Oblivion wasn't dumbed down for consoles sez Desslock

[bozia2012]

"Dungeons" in OB are pathethic - I'm sure you guys do remember how it was "DF style".
Graphics - I don't get it how people buy this shit about next-gen. The graphics are worse and slower than in HL2...
And what tha fuck is with this RAI? I played this crap for 2 weeks and didn't notice anything new, epic or ground breaking.
Combat - mindless whackin'. And can be extremely hard - just don't make your character a sword-wielding-mage and you're screwed. In DF I could play as a unarmed-unarmored monk with zero magic skill (no magic - no levitation, but you could climb walls if you wanted) - in OB once you gain lvl 20 combat becomes unbearable. Well if you like fighting 30mins (saving after each successful hit) with one opponent - but in OB it's still quantity over quality. Oh! Have you tried using a shield without a weapon?

But one of the dumbest thing is level scaling implementation. I mean quest reward are also scaled... unique items, artifacts... WTF? That is insane.
EDIT: I was lvl 4 when I had to fight 2 vampires while doin' Gray Prince quest. Both died after several hits. I also closed my first gate at lvl7. Killed lots of fully armored and armed (with shiny flaming swords) dremora but got nada.

 

[Elwro]

EDIT: I was lvl 4 when I had to fight 2 vampires while doin' Gray Prince quest. Both died after several hits.

Two? I only killed one - Lord Ludovicius or sth. Did I miss something?

I also closed my first gate at lvl7. Killed lots of fully armored and armed (with shiny flaming swords) dremora but got nada.

Yeah, saving Kvatch was the first thing I did after exiting the sewers. I guess I was level 2 while closing the gate and showing all the veteran soldiers how real men do it.

 

[User was nabbed fit]

But you are the chosen one! Or something like that.

 

[Admiral Rimjob POOBUM]

EDIT: I was lvl 4 when I had to fight 2 vampires while doin' Gray Prince quest. Both died after several hits.

Two? I only killed one - Lord Ludovicius or sth. Did I miss something?

I believe there are several minor vampires in the same dungeon.

I also closed my first gate at lvl7. Killed lots of fully armored and armed (with shiny flaming swords) dremora but got nada.

Yeah, saving Kvatch was the first thing I did after exiting the sewers. I guess I was level 2 while closing the gate and showing all the veteran soldiers how real men do it.

BEWARE the DREAD PRINCE OF DESTRUCTION and his TERRIBLE ARMY of STUNTED SCAMPS.

 

[elander_]

"Dungeons" in OB are pathethic - I'm sure you guys do remember how it was "DF style".

Yup. Daggerfall dungeons were like dungeons in rogue like games, big enough to get lost inside for days and in full glorious 3d and amazing light and sounds. There were about 1000 proceduraly generated dungeons that were handtweeked afterwards so that we allways get a new dungeon for every quest.

Oblivion dungeons are not only disfunctional and a waste of resources that could have been better used (to make skills work for example). It represents Todd Howard complete failure in understanding how Daggerfall dungeons work and its roots in rogue like games.

 

[bozia2012]

I believe there are "monster-type" vamps (not only "NPC-vamps"). They were "darkrobed" and casting skeleton summoning. But when I was playing that quest for the second time (with another character) there were only some skeletons...
Defeating those vampires was the first thing that made me wonder "what is wrong with this game?"

 

[DarkUnderlord]

EDIT: I was lvl 4 when I had to fight 2 vampires while doin' Gray Prince quest. Both died after several hits.

Two? I only killed one - Lord Ludovicius or sth. Did I miss something?

It depends on what decides to randomly load when you enter the basement area. First time through I hit three vampires. The third a nasty sorcerer type who did me in. Reloaded, went back through the same door only to find 1 vampire and 2 zombies.

I also closed my first gate at lvl7. Killed lots of fully armored and armed (with shiny flaming swords) dremora but got nada.

Yeah, saving Kvatch was the first thing I did after exiting the sewers. I guess I was level 2 while closing the gate and showing all the veteran soldiers how real men do it.

