Development Info Obsidian going down to South Park

[Volrath]

Also, I think a Barbie RPG could have potential. It would at least be something new. Seriously, don't just look at the word BARBIE and rage. Use your mind and your imagination. If I put a gun to your head and said come up with a design for a Barbie RPG that would be fun to play, I bet you could do it.

Holy fuck, this quote is gold!

WHO IN THEIR GODDAMN FUCKING MIND WOULD WANT TO PLAY IN THE WORLD OF BARBIE GODDAMIT?!

For fuck's sake, this whole "Gameplay or death!!!" mentality is totally retarded, people want emotionally engaging games and as such their worlds need to be too and guess fucking what, South Park's and fucking Barbie's ARE NOT (as well as MotB's and New Vegas' for that matter).

I can't for the love of God comprehend how it is that people as creatively stale as this dumbfuck are even hired to make games in the first place.

Shit, whatever, Obsidian makes dead-world games anyway so they're actually perfect for the task of execrating a South Park RPG-adventure abomination.

Our resident artfag makes a triumphant return.

 

[Crooked Bee]

*snip*

Great post, thanks for the analysis!

I definitely agree, even if I would really, really like Obsidian (or any other studio for that matter) to make something comparable to, say, Earthbound or even Paper Mario, yet in a more "western" way. But it's one helluva task to pull something like that off, and no one among the Obsidianites has any experience making those kind of games, as far as I know, which makes it double tough for them.

 

[Sannom]

While I'm not certain if this game will be up my alley, it's safe to say this is not going to be a game for the hardcore cRPG fan in any way, shape, or form. This has SLAM DUNK written all over it, moreso than Lionheart, Dark Alliance, or DungSeige ever did.

When will people on this board learn what a SLAM DUNK! really is? It seems that whenever Obsidian makes a game that doesn't fit with the Codex' expectations, they call it a SLAM DUNK! . So far only KOTOR 2, Fallout: New Vegas and Neverwinter Nights 2 (if you really want to be picky) were SLAM DUNK! by Obsidian.

 

[Edward_R_Murrow]

@Also ERM Read Anthony Davis posts for fucks sake. I already asked him about how much Obsidian is involved in the project.

Bro, are you talking about Obsidian's involvement in the writing? I know they have a hand in writing parts of the game, but I still don't expect to see them cram it full of jokes targeted at the hardcore cRPG crowd. At best there will be a few minor references, probably in some "grumpy-old-man" character complaining about how things aren't as great as they were back in the good old days. They aren't going to make a ton of jokes the South Park fanbase will totally miss to satisfy a tiny minority akin to the Codex.

When will people on this board learn what a SLAM DUNK! really is? It seems that whenever Obsidian makes a game that doesn't fit with the Codex' expectations, they call it a SLAM DUNK! . So far only KOTOR 2, Fallout: New Vegas and Neverwinter Nights 2 (if you really want to be picky) were SLAM DUNK! by Obsidian.

Lionheart was a joke...probably not the best way to start off a listing. My bad.

Anyway, my understanding of a SLAM DUNK! was that is was a game which could be made relatively cheaply and/or leveraged a successful, established IP that would guarantee cashmoney inflow. South Park seems totally like this with great savings on developing art assets/world building/characterization and a HYOOOOGE IP behind it.

 

[Fens]

so obsidian pulled a monty python spanish inquisition, eh ?

It seems that RPG, to Parker and Stone, isn't Wizardy/Ultima/Fallout/BG, but jRPGs and newer stuff like WoW, Mass Effect, and Dragon Age.

there was even a WoW south park episode... and i'm amazed they are trying to cash in with another SP single player title instead of a MMO-quick-hack...

anyway... i think we won't see much character development or engaging story in this one (or C&C: there's a new kenny each episode)... might still turn out to be a decent adventure game

might have been a better idea to go with a character specific mission driven GTA-clone like The Simpsons: Hit & Run

 

[circ]

While I'm not certain if this game will be up my alley, it's safe to say this is not going to be a game for the hardcore cRPG fan in any way, shape, or form. This has SLAM DUNK written all over it, moreso than Lionheart, Dark Alliance, or DungSeige ever did.

When will people on this board learn what a SLAM DUNK! really is? It seems that whenever Obsidian makes a game that doesn't fit with the Codex' expectations, they call it a SLAM DUNK! . So far only KOTOR 2, Fallout: New Vegas and Neverwinter Nights 2 (if you really want to be picky) were SLAM DUNK! by Obsidian.

