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Obsidian's Pillars of Eternity [BETA RELEASED, GO TO THE NEW THREAD]

Roguey

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I look forward to any angst "small skill list with weighted advancement" will cause.
 

Chateaubryan

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Ranger's whole archetype is artificial anyway ; a warrior subclass with a vaguely different skillset and a furry fetish. I don't understand what justified the creation of a whole new class. Some kind of pandering, maybe.
 

Grunker

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I don't understand what justified the creation of a whole new class.

The reason for the ranger's invention was to give a home for Aragorn's lightly armored wandering loner archetype. None of its iterations were very inventive though, and so the ranger never really did find a home.
 

uaciaut

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Not necessarily, some people might just enjoy the concept of the ranger but not want to play a ranged character. I don't really like to have classes pigeon-holed into weapon types like that. The main feature of the ranger is having an animal bro, just design the class around coordinating with the pet and let the player choose how he fights.

Classes pigeon hole by definition and your vision of what a ranger should be might differ from another person's. People just don't seem comfortable with the fact that PoE ranger is not like d&d ranger and since it's something new/different it's obviously the devil.

I don't care if a class is designed to be ranged-only as long as it's not something useless like how the ranged classes of M&M used to be.
 

Chateaubryan

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Next thing they'll ask Sawyer is to provide Rangers with Dual-Wielding perks plus an optional black panther.
 

Zed

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I want certain classes to be weak and dependable on other party members but have exclusive abilities like healing or picking locks. I don't understand why this is seen as a problem and why class identities are being so muddled. Everything seems so combat-oriented. A class should be able to be so much more outside combat, with the exchange of being much less in combat. If I were to choose a class from PoE's rooster, I wouldn't even be thinking about class role and role-playing, but rather about how to get highest potential damage output or how many points into X and Y would be the most efficient, because that's what a class identity-less system leads to. That's why modern MMORPGs feel uniform and boring in comparison to old ones. Everyone is more or less able to do everything.
In Baldur's Gate I could pretty much succeed with anything part of my class' identity. Classes meant so much more, especially in terms of restrictions. I want specialists because that's what makes a party-based game interesting. This isn't Fallout where you want your one characters to be able to pass as much as possible. Here you'll want unique use of each character.

I like the ideas for combat log and character sheet info, but I don't think they should add mouse-over boxes with information other than HP (preferably just damaged state, e.g. "weak", "almost dead") and Name. Here's my take on it
tooltip.jpg
 

Zed

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class identities are being so muddled

Excidium As I was saying. ;)

Although to be fair, Zed isn't part of the crowd saying that the class roles are also too rigid and specialized, I think.
I'm complaining about the breadth of character specialization and how classes are lacking unique roles inspired by role-playing. Instead it feels like they go by combat efficiency ("everything must be good in combat"). I want the game to be as much as Baldur's Gate as possible, and as little as IWD2 as possible (because IWD2 sucks and the BG games are great). I mention IWD2 because that game had some "this class can do that other class' shit" stuff.
 
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Jasede

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I really get what Zed is saying here; it's like game is designed to make every class equally useful in combat, but that feels so... non-traditional.
 

Crooked Bee

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I really like the fact that there isn't going to be many skills. I'm still burnt out on crap like Space 1889 so the fewer skills there are, the more hopeful I am about their actual usefulness.

Everything seems so combat-oriented.

Well, this is a combat-oriented game, so what's the problem? In a combat-oriented game, I'd rather all classes were combat-oriented. Having additional combat flexibility for the Ranger doesn't hurt. Actually, PoE's system seems flexible enough that you can make both a party where different members plays similarly if you want, and a party where every member plays differently so that they depend on each other in the way you described it.

Or at least that's the way I see Sawyer's intention. Of course, we'll have to see how that turns out in practice.
 