See, now I'm getting my arse absolutely caned at Kvatch. I took out the Oblivion gate without too much hassle, went through the castle and am now just up to the part where the Captain decides to send me off alone (after all that great teamwork) to get the Count. I open the door and run into 3 Fire Atronachs and I'm having a hard time just even killing one of the buggers. It seems to take about 30 hits to kill anything. I checked the sword and it's a new one I picked up, a Steel Longsword with 7 damage and is fully repaired. I swap weapons to one of the Daedra mace I have, same issue. So I slide the difficulty slider right the fuck down and it dies in two hits. Is this just because I made the mistake of levelling up before I went to Kvatch or am I missing something?

Oh, I'm a Vampire too so the whole weakness to fire thing isn't helping me health-wise but I'm talking about me hitting them and causing damage TO THEM. I can hit them all right and hit them lots of times but it's never for any real damage. I realise fatigue is involved and that any fight I get into I seem to make 3 swings and I've lost all my fatigue, I then get to go SHIELDS UP and wait for my fatigue to return before I can do much. That last bit of health for everything I fight seems to take a few whacks to go away too. Any combat I get into, I can usually get a good power strike in first and get things off to a nice start but after that, it's whack whack whack and I'm barely doing any damage. Try another power strike and I might get a smidge but seemingly nothing ever as dramatic or effective as that first strike. Is fatigue really the factor here? What am I not getting? Normally I would've thought "Oh, I haven't levelled up enough" and I'd head off and meander about and come back God-like but I have the feeling that's not going to help me much in this case. Or is it?

And while I'm here, wolves. Remember Cliff Racers and how much they sucked? Bethesda seems to think that if you call them wolves, all the problems go away. I don't think they realised that the problem wasn't that they flew or that they'd follow you. It was that they'd never STOP following you. They'd just run after you forever and ever and ever and never go away until you stopped, turned around and killed all of the ones that you'd managed to collect along the way. I can understand wolves being territorial animals but the AI really needs a point where it goes "Okay, I've just chased this fucker for X miles, it's time to give up, turn around and go home". Accept my retreat. Instead, they just keep after you until you stop, dismount, kill them all, remount and move on. Otherwise you take them right into the next town with you.

 

[Castanova]

I delayed going Kvatch and was like level 7 or so when I finally got around to it. The auto-leveling on the monsters meant that all my support units died almost instantly. In order to beat it, I had to exploit the fact that the one main NPC never dies and let him fight most everything. It involved a ton of running away.

For the final part, I, too, had no way of beating the monsters in combat so I did a combination of strategies: (1) lead monsters out of the end bit 1 by 1 and let my invincible NPC kill them (2) run like a son-of-a-bitch to pick up whatever item was necessary (i forget) and run like a son-of-a-whore out.

 

[Elwro]

I realise fatigue is involved and that any fight I get into I seem to make 3 swings and I've lost all my fatigue, I then get to go SHIELDS UP and wait for my fatigue to return before I can do much. That last bit of health for everything I fight seems to take a few whacks to go away too.

Heck, now that I've reached experience level 9 fights become more difficult. My tactic is this: BLOCK WHACK WHACK WHACK and when hps are low, block with shield and cast "Cure Light Wounds" like a madman. I typically use up all my Magicka and restore all my hps, because the opponent can't do me much harm when I block. Then as I fight, I lose hps again as my Magicka regenerates. Rinse & repeat.
And the opponent hp meter is so misleading I don't look at it anymore.


Also, as a side experience: IRRELEVANT SPOILER ABOUT A STUPID PAINTING QUEST being level 1 or 2 I decided to check out the news about painter's wife looking for her husband. Ok, eventually I get sucked into the painting. I begin to think "Whoa, now that looks like a swell quest so far". I meet the guy and learn about the escape method. Oooook, maybe I'll manage... but I only walked a few meters when a troll appeared and handed me my ass. I mean, I had no chance whatsoever, even with my bestest sword + poison + shield + a few reloads. I tried sneaking... no. No way. Frankly, I became frustrated at that point so maybe I missed a 1-meter wide path you could take and sneak past, but I really think the only option (and the one I took) was to reload a savegame from the city. Hell, just once where the game could scale the opponent (if not just allow for a peaceful solution), it doesn't do it.

edit: also, I killed daedras, but the fish in the lake (the ones from the "12 scales" quest) kill me sometimes.

