Obsidian's Pillars of Eternity [BETA RELEASED, GO TO THE NEW THREAD]

[MetalCraze]

So was RT combat with cooldowns blamed on Evil Publisher yet?

 

[Vault Dweller]

A CRPG without rest is not a true RPG. Period.

Then you will like our CRPG, Project Eternity, which has resting.

Ok.


So there are cooldowns AND rest? What the fuck is he saying. Just make a decent page length post Sawyer.

Rest to select active spells. Cooldowns to determine how often you can cast them.

 

[Jaesun]

Possibly Retarded

 

[Excidium]

It's not an RPG if my wounds don't magically disappear after a good night of sleep

 

[Grunker]

It's not an RPG if my wounds don't magically disappear after a good night of sleep

amen brutha

 

[J_C]

Not even resting guys. Its spam your best spells per battle.

Yes, because in the Vancian magic system, it is not like that. Oh wait, it is. Battle - spam magic, - rest for 8 hours - battle - magic - rest etc. What the hell do you want? They just eliminate the resting after every battle aspect of the game.

I asked Matt on Facebook btw, and he told me that we will see the interviewin the next Matt Chat.

 

[evdk]

Possibly Retarded

Certainly homo.

Could you maybe return to your old Commander Vanilla Ice avatar, so I can filter you out better?

 

[Jasede]

I for one love Vancian in CRGPs and believe the "spam - rest - fight" trifecta is a result of poor random encounter design. Resting should be dangerous, lethal even if done in a dangerous place. Monsters should set traps and possibly even ambushes if you chose to rest mid-dungeon.

No CRPG does this well, though I do think resting is suitably dangerous in RoA. Now if only it'd spawn more monsters and have them prepare traps in response to your dungeon assault that'd be perfect.

Or you could limit resting by using time as a ressource- one year, and if you don't finish by then it's game over. Most quests should be timed and you're faced with a tough choice- struggle on, low on spells or risk losing the quest and time?

 

[Scruffy]

Not even resting guys. Its spam your best spells per battle.

Yes, because in the Vancian magic system, it is not like that. Oh wait, it is. Battle - spam magic, - rest for 8 hours - battle - magic - rest etc. What the hell do you want? They just eliminate the resting after every battle aspect of the game.

I asked Matt on Facebook btw, and he told me that we will see the interviewin the next Matt Chat.

i kept going on to see how long i could last. i had the OPTION to make things easier by resting, but now it's not an option, it's just easy.

 

[Grunker]

I for one love Vancian in CRGPs and believe the "spam - rest - fight" trifecta is a result of poor random encounter design. Resting should be dangerous, lethal even if done in a dangerous place. Monsters should set traps and possibly even ambushes if you chose to rest mid-dungeon.

I fucking love the way Chaos Chronicles will handle this. You can't save in a dungeon (have to be in town), so using spells sparingly becomes a key importance, but no so sparingly you end up losing the fight, because you can't reload.

So the Vancian spell system will actually work, because you can't just reload.

 

[Grunker]

I don't recall if it is in the RPG Codex Interview or in the interview they gave to that German site.

Not gonna search up 'cause I can't be bothered. Maybe VentilatorOfDoom or Cynic can.

 

[Infinitron]

Again, I think people are too quick to fall at Josh's feet because of a few snarky one liners. I want to know how these out-of-combat cooldowns will work.

 

[Excidium]

I fucking love the way Chaos Chronicles will handle this. You can't save in a dungeon (have to be in town), so using spells sparingly becomes a key importance, but no so sparingly you end up losing the fight, because you can't reload.

So the Vancian spell system will actually work, because you can't just reload.

Vancian spellcasting is so shitty you need some retarded design like that to make it work.

 

[Infinitron]

Stick to your guns, devs! http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/60905-stick-to-your-guns-devs/

No, he's not talking about cooldowns, lootlists or level scaling.

 

[Gozma]

Don't go to all this trouble and use another system.

Having an endurance element to combat can contextualize trash fights into something better. A fight with crappy cut and paste enemies gets a lot more interesting if it's in the context of having to conserve resources for a long haul. If it isn't you just pop all your best cooldowns/cast everything then rest.

