Interview Obsidian Media Blitz: Pillars of Eternity II and Tyranny: Bastard's Wound Interviews

[Iznaliu]

I personally always got tiresome with origin stories. I think they are the worse cockblock moments in video gaming. Always showing up to your eyes with forced dialogues to show you what this char or location is all about. Every time I started another run I get to force do same old things. It's this very long tutorial section.

What conquest mode allows to do are:

• Begin a story, not from amnesia or another level 1 reasons but right from where you want to start.
• More rememberable and involvement rather than a CGI or dumb training hub area.

What I would like to have in conquest mode:

• Few roguelike elements. Maybe the actual soldier, supplies numbers changing.
• Longer aftermath.

Wtf am I reading? If you don't like dialogues go play fucking skyrim, then you won't be forced to talk... But I guess you are already playing it (fucking retard).

What the fuck am I reading indeed.

 

[Gay-Lussac]

About those returning companions -- he explained that the choice was largely determined by story. Edér was a no-brainer because Eothas, and Pallegina because of her allegiance to the Vailian republics -- the Vailian Trading Company is one of the major factions, so she's a natural fit to be one of their agents there.

I would imagine it would have been pretty easy to have Kana return, since he has a similar relationship to Rauatai as Pallegina has to the Vailians, but of course they decided on having her ranger sister there instead already a while back. None of the other companions have as obvious a reason to be involved, including Aloth, which made fitting him in a bit trickier. Even Sagani got a happily-ever-after-with-the-fam type ending if you completed her quest, although she is technically from the Deadfire.

FWIW my hype level moved up a cautious notch. I especially dig what he said about exploration and ship stuff -- while naval combat will certainly be a side dish, it sounds like fun and the kind of little thing that can make a game memorable and give it character -- and the intra-party relationships and faction mechanics sound cool too. At this point I'm only expecting to hate the everything-per-encounter thing, and if that's the worst thing wrong with the game it could turn out... rather good really.

I can imagine Aloth's inclusion might be related to the fact he's voiced by Matt Mercer, same as Eder, who was already going to be in no matter what.

 

[Ruzen]

I personally always got tiresome with origin stories. I think they are the worse cockblock moments in video gaming. Always showing up to your eyes with forced dialogues to show you what this char or location is all about. Every time I started another run I get to force do same old things. It's this very long tutorial section.

What conquest mode allows to do are:

• Begin a story, not from amnesia or another level 1 reasons but right from where you want to start.
• More rememberable and involvement rather than a CGI or dumb training hub area.

What I would like to have in conquest mode:

• Few roguelike elements. Maybe the actual soldier, supplies numbers changing.
• Longer aftermath.

Wtf am I reading? If you don't like dialogues go play fucking skyrim, then you won't be forced to talk... But I guess you are already playing it (fucking retard).

First of all, I don't like to argue with trigger word people as yourself (just like SJW peps), thinking: If you don't like dialogues go play Skyrim. Just because I don't like them in forced origin starts in RPG. I'm playing RPG's by not doing all the quests, not trying to press every dialogue options If I don't feel the char I'm playing wouldn't be intrested doing those. In origin stories, everything is same after you start over and you don't read or listen them twice and becomes skippable sequences. I don't have anything against power games, this is how I play and this is my opinion.

Side note about your rage teen kid shit style posts. I think you have to do better. There is no clever sarcasm or intelligence in your shit posts. This act you pulling is not quirky at all. Unlike others.

 

[Prime Junta]

But he is fire. He is death.

 

[Invictus]

But he is fire. He is death.

Poor Bloodfart... always trying to be edgy and wiseassy but undoubtably comes across as a angsty teenager... hell I bet he doesn't even care about the games discussed here

 

[Glop_dweller]

I'm playing RPG's by not doing all the quests, not trying to press every dialogue options If I don't feel the char I'm playing wouldn't be intrested doing those.

That's about the only legitimate way to play an RPG IMO. While others may scoff at any mention of 'the proper way to play'—any game, there is (I think) a proper way to design them. I would certainly hope for and prefer it if RPG-devs actually designed their RPGs around this method as the intended and expected way to play; (ie. polar opposite to Bethesda's philosophy of game design & marketing). Let people play it however they wish... but don't design the core experience in an RPG around a "Do whatever the hell you want—with no risk or commitment" mentality.

**But of origin stories... There is something (good) in having a fixed, or at least partially fixed character origin. It allows the developer a guaranteed understanding of the PC's background. If they choose to use it (that's the big IF), then the game can have a much more (plausibly) reactive campaign & game world, one that is tailored to suit the PC. Rather than having an adult-infant who just suddenly appeared in the world, they can have a more defined personality that grew up in it.; who knows people in it, and who is remembered by them. The campaign itself can have aspect that is suited (or in some cases specifically unsuited) to their history, talents, and aptitudes.

 

[azimuth]

Tyranny is exactly the kind of flawed C&C-rich gem this site was built on.

This game would have been ignored in 1999 and it would be revered today, just like PST, Bloodlines, and Fallout 1. It's a niche game for a niche market, and it plays beautifully for that market -- better than almost any other RPG in recent years.

