Review Oblivion Review

[Mr Happy]

]Hello, did you ever played Morrowind????? There was no crossbows in Morrowind! Man do you really know what you are talking about???

:arrow:

 

[Edward_R_Murrow]

Go on bite me, the point is you took the time to answer.

Eh...sure.

Hello, did you ever played Morrowind????? There was no crossbows in Morrowind! Man do you really know what you are talking about??? :twisted:

You sure about that?

Ho man wake up you get hit by amnesia or you never played Morrowind??? That's exactly the same in Morrowind.

Morrowind at least factored in skills and your fatigue. You couldn't hit jack with low fatigue, even if you had 100 in that skill. And running backwards while shooting could really drain your fatigue. Oblivion doesn't have to-hit rolls though, so it's a perfectly viable strategy and works every time, especially since all enemies just rush you.

Lol, like in Morrowind, ie you character ends as a master of close combat, master of thievery (even if useless when replaced with magic another focus of the review when it was exactly the same in Morrowind), master of magic, master of long range combat.

Sure thing. But the problem is, they didn't improve it when they easily could have.

Ok enough I won't answer any other of your answers on the detailed points I put because you obviously never played Morrowind or forgot all. I checked few other points and fall felt in that category, you didn't played Morrowind or forgot it.

Whatever floats your boat.....

Ok first point about linear: Three points A B C, A then B then C isn't the same path than A then C then B. You have 2 pathes it's not linear, that's that simple....

Sure, you can do things in a slightly different order, but if all the things you can do are totally linear, it just doesn't seem very non-linear to me. I guess I find the game to be the sum of it's parts or something.

Well In Morrowind that you seem to have forget a lot, you could become master of ALL guilds and do all their quests but one guild

Yes....by exploiting two bugs in the Great House factions, or so I heard. My game was fully patched, so I never could and never wanted to.

and even all guilds by navigating smartly through bugs.

It's a bug....not a part of the game and most certainly not what the designers intended.

You find that less linear you?

I find Morrowind less linear because there were often many ways to go about things, especially the end of the Fighter's Guild. You had some choices in quests, whereas there were none in Oblivion.

There was multiple endings appart finishing the main quest or not? No.

No...but there were two paths. You could do the run-around and arrive at Dagoth-Ur, or just whack everybody, grab Wraithguard, Keening, and Sunder and smash the heart. You weren't forced to do any of the main quest to fight Dagoth Ur, per se. It's totally linear in Oblivion, however.

The level scaling thing is unclear for me, that's perhaps the core weakness of Oblivion to be in fact too much non linear! Ok joking I'll read other explanation of this to understand that point.

Well...just about everything in the world is scaled to your level, from enemies, to items and such. So if you're level 5, you'll fight level 5 monsters with level 5 gear all the time. And if you're level 20, the monsters are now level 20 with level 20 gear. That's sort of how it works.

Yes I've been rude with you, sorry but you choose to bite me, anyway thanks for answering.

No problem.

 

[Horag]

Mr Hapyy : Lol, ok you got me I didn't remember any use of crossbow vs bows. Ok I get my share of amnesia!!! :D

 

[Admiral Rimjob POOBUM]

This is painful to read.

 

[Horag]

This is painful to read.

Lol good conclusion for this thread!

 

[Vault Dweller]

I tried read fully the review and some post and there's something I don't understand.

Judging by your posts, there is a lot you don't understand.

- Crossbow/bow sucks. Ok no crossbow in morrowind so why complain if it sucks in Oblivion, it's not cool but that doesn't make Morrowind better.

There are at least two crossbow types in Morrowind and at least five different bolt types. What else you don't know about?

Ok in Morrowind at a point long range starts to be boring once you exhausted all the fun experiments but is Oblivion worse?

Too subjective to answer. If you ask me, the entire game is painfully boring. However, if you are asking if ranged mechanics have been improved, the answer is no.

- Predefined classes suck if you want to optimize your char: Ok that was true too with Morrowind so wha't the problem? Do you own class and stop whining about that.

The review doesn't say anything about the predefined classes.

- Many skills are worthless ok it depends the way you play it, and then for some play some skills was useless in Morrowind too.