Now, it's possible that would free up the design to eliminate trash fights completely, and every fight in the game is now a unique and cunningly designed set piece. But that is oddly not how it's been done - instead the leave in the mindless playtime-bloating trash fights even after putting in mechanics that completely de-contextualize them

 

[Vault Dweller]

I for one love Vancian in CRGPs and believe the "spam - rest - fight" trifecta is a result of poor random encounter design. Resting should be dangerous, lethal even if done in a dangerous place. Monsters should set traps and possibly even ambushes if you chose to rest mid-dungeon.

I fucking love the way Chaos Chronicles will handle this. You can't save in a dungeon (have to be in town), so using spells sparingly becomes a key importance, but no so sparingly you end up losing the fight, because you can't reload.

So the Vancian spell system will actually work, because you can't just reload.

Reloading is a minor issue. In fact it becomes an issue only if the spell system is sufficiently complex (and preparing the right spells actually matters, which isn't the case in most games). The main question is 'can you rest anywhere you want?'

 

[Jasede]

!Gozma Gotta get those 40 hours in somehow.

 

[Jaesun]

Here is something I would like to hear opinions on. Take the following circumstance, which is not uncommon in the IE games and would be somewhat similar to the KotC "campsite" system in circumstances were you are not locked off from backtracking to a campsite.

* You are in a location where resting is either prohibited or extraordinarily likely to result in an encounter. You do not know the location of the next campsite/safe resting area.
* You have cast many of your spells and the ones that remain are not entirely appropriate for the encounters you are now facing.
* Because you came from an area where you could rest and are not locked in the location, you have a cleared (by you) path back to the area where you can safely rest.
* It will take you three minutes of real time to walk back to the camp, maybe thirty seconds to reconfigure spells, five seconds to rest, and another three minutes of real time to walk back to where you had left off.
* Because you killed everything between you and the campsite, there are no threats between you and the campsite.

In this circumstance, what is good about the experience of walking back to the campsite?

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/60875-merged-cooldown-thread/page__st__300#entry1220117

 

[Excidium]

Vancian is a shitty spellcasting system

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/60875-merged-cooldown-thread/page__st__300#entry1220117

Agreed

 

[wormix]

The dungeon is badly designed if it allows you to exploit the resting system like that. "Nothing" is the wrong answer.

Besides who thought that infinite rest camp sites were a good thing in KotC?

 

[FeelTheRads]

In this circumstance, what is good about the experience of walking back to the campsite?

Let's take one situation which is bad and then pretend everything about the system is bad because of that.
Of course, it's much better to wait for the cooldowns to end. Wait, what, no waiting? Install refill after combat then maybe? Brilliant.

 

[Gozma]

Well I mean there is that obvious solution - every fight should be a cunningly designed and interesting set piece, with no shitfights whatsoever. If an RPG is made that way I'll be pretty fucking surprised! Get Sawyer to say that they'll do that.

 

[Infinitron]

Here is something I would like to hear opinions on. Take the following circumstance, which is not uncommon in the IE games and would be somewhat similar to the KotC "campsite" system in circumstances were you are not locked off from backtracking to a campsite.

* You are in a location where resting is either prohibited or extraordinarily likely to result in an encounter. You do not know the location of the next campsite/safe resting area.
* You have cast many of your spells and the ones that remain are not entirely appropriate for the encounters you are now facing.
* Because you came from an area where you could rest and are not locked in the location, you have a cleared (by you) path back to the area where you can safely rest.
* It will take you three minutes of real time to walk back to the camp, maybe thirty seconds to reconfigure spells, five seconds to rest, and another three minutes of real time to walk back to where you had left off.
* Because you killed everything between you and the campsite, there are no threats between you and the campsite.

In this circumstance, what is good about the experience of walking back to the campsite?

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/60875-merged-cooldown-thread/page__st__300#entry1220117

I answered: http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/60875-merged-cooldown-thread/page__st__320#entry1220166

 

[Vault Dweller]

Sawyer: In this circumstance, what is good about the experience of walking back to the campsite?

You'd be surprised, Josh. People can't get enough of that shit, apparently.

Let's take one situation which is bad and then pretend everything about the system is bad because of that.

Here is how the Vancian system works in RPGs. It's either "rest, empty your spellbook at the monsters, rest again" or go back to the nearest rest location. I'm not sure which approach is worse, actually.

Of course, it's much better to wait for the cooldowns to end.

It probably is, if the cooldown times are well balanced and you have to think of when to use what spell instead of spamming them non-stop.

 

[Jasede]

Sawyer: In this circumstance, what is good about the experience of walking back to the campsite?

You'd be surprised, Josh. People can't get enough of that shit, apparently.

Oh god!