The fact that the lesson they learned was apparently "no more nonlinear games" is heartbreaking. Conquest mode was a beautiful feature. The (limited) nonlinearity is essential and the entire reason it's so good.

Where is the site for C&C-rich RPGs that enable real roleplaying? The world needs a site that supports games like this. It's so frustrating to me that nobody has Tyranny's back anywhere, even here.

 

[Iznaliu]

but don't design the core experience in an RPG around a "Do whatever the hell you want—with no risk or commitment" mentality.

That is a fun way to lose sales.

 

[Glop_dweller]

but don't design the core experience in an RPG around a "Do whatever the hell you want—with no risk or commitment" mentality.

That is a fun way to lose sales.

...And the alternative a profitable way to not make an RPG.

There is nothing wrong with making profitable games, and making games that many (or even most) people want to play... The problem is labeling it something it isn't; like advertising a game as a first person shooter, and it not having any guns or weapons in it. Would you appreciate a first person shooter that was 3D whack-a-mole with a Nerf™ bat? Or how about a dirt-bike motocross game that turned out to be an engine & tire repair simulation—set at a dirt-bike event, where the player has to fix the bikes as they break down.

It's 'bait & switch' IMO, andl that's not too far off my feeling when playing an RPG that presents nothing but a sandbox hack & stab theme park, under the advertised guise of being an RPG.

 

[l3loodAngel]

I personally always got tiresome with origin stories. I think they are the worse cockblock moments in video gaming. Always showing up to your eyes with forced dialogues to show you what this char or location is all about. Every time I started another run I get to force do same old things. It's this very long tutorial section.

What conquest mode allows to do are:

• Begin a story, not from amnesia or another level 1 reasons but right from where you want to start.
• More rememberable and involvement rather than a CGI or dumb training hub area.

What I would like to have in conquest mode:

• Few roguelike elements. Maybe the actual soldier, supplies numbers changing.
• Longer aftermath.

Wtf am I reading? If you don't like dialogues go play fucking skyrim, then you won't be forced to talk... But I guess you are already playing it (fucking retard).

First of all, I don't like to argue with trigger word people as yourself (just like SJW peps), thinking: If you don't like dialogues go play Skyrim. Just because I don't like them in forced origin starts in RPG. I'm playing RPG's by not doing all the quests, not trying to press every dialogue options If I don't feel the char I'm playing wouldn't be intrested doing those. In origin stories, everything is same after you start over and you don't read or listen them twice and becomes skippable sequences. I don't have anything against power games, this is how I play and this is my opinion.

Side note about your rage teen kid shit style posts. I think you have to do better. There is no clever sarcasm or intelligence in your shit posts. This act you pulling is not quirky at all. Unlike others.

Sarcasm? Even if I would use sarcasm only few people would understand it and even less than that would appreciate it. Intelligence? It's plain post downgraded to your level. Think of that post's level and content as my opinion of you rather than a reflection of my abilities.

Well I have a news flash for you brain gun, that in all RPG's everything is the same after you have done it before. What you are asking for is Hepler level console trash, where's only the story and where every console tard can begin at any point in the game, because nothing you have done previously matters or going to matter. In the grim darkness of far future there is only a voiced Hawke who is AAAwesome.

 

[Sentinel]

Wait, can you pick a 2nd class at any level after 1st level?

 

[Krzysiek]

Wait, can you pick a 2nd class at any level after 1st level?

Yes.

 

[Prime Junta]

Wait, can you pick a 2nd class at any level after 1st level?

I believe so.

 

[Crescent Hawk]

You know I really want to see that first person exploration rpg in this setting. As much as I adore choice in rpgs, I have started to realize you dont need all that much, if a game like Deus Ex does a good key choices well ( or the Iluusion of them), gameplay always trumps walls of text. UNless the story it Torment tier, but even then. For example Underrail does not shine in its Tranny level of reactivity but feels a much better setting to explore than the former.

For some reason I want these faggots to go mainstream a bit so maybe they could deliver a Bloodlines type game down the line. Especially since I dont expect anything from Bethesda or Twitcher faggots.

 

[Sentinel]

You know I really want to see that first person exploration rpg in this setting. As much as I adore choice in rpgs, I have started to realize you dont need all that much, if a game like Deus Ex does a good key choices well ( or the Iluusion of them), gameplay always trumps walls of text. UNless the story it Torment tier, but even then. For example Underrail does not shine in its Tranny level of reactivity but feels a much better setting to explore than the former.

For some reason I want these faggots to go mainstream a bit so maybe they could deliver a Bloodlines type game down the line. Especially since I dont expect anything from Bethesda or Twitcher faggots.

dude sex had shit gameplay even at the time tho

 

[cruelio]

The orchestrated ongoing media campaign for "products" a company wants people to "buy" still has an unclear purpose at press time. We will have more as this situation develops.

 

[azimuth]

You know I really want to see that first person exploration rpg in this setting. As much as I adore choice in rpgs, I have started to realize you dont need all that much, if a game like Deus Ex does a good key choices well ( or the Iluusion of them), gameplay always trumps walls of text. UNless the story it Torment tier, but even then. For example Underrail does not shine in its Tranny level of reactivity but feels a much better setting to explore than the former.