No, it doesn't depend on the way you play it.

- I quote : "You can do the quest in any order but the game is linear". Lol do you know what linear means?

And what exactly are you quoting, my not overly bright friend? This is not a line from my review. Anyway, the game is linear. As in, quest C follows quest B, which follows quest A. The main quest is linear. The faction quests are linear. In Morrowind you could at least go into a different town and do a different set of [faction] quests for a change.

- Choices in dialogs aren't real choice. Sure as in most RPG but very few and in a very limited range. Morrowind was quite limited on this how Oblivion is worse?

Same shit, I suppose, but then again, this is not a "Why Oblivion is worse than Morrowind" article. It's a review.

- Sneaking to steal people doesn't bring tons of bounty. Ha well what's the problem?

Remember them choices we were just talking about and those useless skills. Well, stealing is a fine example that goes with that story.

- Urge main plot pressure which is false, common many RPG failed in this, like BG2 and even often Morrowind. We are used to this and know it's not true time pressure.

The difference is that there is no "OMG! The demons are invading our awesome realm!" drama in these games. Taking your time in MW makes sense, doing the same in Oblivion doesn't.

- Bandits attack when they see you. Ok but in Morrowind too. For few you could calm them down with a spell and get some talk but nothing very far where to go but sometimes. Is this not possible anymore? The reviewer seems not know play the game.

Give me a break. Not everyone is as knowledgeable in gaming matters as you are.

Apart the main plot, the point is why Morrowind better than Oblivion????

For the same reason Daggerfall is better than Morrowind: Much better overall design and more of everything.

 

[Horag]

Men you're a bunch of not honest people about this crossbow thing. I was surprised to not remember any crossbow in Morrowind, it's because all are useless, too weak, found too late. And the only one that was impressive when you got it had 10 darts!

Lol yeah Crossbows was a great crap in Morrowind and you come throw me them in face? :D

EDIT : LOL I read further responses and still more going on. Yes skills can be worthless in Morrowind, for example thievery skills, you do all that by magic and makes it worthless. I don't see why you insist on this point.

 

[Elwro]

The dwarven crossbow was a kickass weapon, sorry. 30-30 damage! That's guaranteed 30 damage for you!

 

[Horag]

The dwarven crossbow was a kickass weapon, sorry. 30-30 damage! That's guaranteed 30 damage for you!

Lol sure, insist that Crossbow design had anything good in Morrowind! Lol, when you found it? You didn't get anything better before? What was the difference with bows except a fancy picture?

 

[Dark Matter]

I'm pretty sure the steel crossbow is available in Balmora.

 

[Horag]

Vault Dweller :
Crossbows : Yeah common insist and you'll make Morrowind Crossbows as design jewels when that was a crap.

Useless skills in Morrowind depends how you play it, quite sample : Thievery skills, you could do all by magic, if you play to learn magic for.

Non linearity in Morrowind : 2 way, killing all or doing the same quest, plus few quests of 2 guilds. Very small percentage of the game, what's the affair there?

The review points many Morrowind weakness and some Oblivion improvements that what chocked me plus it's an obvious bag of hate and quoting other critics didn't help. Morrowind is far to be among my favorite RPG but it's a good one so the conclusion of the review was a surprised.

About the importance of the urge plot thing, ok badly done... and BG2 was a crap too. Lol ok. I'm sorry but in Morrowind the evil should have really progress their plan and they didn't when I level up a lot. That doesn't make more sense for me even if I agree that it seems that Morrowind was a little less worse than Oblivion. Minor point anyway when objectively time isn't really managed in CRPG (appart few minor quests).

I quote : " Daggerfall is better than Morrowind: Much better overall design and more of everything." Lol yeah the older the better. :D

Now again, I got the core problem of Oblivions, the level scaling thing.

 

[Horag]

I'm pretty sure the steel crossbow is available in Balmora.

Yeah a fancy picture, what an affair!

Seriously this is a detail, nothing to make a game awful. I could quote you TON of weapons and fighting abilities not available in Morrowind or useless like the crossbow thing and then what's the problem?

 

[Edward_R_Murrow]

Crossbows : Yeah common insist and you'll make Morrowind Crossbows as design jewels when that was a crap.

