Obsidian General Discussion Thread

[ColCol]

So... when does that South Park RPG come out?

Google says march 5, 2013. So, I guess we missed its release.

 

[Vault Dweller]

At 120 employees I'm sure their burn rate can't be far off (or in excess of) 1 million USD per month, they would need to do a lot of kickstarters to last until Eternity is finished.

What?

If the average salary at Obsidian is 50,000, that would be $6,000,000 per year to pay the employees. So, that 3 mill could cover them for a good 5-6 months.

We're also not taking into account any of their own assets they may have saved up to help them weather tough economic times. I doubt Obsidian needs all 120 people working on that game.

http://www.gamespot.com/news/obsidian-on-the-right-way-to-fight-used-game-sales-6343997

Feargus Urquhart: I think it depends on your perspective. I think originally you could be an indie developer and not really have to be a business man. And I wouldn't say that I'm a business man, but I have some of the traits that go along with that. And I have had to learn a lot of things about accounting, and taxes, and other things to a point. I think in the past, it was possible to be effective without being really focused on business because the teams were much smaller. If you were eight guys and you made a bunch of money on your previous product, you can go six months without signing a deal. Our burn rate is $1 million a month, so we have to have games all the time. I am not independently wealthy, so I think a lot of it is harder now if you don't understand that you really have to focus on the business side.

 

[J_C]

So... when does that South Park RPG come out?

At the end of the year.

 

[DragoFireheart]

At 120 employees I'm sure their burn rate can't be far off (or in excess of) 1 million USD per month, they would need to do a lot of kickstarters to last until Eternity is finished.

What?

If the average salary at Obsidian is 50,000, that would be $6,000,000 per year to pay the employees. So, that 3 mill could cover them for a good 5-6 months.

We're also not taking into account any of their own assets they may have saved up to help them weather tough economic times. I doubt Obsidian needs all 120 people working on that game.

http://www.gamespot.com/news/obsidian-on-the-right-way-to-fight-used-game-sales-6343997

Feargus Urquhart: I think it depends on your perspective. I think originally you could be an indie developer and not really have to be a business man. And I wouldn't say that I'm a business man, but I have some of the traits that go along with that. And I have had to learn a lot of things about accounting, and taxes, and other things to a point. I think in the past, it was possible to be effective without being really focused on business because the teams were much smaller. If you were eight guys and you made a bunch of money on your previous product, you can go six months without signing a deal. Our burn rate is $1 million a month, so we have to have games all the time. I am not independently wealthy, so I think a lot of it is harder now if you don't understand that you really have to focus on the business side.

Well, the math isn't adding up to me then. How are they able to keep 120 people at that rate? I haven't seen any projects they are working on besides the kickstarter game.

(South Park game as well.)

 

[tuluse]

They have around 12 people working on PE, so they'd need to run 10 kickstarter projects concurrently to employ all 120 people.

Well, the math isn't adding up to me then. How are they able to keep 120 people at that rate? I haven't seen any projects they are working on besides the kickstarter game.

(South Park game as well.)

Is it really that hard to read the thread you're posting in? Maybe just the OP?

 

[DragoFireheart]

Is it really that hard to read the thread you're posting in? Maybe just the OP?

Apparently it is. I have a mental filter to block the following words:

Commie
Communist
Russia

I apologize for my stupidity.

 

[circ]

I had a dream about MCA tuesday night I think. A bunch of guys - whom I assume to have been the Codex - were gathered in a warehouse - which doubled as the Obsidian offices - with backpacks and sleeping bags, apparently camping there at the loading dock for some reason. I don't know what Obsidian needs a loading dock for, but hey, warehouse. Suddenly in the distance, we see MCA. He's shouting at some employee and ripping him a new asshole. All the guys feel sad. MCA is an asshole. Then I woke up.

 

[Tigranes]

ITT DragoFireheart has no idea how games companies work, or what Obsidian is doing, or what Obsidian has said, or what other people have told him.