For some reason I want these faggots to go mainstream a bit so maybe they could deliver a Bloodlines type game down the line. Especially since I dont expect anything from Bethesda or Twitcher faggots.

This is the opposite of what I want, and I think the opposite of what "hardcore" CRPGs have been about for decades. Deus Ex is a shooter with very open gameplay / level design and some mostly superficial story choices ("does this character die now or later?").

We spent the 90s have wet dreams about games as reactive as Tyranny. Now that we got it, not even the RPG sites are interested. It's a sad time.

 

[Prime Junta]

You know I really want to see that first person exploration rpg in this setting. As much as I adore choice in rpgs, I have started to realize you dont need all that much, if a game like Deus Ex does a good key choices well ( or the Iluusion of them), gameplay always trumps walls of text. UNless the story it Torment tier, but even then. For example Underrail does not shine in its Tranny level of reactivity but feels a much better setting to explore than the former.

For some reason I want these faggots to go mainstream a bit so maybe they could deliver a Bloodlines type game down the line. Especially since I dont expect anything from Bethesda or Twitcher faggots.

dude sex had shit gameplay even at the time tho

Am I the only one who loved DX gameplay? Sneaking up on people to bop them on the head with a rubber baton, zap them with a cattle prod, shoot a silent poison dart into them, or pop them with a silenced pistol, stick a mine on their patrol route, headshot or gib them from allll the way across the map with a sniper rifle or rocket launcher... good times.

 

[aweigh]

uh

Conquest mode mostly determines which one of the 3 over-powered cool-down abilities the Fatebinder receives. Everything else about it is just... window-dressing.

A lot of Codexers don't grasp the differences between:

- branching content
- multiple resolutions
- binary design
- how these things relate (or don't) to things like character advancement, itemization and encounter design.

The simplest way to discern whether an RPG has "good" or "bad" c-and-c is simple:

- if the game could be reproduced as a choose-your-own-adventure style Novel, such as the ones from R.L. Stein where it says turn to page 93 if you decided to eat the chocolate cake, then it is bad C-and-C.

- ...if, however, aside from that type of A/B/C story states design there is additional agency then it is good C-and-C.

TL;DR:

good C-and-C: Arcanum

bad C-and-C: Tyranny

 

[Prime Junta]

Elaborate. Why is CYOA C&C bad and ... that other kind of C&C that you don't define good?

 

[aweigh]

story vs gameplay, etc.

games are about game play mechanics, etc.

an RPG is not supposed to be a CYOA novel, it is supposed to be a game first with things for the player to do that can only be done in the interactive medium.

choosing between story states does not constitute real C-and-C if it only affects something in the story and has little bearing on how the different game mechanics interact with each other.

your DX examples carries more weight as emergent choice and consequence (i.e. player agency) than the entirety of Tyranny's 3 million word count.

etc.

this has all been argued to death before in better threads...

 

[Prime Junta]

I don't accept your premises.

 

[aweigh]

i'm gonna quote myself

a combined template of mechanics that were originally cobbled together from the decaying corpse of the adventure game genre and then animated with the desire to reproduce dungeons and dragons in an electronic video game.

what the codex calls "c and c" is just adventure game mechanics, nothing new, and has little to do with what makes an RPG an RPG.

alternatively you can also go with what crescent hawk is writing about, i agree with everything he's written so far.

this has been discussed so much i can't muster the energy to express myself better than this. it all boils down to combatfags versus storyfags.

seriously.

CYOA style c-and-c isn't "bad", but it isn't "good" either. I cite Tyranny as "bad c-and-c" because it leans completely on this type and provides little of any other type of c-and-c.

fuck, tyranny doesn't even allow harming NPCs.

The reason I bring this up is because a lot of codexers, mostly new ones, think any type of c-and-c = RPG.

 

[Prime Junta]

CYOA style c-and-c isn't "bad", but it isn't "good" either.

That's more or less how I see it. It can be done well, poorly, or in-between, but in and of itself it's just one of several possible ways of writing in C&C. The Witchers 1 & 2 f.ex. do it pretty well.

 

[aweigh]

see, Witcher is problematic because I would not consider Witcher games to be "proper RPGs" because I don't consider branching content an inherently defining or necessary feature in the type of RPGs I enjoy.

but then, to play my own devil's advocate, I do consider Fallout: New Vegas to be one of the best examples of choice and consequence (as the Codex knows it) RPGs ever made.

I confuse myself then because both games feature things I normally dislike:

- non-RPG like combat (twitch based)
- majority of the game play systems aren't "numbers-driven", although F:NV fares much better in this regard
- lack of "proper" party-based resource management (juggling amount of smoke bombs or stimpaks DOES NOT constitute meaningful resource management)

...and yet I label one game "not a true RPG" and the other game "a fantastic example of the genre".

It all comes down to the degree or depth attributed to each part of the underlying systems and the degree to which they all interact with each other in order to produce systemic or emergent player agency. Codexian c-and-c is only a small, very small, portion of these elements.