Yeah no dude. People don't call it a SLAM DUNK because of how good or bad the game is, but because it's a quote from Feargus described by Ed above. This philosophy of game making maybe, along with just plain crap coding, has rendered the majority of their games bug-ridden unplayable shit. DS3 was relatively bug-free I hear, unless you count the controls, no way to change them initially, wank camera, retarded MP, etc. Business as usual.

 

[Roguey]

WHO IN THEIR GODDAMN FUCKING MIND WOULD WANT TO PLAY IN THE WORLD OF BARBIE GODDAMIT?!

I would. Life in plastic, it's fantastic.

They'd need to be able to take a combat system that doesn't have a lot of depth and squeeze the most out of it with well designed encounters, fun "set piece" fights, and a good sense of pacing in the encounter rate. And if you've played Obsidian games you know they fail in these departments.

I thought DS3 did a decent job of those things. Particularly the bosses.

 

[IronicNeurotic]

Anyway, my understanding of a SLAM DUNK! was that is was a game which could be made relatively cheaply and/or leveraged a successful, established IP that would guarantee cashmoney inflow. South Park seems totally like this with great savings on developing art assets/world building/characterization and a HYOOOOGE IP behind it.

Close, but I would say not exactly. Slam Dunk is making a game focused on content with as little to no extra costs. Meaning same engine/(mostly) same art assets and so on. So to make a rundown:

Knights of the Old Republic 2 = Slam Dunk
NWN2 = (Half) a Slam Dunk
Alpha Protocol = Not a Slam Dunk
New Vegas = Like Fallout 2 THE Slam-Dunk.
DSIII = Not a slam dunk (As everything was made from the ground up, except the story building up on previous games)
South Park RPG = Not a Slam Dunk (Successful IP BUT everything has to be done from the ground up regarding the game)

 

[IronicNeurotic]

@Also ERM Read Anthony Davis posts for fucks sake. I already asked him about how much Obsidian is involved in the project.

Bro, are you talking about Obsidian's involvement in the writing? I know they have a hand in writing parts of the game, but I still don't expect to see them cram it full of jokes targeted at the hardcore cRPG crowd. At best there will be a few minor references, probably in some "grumpy-old-man" character complaining about how things aren't as great as they were back in the good old days. They aren't going to make a ton of jokes the South Park fanbase will totally miss to satisfy a tiny minority akin to the Codex.

Wanna bet that there is more than that? Especially in Sidequests?

Nono, better idea:

Do you want to bet that there is at least 1/a few specific Troika refrences?

Looser has to quote the bet in his signature or something similiar.

 

[Sannom]

Anyway, my understanding of a SLAM DUNK! was that is was a game which could be made relatively cheaply and/or leveraged a successful, established IP that would guarantee cashmoney inflow. South Park seems totally like this with great savings on developing art assets/world building/characterization and a HYOOOOGE IP behind it.

Refer to IronicNeurotic's post above, he explains it better.

 

[circ]

Anyway, my understanding of a SLAM DUNK! was that is was a game which could be made relatively cheaply and/or leveraged a successful, established IP that would guarantee cashmoney inflow. South Park seems totally like this with great savings on developing art assets/world building/characterization and a HYOOOOGE IP behind it.

Close, but I would say not exactly. Slam Dunk is making a game focused on content with as little to no extra costs. Meaning same engine/(mostly) same art assets and so on. So to make a rundown:

Knights of the Old Republic 2 = Slam Dunk
NWN2 = (Half) a Slam Dunk
Alpha Protocol = Not a Slam Dunk
New Vegas = Like Fallout 2 THE Slam-Dunk.
DSIII = Not a slam dunk (As everything was made from the ground up, except the story building up on previous games)
South Park RPG = Not a Slam Dunk (Successful IP BUT everything has to be done from the ground up regarding the game)

No no. That wasn't Feargus original intent. I don't know what to call you other than an Obsidian apologist.

Anyway, how is NWN2 just half a SLAM DUNK? It used the Aurora engine and all the art assets were pulled from peoples asses, as first time modders could outdo what it did. Half the soundtrack was recycled. Extremely short release cycle. Sounds like a full SLAM DUNK to me.

AP used the Unreal engine, art assets almost ripped pixel by pixel from Mass Effect. Tiresome level design. Short release cycle again. SLAM DUNK.

DS3 - crap, short release cycle. SLAM DUNK.

SP RPG - it will be out in a year. Or canceled. Possible SLAM DUNK.