I'm not actually sure I want them to be ~120, it feels like they'd be able to become more focused and do more of what they're best at if they were going for 1+1 or 2+1 project pipelines. But then I don't know enough about game dev-specific aspects of scaling up/down, I assume that they feel it is a good 'medium-size', especially when they need to bulk up for AAA games.

 

[DragoFireheart]

ITT DragoFireheart has no idea how games companies work, or what Obsidian is doing, or what Obsidian has said, or what other people have told him.

I don't think I was claiming otherwise.

 

[Tigranes]

Being aware of your ignorance doesn't excuse your ignorance, so that was an entirely pointless exertion.

 

[DragoFireheart]

Being aware of your ignorance doesn't excuse your ignorance, so that was an entirely pointless exertion.

I wasn't claiming that either. If you'll notice, I actually APOLOGIZED. Maybe you should learn from my mistakes rather than repeating them like a Biodrone buying Mass Effect 3 DLCs hoping for that "corrected" ending.

I'm not actually sure I want them to be ~120, it feels like they'd be able to become more focused and do more of what they're best at if they were going for 1+1 or 2+1 project pipelines. But then I don't know enough about game dev-specific aspects of scaling up/down, I assume that they feel it is a good 'medium-size', especially when they need to bulk up for AAA games.

They were talking about making a deal with EA to make a Star Wars game.

 

[Tigranes]

Uh...yes, exactly?

 

[DragoFireheart]

Uh...yes, exactly?

It's a pretty big mistake. EA is going to look at what Bethesda did and do that ten-fold.

 

[Infinitron]

Uh...yes, exactly?

It's a pretty big mistake. EA is going to look at what Bethesda did and do that ten-fold.

So, give Obsidian ten times as much money to make a game so they can pay their employees' wages?

Again, Bethesda didn't harm Obsidian. They just screwed them out of a bonus. You know what "bonus" means, right?

 

[DragoFireheart]

So, give Obsidian ten times as much money to make a game so they can pay their employees' wages?

Again, Bethesda didn't harm Obsidian. They just screwed them out of a bonus. You know what "bonus" means, right?

What I meant was they are going to screw them over more than just their bonuses. EA is in a much better position than Obsidian so why not?

 

[Rake]

So, give Obsidian ten times as much money to make a game so they can pay their employees' wages?

Again, Bethesda didn't harm Obsidian. They just screwed them out of a bonus. You know what "bonus" means, right?

What I meant was they are going to screw them over more than just their bonuses. EA is in a much better position than Obsidian so why not?

Doesn't matter as long as it pays the bills. My feel is that this is a turning point for Obsidian. They just have to last one-two years more. When PE get's out they will have a game that generates steady income (discarding the first months' sales) to stabilize their company and don't just lay off every other project. Then they can fund PE 2 by themselves(15-20 persons), and kickstart a new IP (15 persons).
If you put AAA crap into the mix, 120 persons isn't unmanagable any more.
And Avellone said that he hopes to a time that they can develop 3-4 PE sized games (kickstarted and self funded) at the same time like Black Isle days.
So at this point Obsidian just wants whatever projects they can get (russian F2P included) to survive just a little more

 

[Azarkon]

You're never safe running a 120 development house without a big IP. 20-30 people, Kickstarters all the way baby. But Obsidian needs that next-gen RPG, MMO deal, and South Park RPG to do well.

I wonder where the bulk of their work force is used. Do we have insiders?

 

[Xor]

First of all, Obsidian isn't exactly defenseless. They have people who have been in the industry for decades. And they have some experience getting actually screwed over by publishers, like with KOTOR 2. I'm sure they pay close attention to any contracts a publisher puts in front of them, and they make sure whatever contracts they take will pay the bills long enough to actually make the game.

