Obsidian's Pillars of Eternity [BETA RELEASED, GO TO THE NEW THREAD]

[Abelian]

I found this to be a nice commentary/lampshade on the tendency of player characters to be kleptomanic heroes:

Spoiler

And then you use it to gain experience in a quest

And one persistent player saw the "quest" all the way through:

[Yquog] planned to eat my party, but then I offered him my “dead things collection”: I was carrying a dead man, dead woman, and dead cat, all in a bag of holding.

 

[Answermancer]

havent seen or i have missed that dedicated interrupt stat.

have any link or more info on it?

Hmm, I found this thread:
http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/64964-update-70-new-year-project-update/#entry1407703

Concentration is similar to Concentration in 3E/3.5 (somewhat similar to Poise in Dark Souls) but it is for everyone, not just spellcasters. Concentration prevents you from playing hit reactions when you take damage. If you cannot maintain Concentration, you will play a hit reaction and your attack/reload/spell is interrupted. We're still defining the system (in fact, I was messing around with the formulae before I sat down), but that's the general idea.

In the new scheme, Might affects damage/healing whether it's a single application or over time. Penetration is something we may or may not use in conjunction with an inherent Penetration value on weapons and other attacks that cause damage. I'm leaning toward "not" right now.

He goes into it some more further into the thread, this was about the time the screenshot with the updated stats was revealed in an update:

Spoiler

At the time Perception primarily affected Interrupt, and he mentions in the thread they probably won't have Penetration on it so sounds like that will be Perception's primary function (unless they change it).

 

[hiver]

wait... perception affect interrupt but... dexterity affects... accuracy?

ffs... josh...

Someone should take over the naming of these stats and skills and just leave him to crunch numbers.
I mean - maaaybe we will get use to it but its sure going to cause a lot of head scratching through the start. DnD had many less then optimal things in it but atleast the main stats made sense.
This is like he is determined to repeat the AC - THC fuckup from BG games.

 

[eremita]

wait... perception affect interrupt but... dexterity affects... accuracy?

ffs... josh...

Someone should take over the naming of these stats and skills and just leave him to crunch numbers.
I mean - maaaybe we will get use to it but its sure going to cause a lot of head scratching through the start. DnD had many less then optimal things in it but atleast the main stats made sense.
This is like he is determined to repeat the AC - THC fuckup from BG games.

Well, I guess when an artificial rules set stops being intuitive completely, simulationist awakes in all of us...

 

[eremita]

I was basically beat into reinstalling BG2 by last two pages of this thread. An I'm gonna play as mage/ fighter/mage dual class of course. Speaking of mage duels in BG2, does anybody know (Roguey?), who was responsible for implementation back then? Who was "mastermind" behind BG2 mechanics in general? And where is that person now?

 

[Answermancer]

wait... perception affect interrupt but... dexterity affects... accuracy?

ffs... josh...

Someone should take over the naming of these stats and skills and just leave him to crunch numbers.

Yeah, I don't think he really cares what goes where as long as they are all close to equally valuable. I bet they'd change it if people complained, they changed the Int=damage thing after all and created the Might stat. And I suspect they still will move things around between stats still, there's many months to go yet.

 

[hiver]

If i remember correctly it was Josh that talked how counter-intuitive were different stats in BG games. Maybe he should be reminded of it... although this is a matter of nomenclature, instead of stats themselves.
Maybe it looks worse then it is because we are use to old systems.

An I'm gonna play as mage/ fighter/mage dual class

Mage-fighter-thief maybe?

Thats my favorite, because it lets me not tag along some thief just to open locks and disarm traps. And it increases the difficulty a bit on the side, while letting you wield all weapons. I wanted to try some other triple class but by that time i knew every word, every pixels by heart so i never tried.

 

[eremita]

If i remember correctly it was Josh that talked how counter-intuitive were different stats in BG games. Maybe he should be reminded of it... although this is a matter of nomenclature, instead of stats themselves.
Maybe it looks worse then it is because we are use to old systems.

An I'm gonna play as mage/ fighter/mage dual class

Mage-fighter-thief maybe?

Thats my favorite, because it lets me not tag along some thief just to open locks and disarm traps. And it increases the difficulty a bit on the side, while letting you wield all weapons. I wanted to try some other triple class but by that time i knew every word, every pixels by heart so i never tried.

The thing is, you're not gonna hit those epic levels of mage class with multi-class (although playing as M-F-T must be fun for soloing for sure), but if you dual-class to mage at 8. level (with Fighter, you already have solid THAC0, good amount of HP and more attacks per round), you can still hit max level of mage (in ToB)...