Point is....it was an option taken away....along with throwing daggers, shuriken, and darts. If you wanted any kind of ranged weaponry besides bows in Oblivion, you were out of luck.

Useless skills in Morrowind depends how you play it, quite sample : Thievery skills, you could do all by magic, if you play to learn magic for.

Yeah....that was a problem. But they could of fixed it in Oblivion. Problem is....they didn't.

Non linearity in Morrowind : 2 way, killing all or doing the same quest, plus few quests of 2 guilds. Very small percentage of the game, what's the affair there?

Point is....Morrowind had very little. Oblivion had none. Quite a devolution, wouldn't you say? To go from some, to none.

The review points many Morrowind weakness and some Oblivion improvements that what chocked me plus

it's an obvious bag of hate

Really? I saw stuff like justification, reasoning, and all sorts of stuff a bag of hate would not contain.

and quoting other critics didn't help.

Those weren't critics.....they were developers.

Lol ok. I'm sorry but in Morrowind the evil should have really progress their plan and they didn't when I level up a lot.

Actually, they were progressing. Citizens would get possessed by Dagoth Ur's minions and start speaking all sorts of Sixth House gibberish. Not to mention they were moving out of Red Mountain as well.

Minor point anyway when objectively time isn't really managed in CRPG (appart few minor quests).

It's just that "HOLY SHIT DEMONIC INVASION AHHHHH!" is a really awful plot to stick on a game all about taking your time and doing tons of side quests.

Lol yeah the older the better. :D

In this case...it's true.

 

[Horag]

Edward_R_Murrow : Ok you got points, I feel it differently on many because I see them minor or quite close to Morrowind weakness that didn't bored me. But ok quite close but not same level, Morrowind somehow better on those points.

I'll never be able to say but it's quite simple, I have played many CRPG I found much better than Morrowind. And those CRPG could not have the non linearity you are asking, and even have ton of level scaling like BG2, and not tons of bounty from thieving and not tons of weapons and sort of fightings, and so on. Despite that in no way Morrowinds could compete against those.

And for Daggerfall, it's been a very poor experience for me, I remember a crap of bugs with very poor performances and I gave up very soon on it.

That said I can see how a level scaling badly setup/managed can screw up a game.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Crossbows : Yeah common insist and you'll make Morrowind Crossbows as design jewels when that was a crap.

Nothing in MW was a design jewel. However, crossbows, along with throwing weapons, represent yet another gameplay option taken away and replaced with nothing. Crossbows design wasn't perfect, but I wish it was improved, not cut.

Useless skills in Morrowind depends how you play it, quite sample : Thievery skills, you could do all by magic, if you play to learn magic for.

Uh, no. That's choices again (hint: the good thing). If skills are useful to some builds, they are not useless. If skills are useful to none and/or are poorly designed, then they are useless.

Non linearity in Morrowind : 2 way, killing all or doing the same quest, plus few quests of 2 guilds. Very small percentage of the game, what's the affair there?

One more time, it's a review of a game, not a comparison to a previous title. Anyway, like I said, in Morrowind each guild branch offered its own questline. So, at least I had a choice, and if I didn't feel like doing Balmora's Fighter Guild's quests, I could move to Ald-Ruhn and serve the guild there. Oblivion doesn't offer it.

 

[Horag]

In this review there's an implicit comparison with Morrowind because most rare good point of the game are pointed by the review as improvement of Morrowind. That let believe that anything else is different than Morrowind.

Instead of those ton of pages on weakness design you can find in many good (or even great) CRPG, the reviewer should have focus more on the the point that seems the core of the problem. the baldy managed/setup of level scaling. Ha well, I feel something wrong of this review but ok I can't say. The review let think that Oblivion is a total crap, it's so hard to believe even if I'm not a true fan of Morrowind and even less of the series.

EDIT : Vault Dweller : About real choice in CRPG, I'm an unbeliever, the reason is that you don't really see the choices unless when you replay the game either by reloading a previous save to see the difference, something weird that break the mood, either by replaying but when 95% of the stuff is the same it's not fun for me.