Secondly, I don't think Bethesda really screwed Obsidian over. My understanding was that they missed the metacritic score they needed to get a bonus by one point. That speaks more to how fucked it is to use metacritic as a metric for quality than anything else. Bethesda isn't the only publisher to use metacritic, as far as I'm aware it's an industry standard practice. It was also pretty apparent to me that the gaming media is slightly bias against Obsidian, marking down New Vegas for being buggy when it really wasn't at release. At the very least, not moreso than any given Bethesda game. That's a whole other issue though.

EA isn't going to put a gun to Obsidian's head and force them to develop a AAA COD clone with DLC and bioware-style romances. Obsidian will want to focus on their strengths so they can make a good game and have a better shot at getting any bonuses offered, and EA will want them to make a good game so it will make a profit.

 

[Rake]

You're never safe running a 120 development house without a big IP. 20-30 people, Kickstarters all the way baby. But Obsidian needs that next-gen RPG, MMO deal, and South Park RPG to do well.

I wonder where the bulk of their work force is used. Do we have insiders?

Well, i think that is a given.Obsidian will never abandon the AAA stare completelly. The point is that they will no longer be depended of that and at the mercy of every publiser out there.

 

[Tigranes]

It's pretty evident that the balance Obsidian is hoping for is something like one AAA game in the works, one PE-style game in the works, then one or two things in pre-production (or, well, MMO outsource work, I guess). I'm totally fine with seeing more NWN2s or even South Parks along with a P:E franchise of several games, etc. It will get even better if publishers do start to contact Obsidian for mid-sized new IP work, or even reviving old IPs in this spirit.

The only real point is whether they shouldn't just get out of AAAs, which would require them to cut, well, nearly a hundred people, maybe a bit less. I think it's premature - there's still two or three years before even the best scenario where P:E sells well, Kickstarter proves itself, publishers get interested, etc.

 

[imweasel]

It was also pretty apparent to me that the gaming media is slightly bias against Obsidian, marking down New Vegas for being buggy when it really wasn't at release.

I can't remember any major quests bugs or anything, but New Vegas had MAJOR performance issues and was practically unplayable out of the box. It was only half-assed playable if you spent the time to edit the .ini files.

 

[Average Manatee]

It was also pretty apparent to me that the gaming media is slightly bias against Obsidian, marking down New Vegas for being buggy when it really wasn't at release.

I can't remember any major quests bugs or anything, but New Vegas had MAJOR performance issues and was practically unplayable out of the box. It was only half-assed playable if you spent the time to edit the .ini files.

I never had such problems. As far as I can tell it was exactly the same engine as Fallout 3 except with some bugs fixed. But because Obsidian isn't Bethesda they get 7/10 buggy piece of shit instead of 10/10 best game ever.

 

[Roguey]

I never had such problems. As far as I can tell it was exactly the same engine as Fallout 3 except with some bugs fixed. But because Obsidian isn't Bethesda they get 7/10 buggy piece of shit instead of 10/10 best game ever.

NV had major problems on release but they were fixed with patches. Bethesda shouldn't have moved the release date up.

 

[2house2fly]

NV had major problems on release but they were fixed with patches. Bethesda shouldn't have moved the release date up.

did they? I've never heard about that before, just that Bethesda skimped on QA. I do remember Sawyer saying on Formspring that one time Obsidian found out a game's release date by seeing an ad for it a few months in advance, and wondering what game that was.

Also, New Vegas is certainly a lot better after patches but I'd hesitate to describe it as "fixed".

 

[Sensuki]

They have around 12 people working on PE

Nah about 20-25 currently.

Josh Sawyer, Tim Cain, Adam Brennecke, Chris Avellone, Eric Fenstermaker, Polina Hristova, Kazunori Aruga, Rob Nesler, Jorge Salgado, Bobby Null, Hector Espinoza, Sean Dunny, James Chea, Antonio Gonvela, Mark Bremerkamp, Dimitri Berman, Brandon Adler, Steve Weatherly and in the last update Polina said they have added extra personnel in design (probs refering to Bobby, Jorge and Eric), modelling and animation. They also recently hired a new environment artist so it's fair to say that he will be on the P:E team too.