 

[hiver]

You can with that build too. (hint: you get all xp from thief specific things while there is no need to have a thief character) Especially if you play ToB too. And no need to dual class. Just multiclass from the start.

 

[eremita]

You can with that build too. (hint: you get all xp from thief specific things while there is no need to have a thief character) Especially if you play ToB too. And no need to dual class. Just multiclass from the start.

But you mean in solo run only, right? I might give it a try in the future, but I like having a party. I mean, in solo run, there's a lot of micromanaging that's not really fun for me. The point is, I'm not really a munchkin or purely gameplayfag (nothing wrong with, just not my thing).

 

[hiver]

Nah, i never liked playing that game solo. Seems pointless to me except as some kind of ego trip. I cant fathom how some people had the will and stamina to backstab through that whole game. I would rather bite my legs off.
The game is made to play and is most fun with a party.

But you can make a smaller party with that build, if you want to. The player, Viconia for priest spells, Minsc (for blunt weapons - maces) + 1 more, Edwin for OP extra mage, or Valigar if you want an archer...) - for example.
More then enough XP anyway. You just advance more slowly through beginning if you go with full party but since the game is too easy anyway, especially if you know it - thats actually a plus.

Not that you have to do it. Just sayin..

 

[eremita]

Nah, i never liked playing that game solo. Seems pointless to me except as some kind of ego trip. I cant fathom how some people had the will and stamina to backstab through that whole game. I would rather bite my legs off.
The game is made to play and is most fun with a party.

But you can make a smaller party with that build, if you want to. The player, Viconia for priest spells, Minsc (for blunt weapons - maces) + 1 more, Edwin for OP extra mage, or Valigar if you want an archer...) - for example.
More then enough XP anyway. You just advance more slowly through beginning if you go with full party but since the game is too easy anyway, especially if you know it - thats actually a plus.

Not that you have to do it. Just sayin..

Wait, I'm not sure if we're talking about the same thing -so you're saying that I can hit the mage's level cap with multi-class (not just high level abilities)? I completed SoA + ToB as Fighter/Mage and I didn't hit it, but maybe I wasn't that thorough and I certainly had full party... If that's true, I might actually give it try instead of dual-classing to mage...

BTW, Viconia and Valygar/ Minsc and Edwin are gonna kill each other... Tried it myself. I'll take Viconia, Edwin and Korgan. Or I might even try that Dorn guy from EE (Yes, I bought those and I'm only slightly ashamed).

 

[Raapys]

Nah, i never liked playing that game solo. Seems pointless to me except as some kind of ego trip. I cant fathom how some people had the will and stamina to backstab through that whole game. I would rather bite my legs off.

You don't backstab, you spellcast. Soloing the game with a sorcerer is actually easier and progresses more quickly than with a party shortly after you reach level 12 and get skull trap and other goodies. Only takes Robe of Vecna, though Staff of Magi is there for the taking if you need cakewalk-mode.

 

[hiver]

eremita All i remember is i had all the spell levels and all the spells. Less then Edwin ofcourse but he is a walking cheat anyway.
You can take any party without them killing eachother, with that ring of charisma. Those were my choices. Of course, you can take other NPCs or just make a whole party yourself, but then loose banter and quests of companions. You can also let individual companions tag along only until you do their quests and then sack them. etc. (Viconia stuff is in Underdark so...)

You don't backstab, you spellcast. Soloing the game with a sorcerer is actually easier and progresses more quickly than with a party shortly after you reach level 12 and get skull trap and other goodies. Only takes Robe of Vecna, though Staff of Magi is there for the taking if you need cakewalk-mode.

yeah, i was just commenting on the most boring way to solo. Its not like i thought that you can solo only with a rogue, but thnx.

btw, whats the point of making the game a cakewalk?

 

[Zero Credibility]

But to requote Josh

I often felt like I shouldn't be designing games for the BG audience because I loathed the NPCs in BG/BG2/TotSC so much.

I know he was far from the only person responsible for that particular train wreck, but still - someone that was (even if it was for just the last year of development) in charge of a team that gave us NPCs of NWN2 OC should really be more careful of what comes out of his mouth.

 

[eremita]

eremita All i remember is i had all the spell levels and all the spells. Less then Edwin ofcourse but he is a walking cheat anyway.
You can take any party without them killing eachother, with that ring of charisma.

Yeah, I wanna hit the cap with mage...

Wut? They don't fight each other with party leader having high charisma? Never heard about it before and all I could find now were just speculations. Is it written down in detail somewhere (how much char i need to prevent/ lower the chance)? I really can't find anything specific about it. I'll keep digging.