Infinitron

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Enjoy the Revolution! Another revolution around the sun that is. Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
class identities are being so muddled

Excidium As I was saying. ;)

Although to be fair, Zed isn't part of the crowd saying that the class roles are also too rigid and specialized, I think.
I'm complaining about the breadth of character specialization and how classes are lacking unique roles inspired by role-playing rather than combat efficiency ("everything must be good in combat"). I want the game to be as much as Baldur's Gate as possible, and as little as IWD2 as possible (because IWD2 sucks and the BG games are great). I mention IWD2 because that game had some "this class can do that other class' shit" stuff.

I understand what you're saying.

I don't think all classes were good at combat in IWD2/3E though, so I'm not sure where you're getting that from. It's true that 3E had many more options for acquiring abilities traditionally associated with other classes (easy multiclassing, feats), but Warrior classes were still fundamentally better at hitting things than Rogue classes which were better at hittings than Mage classes etc. It was pretty easy to stay in your traditional role.

In PoE, all classes will be combat proficient (more than in IWD2), but at the same time, I don't think you'll be able to acquire the abilities of other classes as easily (because of no multiclassing and fewer class abilities available as talents).

The only exception is the skill system - I don't think PoE has the distinction between class and cross-class skills which helps keep the classes specialized in 3E.
 
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Grunker

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Warrior classes were still fundamentally better at hitting things than Rogue classes which were better at hittings than Mage classes etc.

Everything else you say is true. This, however, is very wrong. That's what Monte tried to achieve, but it's what the game actually is.
 

Shadowfang

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Ranger's whole archetype is artificial anyway ; a warrior subclass with a vaguely different skillset and a furry fetish. I don't understand what justified the creation of a whole new class. Some kind of pandering, maybe.
The same that spawned the Paladin. Cleric + Fighter = Paladin; Druid + Fighter = Ranger; Rogue + Sorcerer = Bard
I am a fan of hybrid classes, specially if its one man party, since they can be quite versatile and still have some flavor of their own.
 

Avellion

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I like the ideas for combat log and character sheet info, but I don't think they should add mouse-over boxes with information other than HP (preferably just damaged state, e.g. "weak", "almost dead") and Name. Here's my take on it
Personally I would argue more info could be given through mouseovers about an enemy if they are stuff your character can clearly see, like the enemy being crippled or trapped, or if you use some kind of detect magic spell on the enemy. But I agree that health state is much better than 99/134 HP and no to stuff like showing their values such as their armor class.
 
Unwanted

Captain Crusade

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I like the fact that they have unique races, but I think they are going overboard with them. New races typically means new character models. Instead of more races, they should just give more variations of each race, and deeper abilities and perks for each.

Reading about the lore makes me :lol: at the poor dumbfucks who are going ape shit over it, not realizing that all this lore is basically a pre game info dump and will hardly factor into gameplay at all. A game with such a small budget cannot help but be linear with very little C&C.
 

ZagorTeNej

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I understand what you're saying.

I don't think all classes were good at combat in IWD2/3E though, so I'm not sure where you're getting that from. It's true that 3E had many more options for acquiring abilities traditionally associated with other classes (in the form of feats), but Warrior classes were still fundamentally better at hitting things than Rogue classes which were better at hittings than Mage classes etc. It was pretty easy to stay in your traditional role.

In PoE, all classes will be combat proficient (more than in IWD2), but at the same time, I don't think you'll be able to acquire the abilities of other classes as easily (because of no multiclassing and fewer class abilities available as talents).

The only exception is the skill system - I don't think PoE has the distinction between class and cross-class skills which helps keep the classes specialized in 3E.

In 3E I wouldn't really say warriors were better at anything compared to any caster class, it was just a class you take a few levels at if you want weapon focus/specialization.
 

Infinitron

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Enjoy the Revolution! Another revolution around the sun that is. Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
In 3E I wouldn't really say warriors were better at anything compared to any caster class, it was just a class you take a few levels at if you want weapon focus/specialization.

Well, I was talking about low level physical combat proficiency. The high levels in D&D are a different story altogether, and not so relevant to PoE.

I like the fact that they have unique races, but I think they are going overboard with them.

wat
 

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