 

[IronicNeurotic]

Anyway, my understanding of a SLAM DUNK! was that is was a game which could be made relatively cheaply and/or leveraged a successful, established IP that would guarantee cashmoney inflow. South Park seems totally like this with great savings on developing art assets/world building/characterization and a HYOOOOGE IP behind it.

Close, but I would say not exactly. Slam Dunk is making a game focused on content with as little to no extra costs. Meaning same engine/(mostly) same art assets and so on. So to make a rundown:

Knights of the Old Republic 2 = Slam Dunk
NWN2 = (Half) a Slam Dunk
Alpha Protocol = Not a Slam Dunk
New Vegas = Like Fallout 2 THE Slam-Dunk.
DSIII = Not a slam dunk (As everything was made from the ground up, except the story building up on previous games)
South Park RPG = Not a Slam Dunk (Successful IP BUT everything has to be done from the ground up regarding the game)

No no. That wasn't Feargus original intent. I don't know what to call you other than an Obsidian apologist.

Anyway, how is NWN2 just half a SLAM DUNK? It used the Aurora engine and all the art assets were pulled from peoples asses, as first time modders could outdo what it did. Half the soundtrack was recycled. Extremely short release cycle. Sounds like a full SLAM DUNK to me.

AP used the Unreal engine, art assets almost ripped pixel by pixel from Mass Effect. Tiresome level design. Short release cycle again. SLAM DUNK.

DS3 - crap, short release cycle. SLAM DUNK.

SP RPG - it will be out in a year. Or canceled. Possible SLAM DUNK.

I called it half because its still debatable. And if a game is "crap" in your eyes has nothing, absolutly nothing to do with it beeing a slam-dunk. That doesn't even make fucking sense.

I'm pretty sure you have no idea what was the original intent.

So, really. Just shut it.

Edit: A slam dunk is when everythings handed to you and you just have to get it in. The Slam Dunk is a buisness tactic by Feargus to get high sales while minimizing all possible costs.

 

[J_C]

SLAM DUNK here, SLAM DUNK there... Could someone tell me what SLAM DUNK means? I think I am falling behind in the language evolution race.

 

[circ]

I called it half because its still debatable. And if a game is "crap" in your eyes has nothing, absolutly nothing to do with it beeing a slam-dunk. That doesn't even make fucking sense.

I'm pretty sure you have no idea what was the original intent.

So, really. Just shut it.

Edit: A slam dunk is when everythings handed to you and you just have to get it in. The Slam Dunk is a buisness tactic by Feargus to get high sales while minimizing all possible costs.

Ok, let's do DS3, as crap isn't apt enough a description for some people.

Original engine, but with a wank camera to save resources. I don't know what the engine is cabable of, but let's look at what they threw into DS3. Recycled art resources. Every single bandit mob and there are a lot of them, uses the same resources, from model, textures to animations, and most of the time there aren't even animations for some pretty important things like hit feedback. Towns and houses are there just for scenery, and in every case, are copy-paste jobs. Now this could be said for a lot of games, but you know, it depends on the design, and I'm not sure any went into towns like Stonebridge, with the exact same female model and goblin model running around in repeating scenery. The same goes for the very spartan outdoors areas. The only place with any thought seemed to be the ghost mansion, but that quest is probably still bugged. The combat effects seemed to be clip-art, and the so-called advanced combat consisted of spamming dodge and hitting the other guy until your specials filled up, at which point you hit a special and repated the process. There's plenty more, but I hope that clears up crap for you.

 

[IronicNeurotic]

I called it half because its still debatable. And if a game is "crap" in your eyes has nothing, absolutly nothing to do with it beeing a slam-dunk. That doesn't even make fucking sense.

I'm pretty sure you have no idea what was the original intent.

So, really. Just shut it.

Edit: A slam dunk is when everythings handed to you and you just have to get it in. The Slam Dunk is a buisness tactic by Feargus to get high sales while minimizing all possible costs.

Ok, let's do DS3, as crap isn't apt enough a description for some people.

Original engine, but with a wank camera to save resources. I don't know what the engine is cabable of, but let's look at what they threw into DS3. Recycled art resources. Every single bandit mob and there are a lot of them, uses the same resources, from model, textures to animations, and most of the time there aren't even animations for some pretty important things like hit feedback. Towns and houses are there just for scenery, and in every case, are copy-paste jobs. Now this could be said for a lot of games, but you know, it depends on the design, and I'm not sure any went into towns like Stonebridge, with the exact same female model and goblin model running around in repeating scenery. The same goes for the very spartan outdoors areas. The only place with any thought seemed to be the ghost mansion, but that quest is probably still bugged. The combat effects seemed to be clip-art, and the so-called advanced combat consisted of spamming dodge and hitting the other guy until your specials filled up, at which point you hit a special and repated the process. There's plenty more, but I hope that clears up crap for you.