 

[Greatatlantic]

I had trouble with the "step-into-the-painting" quest as well. I might have been around level 4 or 5, though it was so long ago. Anyways, I just kept lowering the difficulty slider and reloading and eventually beat it that way.

 

[dongle]

I believe there are "monster-type" vamps (not only "NPC-vamps").

Well, technically all vamps are NPCs, based on how they're put together in the editor. On the other hand anyone who has a generic name, like "bandit" or "bad-assed vampire-momma" is randomly generated from a list based on your level. Possible to have both NPCs and monsters on the same list. They don't "exist" until you enter the area, then it could be a crab or vamp, you never know. Re-load and it's different. Real uniquely named NPCs start out already there with jobs schedules and sets of goals. They are the same on every load, and pick up where they left off on your last save. Of course, some of them are vamps too. . . .

 

[dongle]

Is this just because I made the mistake of levelling up before I went to Kvatch or am I missing something?

That's an issue with the level scaling system. Monsters scale based on your level, yet that doesn’t necessarily reflect the power of your chosen attack. If you keep practicing your primary attack skill and level up that way you're cool. If you spend 5 or 10 level-ups picking flowers or practicing speechcraft or mercantile you get behind the eight-ball. Your "level" goes up, and the monsters scale accordingly, but you're not any better at swinging that sword. So you get your ass handed to you. I had the opposite problem. I pretty much concentrated on the bow and sword. I must have got ahead of the curve, 'cuz after hitting level 10 or so it got really easy. I breezed through the last half of the game without hardly dying at all. And I suck at gaming, truth be told.

So yeah. Run around on horseback with a big-assed sword killing shit, the way Todd wants you to, no problem. Try and play differently, and you're fucked.

 

[dongle]

Hell, just once where the game could scale the opponent (if not just allow for a peaceful solution), it doesn't do it.

They prolly didn't want to take the time to create painted crabs, painted imps, etc. so they just settled for the one troll.

 

[dongle]

Hang on just a fucking minute here. :shock:

All the regulars are starting to play Oblivion, and asking for neewbe playing tips? All the ESF fanboys are popping up and dissing Bethesda? Just what the hell is going on, did some aliens turn my world upside-down or something? :D

 

[Sovy Kurosei]

All the regulars are starting to play Oblivion, and asking for neewbe playing tips? All the ESF fanboys are popping up and dissing Bethesda? Just what the hell is going on, did some aliens turn my world upside-down or something? :D

You're moving into a land of both shadow and substance, of things and ideas. You've just crossed over into the Twilight Zone. :wink:

 

[Admiral Rimjob POOBUM]

Hang on just a fucking minute here. :shock:

All the regulars are starting to play Oblivion, and asking for neewbe playing tips? All the ESF fanboys are popping up and dissing Bethesda? Just what the hell is going on, did some aliens turn my world upside-down or something? :D

And Darkflame made a relatively intelligent post.

 

[Lumpy]

A very enjoyable part of Oblivion is the Dark Brotherhood. I couldn't finish it however, because it kinda reminded me of Thief. So I said "What the fuck? If I want Thief-like gameplay, I'll play Thief."

 

[VenomByte]

Has anyone figured out a way to make battles last less than three hours each yet?

If I play a mage, I want to be able to kill things with less than 300 fireballs and two full replenishments of my mana. I also want to die horribly if I let something dangerous looking get close to me.

Instead, I can take several whacks round the head from a troll before I have to worry about bnothering to move, but can my most mighty spell trouble him? Can it hell. I have to cat it continually for a good ten minutes.

If there were just a game setting to double or treble all damage dealt *and* recieved... anyone know of one?

 

[RK47]

just download the new oscuro mod and start a new game. The un-modded content is a piece of shit.

