and imagination to transform the gaming enviroment to the utmost extent of what their fantasy dream can allow, and the sky is the limit here! As time goes on, more and more modules from talented modders have helped the raw material first shipped from Bethesda evolve over time into a well-polished gem without trace of its infantile, primitive defects., just like the Ugly Duckling that has matured itself into a glamorous swan. With endless stream of contributions from the HUGE modding community, Oblivion will never be the same game you have played 3 months ago. Its charm lies in its infinite versatility and evolution. For example, the reviewer has laughed out loud about the uninspiring levelling in the vanilla Oblivion, right? Oscuro, Francesco, as well as other modders, have corrected that and even enrich Oblivion further in many aspects. No way you can become the arena champion at just level 1 if you have used these mods. Complaining about the laughable water reflections, bland atmosphere, or blotchy landscape? Come on, please search in the net for breathtaking screenshots that demonstrate the transformation power of Oblivion, thanks to great texture modules from its army of dedicated modding fans. Whining about the primitve combat system and the repetitive, unchanging, sissy enemies you are dealing with? Why don't you downloads modules that gonna enhance melee or magic systems, creature mods that provide challenging and versatile opponents, or dungeon and landscape mods that for sure will broaden your fantasy game world and satify your alter-ego in endless adventures. Oblivion is great because it GROWS, and will become more and more sophisticated day by day, thanks to the TES tool provided from the game developer to the creative fan community. The review has just poked fun at that poor little Ugly Duckling, but failed to see its potentiality to transform into that beautiful swan. Please remember that Oblivion will grow and mature itself into the beloved RPG that gonna stay for a long, long time in your desktop, while other games have gained dust on shelves from running out of its replayability. With the current status of the modding library out there, Oblivion is no longer the same game Vault Dweller has used to know, so his review on Oblivion is becoming outdated and obsolete! Please, do Oblivion a justice to go buy the game and follow the modding forum closely for great mods. You can do a search on google to find and watch OOO1.3 trailer and PJ's Spell compedium teaser, the two exciting mods that I am anxiously waiting for, to see if these new aspects of Oblivion is up to your liking.

Fuck that shit. I'll read that when it forms an intelligence and speaks to me.
 

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