Yes, DSIII was a very cost efficent project. Still not a Slam Dunk as all of that stuff still had to be created and wasn't copied from previous sources.

Also I disagree with half of that and the other half is in a lot of games. Repeating models isn't exactly the most unique thing ever.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Feargus: "That brings us to June of 2001. We then tried to ramp up TORN, because it was obviously in trouble and pretty much everyone that wasn't working on the new game went to work on that project. Then with Interplay's financial problems, we layed some people off and cancelled TORN. So that I could retain as much of Black Isle as I could, I had to come up with a project that could be finished relatively quickly and was a slam dunk with very little to no risk of it getting done on time. That project is the Monroe project [Icewind Dale 2] which we are announcing within the week."

 

[IronicNeurotic]

Feargus: "That brings us to June of 2001. We then tried to ramp up TORN, because it was obviously in trouble and pretty much everyone that wasn't working on the new game went to work on that project. Then with Interplay's financial problems, we layed some people off and cancelled TORN. So that I could retain as much of Black Isle as I could, I had to come up with a project that could be finished relatively quickly and was a slam dunk with very little to no risk of it getting done on time. That project is the Monroe project [Icewind Dale 2] which we are announcing within the week."

I remember the "slam dunk" comment beeing older than that. (Pre-2000)

Otherwise I completly spanked there and thought about something else.


But, in that case. Which Obsidian projects were slam-dunks?

KOTOR2 = Time-problems
NWN2 = Time-problems
Alpha Protocol = HUGE time problems
New Vegas = Possible Slam Dunk (Though Ulysseus who was a big part of the main game got cut out. So, time problems.)
DSIII = Slam Dunk
South Park RPG = No idea

That means DSIII was the only Slam Dunk so far?

Edit: Not even DSIII in that case as better Multiplayer/PC-Controls fell out of the time table.

So, no Slam Dunk at all?

 

[Jaesun]

The thing right now with Obsidian is now they have:

1. The Onyx engine. It is complete.
2. They can now take offers and just re-tool and add art assets and levels as required for the game being made.
3. With dev time significantly slashed because of the Onyx engine, they can now make games more cheaply (very appealing to a Publisher).

Them making this SP game is actually a slam dunk. And this bodes well for more titles from them.

Hopefully they can actually DO a deep tactical party based cRPG along the lines of say Icewind Dale 3 as they can now pitch offers that are very appealing to Publishers. Provided that is the type of game Obsidian would like to do.......

 

[Vault Dweller]

So, no Slam Dunk at all?

No slam dunks at all, unless you count the DLCs.

 

[Forest Dweller]

1eyedking: TOTAL SHIT.

 

[Vault Dweller]

The thing right now with Obsidian is now they have:

1. The Onyx engine. It is complete.
2. They can now take offers and just re-tool and add art assets and levels as required for the game being made.
3. With dev time significantly slashed because of the Onyx engine, they can now make games more cheaply (very appealing to a Publisher).

Them making this SP game is actually a slam dunk. And this bodes well for more titles from them.

Um, no.

You put too much emphasis on having an engine. Obsidian had Aurora, Odyssey, and whatever FO3 engine was called, plus the art assets, character, combat, and other systems that came with them. Didn't make these games "slam dunks", did they?

The SP game will have different, well, pretty much everything, so it's a LOT of work, no matter how you look at it.

Hopefully they can actually DO a deep tactical party based cRPG along the lines of say Icewind Dale 3 as they can now pitch offers that are very appealing to Publishers.

You can't use "deep tactical RPG" and "very appealing to publishers" in the same sentence.

 

[Awor Szurkrarz]

There are some RPGs with deep tactical combat besides JA2?

 

[IronicNeurotic]

Anthony if you are still reading. How did the deal come to be?

THQ asked or did the South Park guys want you too?

 

[Elwro]

SP is hit'n'miss, OK, but throughout the years Parker & Stone have in my opinion proven to be extremely intelligent and funny satirists, with genuine musical talent, too. I still remember plots of some of the best episodes, these were little masterpieces of animated narrative. And Obsidian seems to be the only game development company which has the intellectual capacity to create a good game based on the series. For me it's great news - as for RPGs, of course I'd prefer KotC 2, but that's another thing.

 

[hiver]

I know what Hitler would say about this....