So what's the choice in Morrowind? You choose one guild among three? Well one choice that's quite short. You specialize your class? Well it didn't work well because you become good in everything but few minor choices. You wait more or less time and get some minor events with no influence on your future quests but very few? For the few quests you don't see because you choose one guild you'll never seem except if you accept to replay 95% of the same stuff. Ok ok, good points but very minor in fact.

 

[Frau Bishop]

This is painful to read.

 

[Horag]

This is painful to read.

Yeah point of convergence, it seems we all agree on that, good point! :D

 

[Jasede]

This is painful to read.

 

[Horag]

I love when I disturb sheeps!

 

[Jasede]

In the old days we'd have done something like this, Horag.

You raise many valid points, but please check out this article to find out what's wrong with them.

 

[Dark Matter]

Instead of those ton of pages on weakness design you can find in many good (or even great) CRPG, the reviewer should have focus more on the the point that seems the core of the problem. the baldy managed/setup of level scaling. Ha well, I feel something wrong of this review but ok I can't say. The review let think that Oblivion is a total crap, it's so hard to believe even if I'm not a true fan of Morrowind and even less of the series.

Did you even read the whole review? If you did, you'll know that he addresses that problem and, in fact, a big part of his criticism is focused on that aspect.

So what's the choice in Morrowind? You choose one guild among three? Well one choice that's quite short. You specialize your class? Well it didn't work well because you become good in everything but few minor choices. You wait more or less time and get some minor events with no influence on your future quests but very few? For the few quests you don't see because you choose one guild you'll never seem except if you accept to replay 95% of the same stuff. Ok ok, good points but very minor in fact.

For some reason you seem to be under the assumption that people here think Morrowind is the epitomy of a good RPG filled with choices and consequences. Where did you get this idea?

 

[Horag]

Jased : Too smart for me, I don't understand your pict.

Ok lets point it, sheep people just quoting "it's painful to read" are doing a so useless move, yeah and answer them do the same I know. It's a typical act to show you are member of the community, as if I care in any way. They have nothing interesting to answer that sort of post is so vain.

I don't throw all posts that tried to answer me in the same bag, from far. Some smart posts really point me why Oblivion could sucks or how some of my points was wrong. But sheeps posts always make me laugh, so vain and void.

EDIT : Dark Matter : The review is too long so I read it fully, read my first post I said "I tried". But partial reading of any ok review give you some idea of the game.

No Morrowind isn't the best CRPG ever. But it's surprising to read too many negative quotes that look quite similar to Morrowind and get the feeling Oblivion is a crap when I felt Morrowind good. But ok you could not admit I judge the review if I haven't read it fully, I understand that so I stop comment/mention the review.

 

[Jasede]

Actually, you are wrong. It's not "showing you're a part". It's just a way of expressing that one really can't be bothered arguing with you since the Codex has had discussions like this 354352323405943059 times in the past and the senior members are getting really tired of it. Think of that granky grandfather you once knew that says "Whassup?" to some young kid and the proceeds to ignore it. I'd give you a nice flame but I am too tired. Sorry.

 

[Vault Dweller]

The review let think that Oblivion is a total crap...

Pretty much.

...it's so hard to believe

Why is that? You've never seen "total crap" games before?

Vault Dweller : About real choice in CRPG, I'm an unbeliever, the reason is that you don't really see the choices unless when you replay the game either by reloading a previous save to see the difference, something weird that break the mood, either by replaying but when 95% of the stuff is the same it's not fun for me.

First, you see choices when they are presented to you. For example, there is a simple "remove the bandits blocking a bridge" in Arcanum. You can either kill them - a standard option, bribe them, talk them into leaving, pretend that you are a member of the Thieves Guild, forcing them to get out and even to pay you. What else? You can also get a counter quest from them instead - they want you to sabotage the efforts to build another bridge.

Or "get into the town" quest in Gothic 2. You can defeat the guards, you can bribe the guards, you can get farmer's clothes and pretend that you are one of the workers, you can obtain a pass from a trader in several ways, you can find a tricky way in if you really like exploring, and if I'm not mistaken, if you find enough ingredients if you can claim to be an alchemist. Quite a few options, no?

Second, play Arcanum. The choices and different options will blow you away.