 

[Raapys]

btw, whats the point of making the game a cakewalk?

Well, most of the mobs are just trash mobs. Stuff that no one really have a problem with and that doesn't require any particular tactic to defeat. Being able to wipe that stuff away with single wave of your hand isn't necessarily a bad thing; it lets you progress quicker towards actual interesting stuff.

Due to cheesy design, the actual challenges come from the boss battles in BG2, usually because they have some sort of immunities or special abilities that don't fall in line with the ruleset. And those are still challenging even with a ridiculously powerful sorcerer, since his power comes from versatility and not one single all-powerful win-game spell(with the possible exception of Summon Planetar/Mordekainen's Sword, but even those are of limited/no use in some boss battles). Thus the challenge is to combine spells/debuffs/summons to overcome the fight, which in my mind is fun/interesting. It's like having a one-man army, but one that's only as effective as your tactics and choice of spells.

 

[hiver]

eremita
You can get the ring that gives 18 charisma, during the early quest in the circus tent, where Aery... Aerie? is. Equip it and no more fights between companions although they banter.
- oh yeah, viconia can wield maces so you dont need a fighter for that... but minsc can dual wield them so...
There is also that dwarf fighter...

- i would strongly recommend getting the... unfinished business (?) mod too.


Raapys, for me the game is most interesting with the party, while being relatively low level, coming up with combinations of different classes and their individual skills to overcome fights. + banter + companion quests...

 

[Raapys]

Yah, I like that part too, but having played the game lots of times over the years I guess it became kinda repetitive after a while, given the lack of depth for classes other than casters. Also, since no other game really offers a similarly rewarding experiencing playing a caster, it's become my go-to game whenever I feel the need to play a mage-type.

 

[hiver]

Well yeah. For that I do the different kinds of parties, trying out all the possible combinations, like triple multiclass or playing with druid shapeshifter PC and other obscure sub classes, mods, etc.
Though i think i spent those too.

 

[eremita]

eremita
You can get the ring that gives 18 charisma, during the early quest in the circus tent, where Aery... Aerie? is. Equip it and no more fights between companions although they banter.
- oh yeah, viconia can wield maces so you dont need a fighter for that... but minsc can dual wield them so...
There is also that dwarf fighter...

Found this, so I dunno: http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/5940/can-a-good-party-have-edwin-or-will-he-walk

Brude said:
This may be anecdotal, but one thing I've noticed is that if you have a high CHA, party members are less likely to bicker. Personally, I've never had an instance where two guys drop group and throw down and I'm in the habit of carrying mixed aligned parties.

Don't know if this works in BG2 like in BG1. I also used mixed parties but is just a few of scripted unavoidable conflicts (Minsc + Edwin, Keldorn + Viconia, Aerie + Korgan, CN Anomen + Keldorn / Aerie) so maybe your groups, although mixed, didn't have one of these combos - despite having a high Cha leader Keldorn picked on Viconia minutes after adding her to the group iirc.

But it's ok, I don't wanna Minsc, Keldorn anyway in this playthrough. Although I would like to know how it works just out of curiosity...

 

[hiver]

I told you how it works. - I never take Keldorn because the character is an imbecile. But Minsc and Boo are quite indispensable, especially with Vicy and Edwin = great banter.

 

[LivingOne]

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/65240-combat-demonstration/

We still have more work to do before we show combat in-depth. We're doing regular combat playtests to work out a lot of issues. Specifically, the pacing, which had been too fast before, has been slowed down to a more IE-appropriate speed. Additionally, we have our Interrupt/Concentration system in, so characters will play hit reactions if they fail their concentration check. Our VFX artists and audio guys are also working through a large list of effects for combat (spells, hits, footsteps, etc.).

 

[LivingOne]

I don't remember all of the modifiers off the top of my head, but all armors have some sort of damage type weakness to them. Mail's big weakness is crush damage. It may also have a shock modifier, but I don't remember for certain.

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/65126-thoughts-on-damage-types/page-3

 

[Kalin]

So guys, what is Tim Cain up to? All I see is Yoshi Sawyah spinning in his chair all day long. What about the Stronghold? Last I heard it sounded pretty sweet (looked midget-sized though, but that is the fault of the artists). Can the player send out companions to rape and pillage, raiding neighbours while using the Stronghold as a base? Can you squeeze the peasants dry, and ransom prisoners for juicy loot? These are the kind of questions that matter! And hey, what about those snazzy racial traits and their roles in solving quests? That concept sounded really cool, so what is happening on that front?

In short: demand Timothy Cain update justice!