 

[Naked_Lunch]

A very enjoyable part of Oblivion is the Dark Brotherhood. I couldn't finish it however, because it kinda reminded me of Thief. So I said "What the fuck? If I want Thief-like gameplay, I'll play Thief."

Meh. In Thief, killing people was entirely optional and overall discouraged. In the DB, killing people was mandatory and there was no easier way to do it then go bursting in and murdering everyone in sight.

I'd say the Thieves Guild was a bit more like Thief

 

[Admiral Rimjob POOBUM]

A very enjoyable part of Oblivion is the Dark Brotherhood. I couldn't finish it however, because it kinda reminded me of Thief. So I said "What the fuck? If I want Thief-like gameplay, I'll play Thief."

I've been unable to take the Dark Brotherhood seriously since the Whodunit quest. I walked into a room with the Redguard, walked over with my sword out, drew back and slashed - his expression was something like "lol, y u stab me?"
Not TOO bad, I suppose. I turned, bloody sword in hand, and left the room to find myself facing the old lady. "Thar's been a murrdarrrr," she bleated.
Now, if I walked past a room and found the door opened by a menacing, fully armoured Dunmer with a blood-soaked sword in his hand, a dead body lying upside-down on the floor behind him, my reaction would not be "oh, %PCName, did yuo here abot teh murdar? it cant bin u, lol, ur good at selecting big slices from the magic persuasion pie".

 

[Excrément]

compared to Morrowind and Daggerfall, Oblivion was not dumbed down.
Compared to what rpgcodexers might expect according to their RPG standards, yeah Oblivion is dumbed down as Morrowind and Daggerfall were (except these two games were for their time more original but still dumbed down in a pure RPG point of view).

 

[stargelman]

compared to Morrowind and Daggerfall, Oblivion was not dumbed down.
Compared to what rpgcodexers might expect according to their RPG standards, yeah Oblivion is dumbed down as Morrowind and Daggerfall were (except these two games were for their time more original but still dumbed down in a pure RPG point of view).

Not true. Morrowind had no idiotic journal popups or quest compass, no voice-overs for the illiterate, and not all the dialog was made exclusively as a vehicle for quests without any backstory worth mentioning. It also focused less on action.

Daggerfall made many attempts to be a quality RPG. There was an enormous amount of skills for really obscure things, a complex plot, geenormous dungeons, lots of politics and a world so big you could drown in it. It may not have succeeded in all it set out to achieve, but it was a really good game nevertheless.

Now, Oblivion..it feels like they didn't even try. They just stringed up little gee-action-gaming bits like perls on a necklace, hopeing that would be enough. "Hey this is fun, and this is fun, this'll be a great RPG!"

 

[Naked_Lunch]

compared to Morrowind and Daggerfall, Oblivion was not dumbed down.

Not matter your opinion on the games, this comment should get the poster dumbfucked.

Daggerfall was anything but dumbed down. It took the already semi-complex elements of Arena and pumped them full of steroids and added many new things. In fact, Daggerfall is the one of the prime examples of how to do a sequel. It took everythng and added on to it, and then made some brand new things.

 

[Excrément]

compared to Morrowind and Daggerfall, Oblivion was not dumbed down.

Not matter your opinion on the games, this comment should get the poster dumbfucked.

Daggerfall was anything but dumbed down. It took the already semi-complex elements of Arena and pumped them full of steroids and added many new things. In fact, Daggerfall is the one of the prime examples of how to do a sequel. It took everythng and added on to it, and then made some brand new things.

daggerfall was basically hack and slash in infinite dungeons with huge statistics instead of role playing skill.
but I love hack and slash, I love statistics (I am taking some actuary lessons), and I love inifinite repeatitive world (I like to wander around in google earth to trak ben laden). so that's why Daggerfall is one of my favorite game.
but if I do understand well the RPG standards of the codexers (choice and consequences, role-playing skills...), Daggerfall isn't a RPG. so it's not "dumbed down" compared to arena, but it isn't a rpg either.

I would appreciate to get the dumbfuck label. that will make me "special" and I would be able to brag about that when I will try to woo a chick.